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Old September 29th, 2014, 03:28 AM   #1
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Sensor damage?

So, one of my cameras is showing a line of coloured dots towards the centre of frame. Attached is a photograph of a wall, with contrast turned up to make the problem obvious. The pattern is clearer on some backgrounds than others, and the dots sometimes turn black instead of red/pink when they're against dark backgrounds.

Has anyone seen this sort of pattern? If so, what's your diagnosis? Dead pixels? Hot pixels? Or damage to one of the filters instead of the sensor itself?

Going to visit a repair shop tomorrow. Fingers crossed that (a) they can fix it; (b) it will actually cost me less than the price of a new camera body to fix it...
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Sensor damage?-_37c7105_sensormark.png  
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Old September 29th, 2014, 03:55 AM   #2
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Re: Sensor damage?

Disco laser light damage I reckon.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:02 AM   #3
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Re: Sensor damage?

Laser light damage by the looks of it.

I've faced my FS700 straight in to halogen disco lights without issues. But only recently discovered LASERS can damage the sensor. Thank god I haven't voluntarily faced lasers yet.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:08 AM   #4
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Re: Sensor damage?

Yep. one of the EA-50 guys had exactly the same issues and it was laser damage from the DJ's rig.

Bet it will be a new sensor at the least! I had a wedding a few weeks ago with lasers so I positioned myself right beside the unit and made sure that the beam couldn't get my camera. You also have to be careful with any other reflectors in the room too (mine had mirrors so I had to be extra careful.

Was that the 5D Adrian??? Canon repairs are not exactly cheap ..maybe invest in a new body and stick that one on eBay saying "needs repair" if the sensor cost is really high ..it's amazing what people will pay for cameras that need repair on eBay

I guess an insurance claim is not covered on your policy???

Chris
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Old September 29th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #5
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Re: Sensor damage?

Make a claim from the DJ. For not sticking to the laser use rules.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 02:59 PM   #6
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Re: Sensor damage?

I hate to see how much a Sony A7s sensor is to replace or any recent FF sensor as many cameras are heading towards the FF size for 4K. I really don't think that laser damage is covered by any guarantee. I feel that in the very near future either lasers will be banned in any social gathering ( eye damage risk ) or the DJ will have to not only cough up sensor repairs but also have to face the bride for a lengthy explanation. A nice little clause would be needed in the contract stipulating exactly that. Yes, in the video contract. If the bride/groom would be made aware of that beforehand, then she/he must demand the DJ SHUT OFF them lasers. If the lasers are still active and if they damage the sensors, then a copy of the repair estimate can be forwarded to the DJ and the lawyer. Would a videographer go straight up to the DJ and say " If your fancy lasers damage my sensor, will you pay for the damage ?" I don't think so. What if the videographer makes the DJ SIGN a declaration of responsibility to that effect, will he sign ? perhaps not. But we can, by choice, accept the risk and have no one to blame but ourselves or do something beforehand to avoid it altogether.
We don't have to accept it.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 04:03 PM   #7
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Re: Sensor damage?

Despite having seen a bad DJ using a lot of lasers pointed at guests (and our cameras) just this summer, I totally forgot to change our contract so we can refuse to work around them.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 04:08 PM   #8
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Re: Sensor damage?

How strong are the lasers?! Are these different from the usual disco lights?

Insane that DJs can destroy your equipment.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 04:56 PM   #9
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Re: Sensor damage?

Sensor damage has been in several forum discussions for quite some time now. Some production companies refuse to do work in that environment, and around these parts they sue quite easily for anything they can sue for. Them lasers may be certified safe for eyes as short term bursts but sensors are not created like eyes and perhaps are far more sensitive to their short wavelengths. I hear that even photographers are aware of this. I can bet my lens shade that many DJ's know this.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 09:11 PM   #10
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Re: Sensor damage?

Just for interest's sake, the repair shop are examining it now. If it's a clean, it's $70. If sensir replacement, $1500.
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Old September 30th, 2014, 02:51 AM   #11
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Re: Sensor damage?

Those prices seem steep? I've cleaned my EA50 sensor using a swab - takes less than a minute. Changing a sensor is obviously going to be more expensive but it's just a single electronic component - I find it hard to believe it would take an engineer more than an hour to do this, as in most cases components like this are 'mounted' to facilitate easy replacement, so is the high cost simply the part? - Jeez that's half the price of the camera!

Here's the sensor - 8 screws and a ribbon connector:http://www.togtech.com/camera-dissec...s-5d-mark-iii/

In most of the venues I film in the couple never even meet the DJ prior to the day so it would be up to me liaising with the venue which would be a pain.

Could you really see yourself refusing to film an evening reception and first dance because the DJ has a laser? Having just started to use a Sony A7s I am worried however.
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Old September 30th, 2014, 10:25 AM   #12
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Re: Sensor damage?

Changing the sensor itself is the easy part. To get to the sensor and putting everything back together is what is time consuming. I did a sensor change on a Canon 20d ( youtube step by step )and I tell you, it took me all day and part of the evening, and I still had a few tiny screws left over. You also need the right tools and lots of patience. The camera back, lcd screen, 4 circuit boards, bottom and side plate removal, battery compartment and top plate removal, not to mention 8 solder joints and the famous "evil" screw that lurks where you cannot get a good grip at it. Without removing that screw, you are literally "screwed". as it keeps the sensor cage in place. Oh, there are 4 tiny shims that align the sensor, losing any of them will render the sensor out-of-focus.
The sensor is not really cheap, for the 20D was $120 from Canon, that's when they were selling them to the public but no more nowadays.
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Old September 30th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #13
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Re: Sensor damage?

Fair point Arthur!
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Old September 30th, 2014, 02:29 PM   #14
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Re: Sensor damage?

Parts are not cheap, and are getting harder to source from what I've noticed.

And doing a teardown on a modern electronic device, resolving the issue, ending up with no "spare screws" (he he he, yeah, know THAT one!), and a fully functional device... is not your typical "consumer" task. I've got 30+ years doing repairs, and each new "baroqueen" device is a new adventure...

There is a reason that repairs are expensive, though I'd argue they are excessively priced sometimes, and when you can ONLY source repair from the manufacturer, it's a tad monopolistic... I thoroughly understand "warranty" should be MFR ONLY, but once the warranty runs, there should be parts available to "independent" and individual "fixers"!
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Old September 30th, 2014, 06:09 PM   #15
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Re: Sensor damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Rush View Post
Those prices seem steep?
Well, I did get a second quote for $1,900 (the earlier one was $1,427). Neither of these were from Canon. It was also mentioned that, if I sent the camera to Canon, they might be able to do "pixel compensation repair", whatever that is.

I've asked for other quotes. Will edit and update this post if they come in.

(Update: Three other stores declined to quote without seeing the camera first. Another store said, "Show us the camera. $50 for the quote regardless of whether you go ahead with the repair or not. All seems a bit dodgy to me -- I feel the frustration brides sometimes feel, "Can't you just tell me your prices straight?" But anyway...)

By the way, I found an interesting article on dealing with dead pixels in FCP: http://provideocoalition.com/industr...ciated_feature

Last edited by Adrian Tan; October 1st, 2014 at 12:42 AM.
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