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Old August 25th, 2007, 09:46 PM   #1
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16.9/4.3 aspect

Need some advice.
I have been asked to shoot a project and the customer has a wide screen tv.
I use a Sony PD170 SD which is great for 4.3 tv sets but using 16.9 in the camera you loose vertical resoultion.

Should i shoot in 4.3 using the Sony PD170 SD and then use Vegas, Event/Pan Crop 16:9 Widescreen TV aspect ratio to convert to wide screen.

Or Should i shoot in 4.3 using the Sony PD170 SD and mask the LCD screen top & bottom with some tape to get a 16.9 view and then use Vegas, Event/Pan Crop 16:9 Widescreen TV aspect ratio to convert to wide screen.

What would be the best plan of action? to get the best results.
Or should i just shoot in 4.3 SD and be done with it.

I dont have a wide screen tv OR ACCESS to one. Also hiring another camera is out of the question.

Regards
Simon
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Old August 25th, 2007, 10:17 PM   #2
 
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Tough call.
The PD isn't a native widescreen cam, so it's essentially doing the same thing in-cam that you'd be doing in Vegas. You're going to lose a fair amount of resolution using either process, and since you've disqualified using another camera.... the subject matter and framing would be what qualifiers I'd use.
If you've got to shoot wide anyway, I'd shoot wide with the cam and process the 16:9 natively in Vegas.
Are the majority of the shots closeups? Wide angle?
Next consideration would be...do the shots themselves have to be widescreen, or can you fudge a standard aspect image into a wide frame? I do this fairly regularly when processing old footage, and have a tutorial on various wide formattings for 4:3 on the VASST site.
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Old August 25th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #3
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Yeah i'm shooting a property with dams,cows giving birth, old sheds ,flowers generally everything related with farm life.

I would be doing a mixture of wide, medium,close up shots.
Are you suggesting using a wide lense at 4.3 SD and then process the 16:9 natively in Vegas?
The shots dont have to be in wide screen it's just if i shoot in 4.3 SD and the thing is played on a wide screen does the wide screen tv stretch the image or will it letter box right & left ( does that make sense) with black bars?


I'll try and find your tutorial on the VASST site.
It makes it a bit hard not having a wide screen tv available to see the final output.
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Old August 25th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #4
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Simon:

Many of us over the years have shot in 4:3 used a 16:9 overlayed from a matte in the camera. You use memory mix and select the matte off the camera memory stick.

There have been all kinds of discussion regarding this check this thread out for instance:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=88405
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Old August 25th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #5
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Hi Chris,
Thanks i have been looking at that thread and probably should have post in that.

Could you explain this for me a bit better please?
You use memory mix and select the matte off the camera memory stick.

Regards
Simon
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Old August 26th, 2007, 12:26 AM   #6
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Simon - I feel your pain. I had the same situation for a Darrel Lea promo video three years ago. I had to fill a 42 inch plasma screen with a PD170. But the good news is that PD170 is up to the task.

The simplest option is to shoot it 4x3, letterbox it in Vegas and (if the client can handle this) tell them to use the tv's zoom option to fill the screen. This will not look the best, but it works.

The best option is to fake it. Meaning: On a 16x9 Vegas timeline, fill the frame with multiple 4x3 images in the 16x9 space.

This tutorial will give you the options:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/faking_it.html

It's a Final Cut Pro tutorial, but you can adapt all of it to Vegas.

Consider also incorporating lots of digital still images with Ken Burns style pans. I know it's corny but clients love it.

Good luck.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 10:27 AM   #7
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Theodore,
Thanks mate, i wish i could upgrade to a new camera and have the best of both worlds.
I do love the PD170, so easy to use but 16.9 has killed it.
Oh well.
4.3 it is and you know what, it will make me a better camera man/editor.
(The best option is to fake it) Yeah i have been doing that in Vegas.

Regards
Simon
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Old August 27th, 2007, 12:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Ash View Post
Hi Chris,
Thanks i have been looking at that thread and probably should have post in that.

Could you explain this for me a bit better please?
You use memory mix and select the matte off the camera memory stick.

Regards
Simon
Simon:

I am attaching mask I use. I am not guarantying it is exact aspect, but you can make your own in Photoshop. Load the mask on your memory chip and put it in camera.

For the VX2000, I would then start camera up in 4:3 mode, select memory mix. In the lower corner, you will see the current image in memory. Hit the + or - next to memory mix to go through available images, until you hit the mask. Make sure memory mix setting is using M.Chrom by using selecter wheel at back of camer. Once you got image and m.chrom selected, press in on selector wheel, and the two images will mix, leaving you with black bars at top and bottom, but still with a 4:3 image.
Attached Thumbnails
16.9/4.3 aspect-16x9mask.jpg  
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Old August 27th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #9
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Thanks mate.
I will try this out.
All the best

Simon
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 10:43 PM   #10
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Enjoy this large collection of mattes

Sony DCR-TRV350 Digital Handycam / DCR-TRV351 extra images!

and contribute your own at
Flickr: The Memory Mix, insert Sony DSC TRV350 images! Pool

--(o=8> Wiz.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 02:23 AM   #11
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I am confused and perhaps missing something here. Why not just switch the PD170 to 16:9 and shoot it that way? It seems much less convoluted than shooting in 4:3 with masks. Either way you are not using the whole sensor but at least this way you save yourself the extra step of NLE conversion. What are the purported benefits to shooting it in 4:3 and masking it versus switching the camera into 16:9 mode? Thanks for any clarification.
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