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What Happens in Vegas...
...stays in Vegas! This PC-based editing app is a safe bet with these tips.


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Old December 24th, 2009, 12:44 AM   #31
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Well FCP may not be perfect and yes it's missing BR support ( this will come) but in general I find FCP easy and does exactly what I give it from a 30 sec cut to a 2 hour cut.

For me also is the stability of Mac's that I work on from a MBP to a tower and sure FCP locks up but so has every other NLE I have used including Avid MC.

I used to think, why FCP and Mac but I get now.

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Old December 24th, 2009, 01:38 PM   #32
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sucks to hear the trouble people are having with vegas. I too have been dissapointed with the recent versions and lack of quality control. the app's recent instability has also made me question moving to a different NLE. seems like anything sony gets its hands on turns to sh!t after a while.
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Old December 24th, 2009, 02:23 PM   #33
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CanopusHQ is using a very different kind of compression than Cineform. Cineform is a Wavelet based compression. Best thing going right now. Do some research on Wavelet codec (REDCode, Cineform, Dirac, JPeg2000) and you'll begin to understand why it works so well, and is SO FAST and small. This is why I use it as an archival medium as Jpeg2000.

CanopusHQ is using DCT compression, same as ProRes and DNxHD. It makes beautiful encodes, but it needs more space to do so. And more horsepower to play back, though it can be optimized inside the application, which is why Avid screams with DNxHD, and FCP flies with ProRes.

Vegas comes with a free Jpeg2000 encoder, but it only encodes into the .MOV container. I bought Morgan multimedia's encoder which stores in .AVI. It was $30. It uses the same technology as Cineform, but is 8-bit instead of 10-bit. However, Edius is 8-bit anyway, so you're not losing anything.
Perrone - would you recommend sticking with Cineform given what you've layed out for it's technology or make the transition over to the native Canopus HQ codec while working in Edius?
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Old December 24th, 2009, 02:47 PM   #34
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Perrone - would you recommend sticking with Cineform given what you've layed out for it's technology or make the transition over to the native Canopus HQ codec while working in Edius?
Do you mean sticking with Cineform inside Vegas or CanopusHQ inside Edius? I'd go for Edius to be honest.
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Old December 24th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #35
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Do you mean sticking with Cineform inside Vegas or CanopusHQ inside Edius? I'd go for Edius to be honest.
I actually meant using Cineform inside Edius Neo 2
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Old December 24th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #36
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I actually meant using Cineform inside Edius Neo 2
Ah ok. Well give it a shot. There's a lot I like about Cineform. A few things I don't, but hey...

However, I would think that CanopusHQ would be optimized well for their products. I'd do some A/B testing and see...
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Old December 24th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #37
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Perrone, I was looking at the following...on the Grass Valley website it said this was their flasgship product...so naturally that is what I checked out....like I said, yikes.

Grass Valley | EDIUS HD Boardset & Software | 600292 | B&H
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Old December 24th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #38
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Jeff - take away about $600 of that total price on B&H and that's the cost of the hardware. I'm doing a 30 trial of Edius Neo 2 right now and other than not having scopes, it does everything I've been doing in Vegas - since my primary delivery is the net right now, I figure if I can get into a work flow methodology that can be used with the full blown package at a later date - why not.

Consider the full Edius package much in the same way as Avid MC software only - no hardware to work with, but you can at a later date add on if needed.

Not a bad way to go actually.
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Old December 24th, 2009, 08:10 PM   #39
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Jeff you can run Edius 5 in pure software mode. If you are using HDV there is no need to convert to HQ just use straight on the timeline realtime. I am just editing multicam 2 tracks of HDV from FX1's and a track of XDCAM EX3 1920x1080P native realtime on my Q9450 running VISTA64. IF you need to monitor realtime on a full HD monitor you can get the SPARK card which is just a HDMI output card for the preview screen only. The SPARK will work with Edius and Neo. IF you want input other than iLink from your motherboard (ie HDMI) then get the STORMHD and for analogue input get the STORMHD with the analogue BAY. Personally my system is just software. For AVCHD you will still need to convert to HQ ( which I do for my XR500 video until they port the Booster pack to Edius!!!).
Still use Vegas just for audio and to output encode for Architect with named markers etc. I export a HQ file from Edius and bring into Vegas for final audio and export.( only use for Vegas at the moment so I just use 8.0c!!!!)

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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:33 AM   #40
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There is something else going on in this thread and I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's nothing more than a "lack of sleep and a purple brain." The most likely source of many of the "problems" mentioned in this thread is probably between the keyboard and the chair.

