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Old October 19th, 2015, 07:41 AM   #16
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Re: What gives with these lights

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Pete I really think you are worrying too much about this.......The scenes will just look blue or red on the video, just as they did on the day- job done!

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That's what I would think too Roger, that's how it was and someone said its pointless trying to white balance in those lighting conditions, yes, that's right, you cant. I've a PMW320 and when I come across lighting like that I just select the indoor preset white balance and you know, it turns out not so bad but I would also use my video light. (LED-312A)
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Old October 19th, 2015, 09:21 AM   #17
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Re: What gives with these lights

For the first dance, cake, speeches and first dance I'll shine a light on them from a light stand. I don't like the look of a light straight on from the camera so I think it gives a better look. Usually it's enough light to off set the colored lights from where they are dancing.

I usually take the dancing footage either as it is or shine those lights on the dance floor. If it's dimmed enough and doesn't take away from the atmosphere of the evening I've never had anyone complain.

Last edited by Daniel Latimer; October 19th, 2015 at 10:38 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 10:02 AM   #18
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Re: What gives with these lights

One thing I never do with strong coloured lighting is to shine my white light to counter it. All it does is create a mixed lighting effect - I have coloured filters to ensure my lighting is consistent with the room. When it cycles between different colours I'll use something like orange or not bother with the light at all.

I've had extreme lighting situations, couple of times with a strong pinkish colour. White balance is pointless here; for normal lighting conditions its the golden rule, but for indoor lighting, trying to force the video to natural skin tones and colour seems to me to rob the image of some of the rooms ambience. Now okay the blue is perhaps a little too much ambience for taste, but if that's how it was, that's how I record it. Lets not pretend the lighting was something else. I personally don't mind a bit of colour in my image - DJ lighting may not be to every person's taste, but often there's no lighting at all and I find that more an issue than strong coloured lighting.

The only issue I see in lighting is if the camera records it in a way that is not consistent to how the room looks or if there are technical problems like banding and/or posterization in the image.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 10:39 AM   #19
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Re: What gives with these lights

My lights are usually set to 3200 not daylight. I didn't explain that well. It matches closely enough to the actual lights in the room and offsets the colored LEDs.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 05:59 AM   #20
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Re: What gives with these lights

Theres no way to WB out the colour but I find if you use a daylight temp of 6000-7000k it stops it being so bright and neon.

Watch strictly come dancing on the BBC and you will see they get the same problem.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 08:28 AM   #21
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Re: What gives with these lights

Here is a post I went on about these cheap LED lights. I hate these lights

It's just laziness. DJ's buy these cheap lights, make the whole room red/blue/green and think nothing of what it does to the photographer, videographer, or the product they produce. Not all DJ's are this naive, but some are.

I also have a clause in my contract as well as one in my planning sheet. And I'll walk right up to a DJ and let him know that if he doesn't include white light on the dance floor at least, it's going to affect my video pictures. Sometimes they care, and sometimes they just blow me off. If that doesn't work, I crank my Frezzi's and keep his lights to my back at least.

Again, to make the whole room blue is a lame attempt to reproduce something seen on the bachelorette tv show. I still hate these lights.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 09:14 AM   #22
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Re: What gives with these lights

This is a well documented problem with Sony cameras which they seem unwilling or incapable of fixing. Best work around is to use white balance above 5600k and adjust colour in post
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Old October 27th, 2015, 11:06 AM   #23
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Re: What gives with these lights

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it's just laziness. DJ's buy these cheap lights, make the whole room red/blue/green and think nothing of what it does to the photographer, videographer, or the product they produce. Not all DJ's are this naive, but some are.
Yeah, but, let's face it... most are.

I still DJ 30 weddings a year and bought wirelessly controlled up lighting a few years ago. That means I can CHANGE the color on the fly. So, during speeches and the first dance, the entire room turns white instead of plum or, last week, dark red.

Doing video I've had issues with this sort of lighting and lasers... so many lasers. Dots everywhere.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 12:56 PM   #24
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Re: What gives with these lights

I love it when we dig up old threads like the one linked to. Mainly because since that one was started, LED brightness has gone up drastically. Don;t blame the DJs for using cheap lighting. I'm heading off to pantomime in a couple of weeks and going through the technical specs I'm organising, the LD is spending a huge budget on LED moving lights. Three grand a pop and he has loads of them. Lighting designers in professional shows and TV simply love them because for them, the ability to throw huge quantities of saturated light is a bonus. The DJs now have access to modest priced kit that can do the same, and I have to admit that I love the effect. In one show recently, at the last minute I had to record the show, and the blue scenes were horrible. However, nobody had asked the lighting people to set lighting for the video, and as it had taken days to rehearse, changing it simply to make the video better was out of the question.

Is the video more important than the DJ's set? In a wedding it's always a clash between people who think their contribution is the critical one. If the bride and groom (or in my case, the client) are happy - then that's it.

A nice get out clause in the contract just in case seems a good move, but don't lose sleep on the lighting. Unless the event is so well planned that all the contributors meet and talk before hand, then just do what you can.

Saturated light is here to stay, and getting brighter month on month. Why does nobody ever blame the camera manufacturers who seem to ignore the problem.