The ONE thing I do know is that I use Vegas every day and I don't see problems like those eluded to in this thread. If these problems were Vegas itself, they wouldn't selectively appear in only some systems. A particularly vulnerability that Vegas has is that it can be run on a wide variety of systems - - including those that are "whacked" by the user none of which would ever admit that they don't know everything there is to know about computers.

i would encourage those who are reading this thread to realize that it's a good idea when reading a forum to look for the main body of understanding from a wide range of people. This is the best way to avoid being mislead by either fan boys or people with an "alternate" intent.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:44 AM   #41
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There is something else going on in this thread and I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's nothing more than a "lack of sleep and a purple brain." The most likely source of many of the "problems" mentioned in this thread is probably between the keyboard and the chair.
That's always the safest assumption. However if you know Perrone, you'd understand that's a hard sell, he's extremely fluent with this stuff. Personally I think it's windows. A lot the good things people say about FCP is really a function of it NOT being windows based.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:56 AM   #42
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That's always the safest assumption. However if you know Perrone, you'd understand that's a hard sell, he's extremely fluent with this stuff. Personally I think it's windows. A lot the good things people say about FCP is really a function of it NOT being windows based.
I agree; I have complemented his knowledgeable and patient contribution to a long thread about downsizing HD to SD. I suspect that you're right about Windows or at least it's many variations. To avoid this, my editing system is "frozen" to avoid problems. By that I mean that I don't do things like install other kinds of software, web surf etc. These things can introduce unknown variables to the system that can create problems that are very difficult to nail down.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:58 AM   #43
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There is something else going on in this thread and I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's nothing more than a "lack of sleep and a purple brain." The most likely source of many of the "problems" mentioned in this thread is probably between the keyboard and the chair.
Entirely possible. But evidence seems to the contrary.

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The ONE thing I do know is that I use Vegas every day and I don't see problems like those eluded to in this thread. If these problems were Vegas itself, they wouldn't selectively appear in only some systems. A particularly vulnerability that Vegas has is that it can be run on a wide variety of systems - - including those that are "whacked" by the user none of which would ever admit that they don't know everything there is to know about computers.
I'm glad you don't see these issues. What are you editing? What are you dropping onto the timeline, and how much of it? Also, what version of Vegas are you running? I have 4 systems running Vegas. The most bulletproof is the one running 8.0c on XP. It just works. The most buggy is the one running 9.0b/c on Win7.

I'm not sure what "whacked" is, but all my editing systems are installed the same way. Fresh OS install from scratch. Load NLE, load NLE support programs (GSpot, VLC, VirtualDub, Mpeg Streamclip), patch system. Done. I even went to open a help file on the Win7 system yesterday for one of the apps, and it couldn't because I hadn't installed Acrobat Reader. I run these system CLEAN.

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i would encourage those who are reading this thread to realize that it's a good idea when reading a forum to look for the main body of understanding from a wide range of people. This is the best way to avoid being mislead by either fan boys or people with an "alternate" intent.
I would also encourage those choosing an NLE to speak to a variety of users. Visit the forums to see what problems users are having, and what their complaints are. Find out who's really using the software weekly or daily, and how they are using it. Find people who are using it like you plan to use it. If you're cutting feature films, talking to someone who's doing broadcast is not necessarily going to be the best reference. If you're editing home video for youtube, then talking with people who are editing long-form conferences or weddings is probably not going to be your best source of info.

I've worked with Vegas now for going on 6 years. I've cut everything from conferences, to promos and spec commercials, to movies on it. I've had my issues with it over that time but all had workarounds. The lastest stuff I and others are seeing in the newest versions is far more challenging because a lot of times there is no viable workaround. I've championed Vegas in the past, and it's still a good tool for many, and for certain kinds of work. But it's been a letdown for some workflows. Particularly those originating with mpeg4 based material.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 12:15 PM   #44
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Peronne, I have to agree with Brian on this one. I believe many of the problems that people see with any NLE are actually a Windows issue. If you really want to hear some major whining, talk to a bunch of Premiere users. On the issue of Windows induced NLE "bugs", Vegas is fortunately less affected than most NLEs but there is no way to make it immune.

I can understand why some of the NLE publishers require that their NLE be run only on an approved system - - otherwise you're on your own.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 12:20 PM   #45
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i would encourage those who are reading this thread to realize that it's a good idea when reading a forum to look for the main body of understanding from a wide range of people. This is the best way to avoid being mislead by either fan boys or people with an "alternate" intent.
Absolutely agree. Just like Perrone has quoted. Each program has its best and worst features. Use the programs that do the job for the subject matter at hand. I have used Vegas since Vegas audio!! Also use Premiere and Edius. Each has its good points. Simplistically, for me this is how I see and use them. Edius for speed and multicam, Vegas/Sound Forge for audio and export to Architect, Premiere for its integration with other Adobe apps. I don't subscribe to the notion that one program does or should do it all.
On the issue of Windows. I am amazed at how many people use just one computer for everything. My editing PCs are just for that. Clean, no virus checking etc, nothing, only go to internet for program updates. Never have any problems with any of the programs. Have just one cheap computer for email and browsing. It has lots of protection!!! It too has no problems.I have 4 Windows computer s with no problems.
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