In TV and Theatre, it's common practice to give the lighting designer a monitor during rehearsals so these issues can be seen and tweaked before lighting is plotted. If you watch things like strictly - you will see the light on the people is always controlled and the saturated stuff used with great care. They don't just make everything blue. They could, but the vision people talk to the lighting people. In a wedding this is impossible.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 01:43 PM   #25
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Re: What gives with these lights

Paul, you shouldn't blame video guys for being concerned about video. It's our job to be concerned. It doesn't mean we think we are the most important people in the Wedding, it just means we are concerned about doing our job as well as we can.

Issues that can cause us problems should be discussed as only through shared experiences and know how, some solution can be found or at the very least an acceptance of the problem. It may seem like moaning and in some ways it is, but if this was a conversation down the pub, perhaps you'd be more forgiving and take it in its proper context.

That said, I'm not one of those whose bothered by the lighting. Yep even those dots thrown about on people doesn't really faze me. Personally I can't see the issue. DJ lighting is what it is, don't fight it, don't try and make it something it is not. If the camera struggles with it, do the best you can. Really we are talking dance footage. I've seen too many videographers struggle with lighting and forget to capture some good dance floor footage. I prefer DJ lighting whatever weird form it takes to no lighting at all. So what if they're dots. You're filming people dancing the boogie not having a romantic moment to be captured in cinematic glory.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 02:03 PM   #26
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Re: What gives with these lights

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You're filming people dancing the boogie not having a romantic moment to be captured in cinematic glory.
I agree about the dancing part, colored lights are just a part of it and here I don't care what color they use but the most important part, the first dance, is also lit in harsh red only, or blue only, and that is just plain horrible to watch. Only for that part I always ask the DJ if he can add some white light or at least cycle true different color lights but that is most of the time not being considered and they use red because "it looks so nice".

Talking about DJ's, in my 10 years of doing weddings I never encountered a female DJ, why would that be? Who knows they would have better taste then men when it comes to selecting lights for the dancing part :)
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Old October 27th, 2015, 02:16 PM   #27
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Re: What gives with these lights

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That said, I'm not one of those whose bothered by the lighting. Yep even those dots thrown about on people doesn't really faze me. Personally I can't see the issue.
Well, the lasers can wreck your sensor, but sometimes they take it too far.

I couldn't find the worst shot, but to give you some idea...
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Old October 27th, 2015, 03:07 PM   #28
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Re: What gives with these lights

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Well, the lasers can wreck your sensor, but sometimes they take it too far.

I couldn't find the worst shot, but to give you some idea...
Lasers are a different matter as they can damage my cameras. In such cases I never shoot into them. There's also lighting that can cause other issues with the camera like banding and posterisation which is a concern to me.

However aside from avoiding laser damage to my cameras, general lighting such as in the image you'be shown is less a concern. As long as my camera reproduces what the lighting was, I never see a problem. Even 1st dance lighting - well to be honest the photographers and guests camera flashes cause more disruption to the 1st dance filming for me than bad lighting.

Aside from lasers and a rare case where the venues lighting and not the DJs caused some of my cameras to have black lines scrolling down the screen, I've never once found issue with the lighting for the evening except where there is none.

Maybe I'm too relaxed about it all, but weird dots on people's faces are how it looked on the night. Am I suppose to also turn a wet day into a sunny one, an over weight bride into a thin one or make a dull speech into a funny masterpiece. I'm a videographer not a magician.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 06:58 PM   #29
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Re: What gives with these lights

With some DJ's it's pure inexperience too. On Sunday we had a young DJ (he said it was only his 2nd wedding) who looked like he was 12 years old!! He started at 5pm, the sun was still shining outside yet every light in his rig was running including lasers! I respectfully mentioned to him about what lasers can do to camera sensors and he did turn them off for me. I told him we finish after the first dance and he can then blast the guests on the dance floor with anything he liked. It was weird though with all his lights (including the one that creates millions of dots running all night even while guest were having pre-dinner drinks!! At least he did listen to me!!
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Old October 27th, 2015, 07:09 PM   #30
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Re: What gives with these lights

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Yeah, but, let's face it... most are.

I still DJ 30 weddings a year and bought wirelessly controlled up lighting a few years ago. That means I can CHANGE the color on the fly. So, during speeches and the first dance, the entire room turns white instead of plum or, last week, dark red.

Doing video I've had issues with this sort of lighting and lasers... so many lasers. Dots everywhere.
I always think of the bride, she spent 5k on a wedding dress that on her first dance is either smurf blue or puke green. I actually blame the DJ industry, those companies that make lighting so cheap, it looks exactly like the cost.

It's like our equipment, price and quality does matter. Some of the best DJ's I've worked with, put their money where their mouth was. A DJ that has three times as much in his lighting is probably more invested in knowing how and when to push the right button to enhance the event.

It's also what people see on TV, I used to watch weddings by David Tutera, and his lighting was awesome, and yep, probably 5k plus in lighting trees etc. So brides watch that on TV and say, 'hey, DJ can you give me some awesome blue lighting' so there ya have it, Blue LEDs.
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