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Old December 13th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #46
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Kim, I'm on a 6GB connector with SATA 3 cables, I'm using the sabertooth x79, it has four 6gb and two 3gb ports.

I just ordered another SSD, I'm hooked on them.

My computer is so much quieter now. I removed all the SAS drives last night, and my case runs SO much cooler.
By the way... again....

Here is a link to a swedish forum before and after when using Samsung's Rapid on the new 840 EVO SSD's...

Scroll down to post #7 or #8 (When using Rapid, the write/read speed is x2)

Just for your intrest.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #47
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Kim, I was looking at your Samsungs this morning, they are an amazing value. Thank you very much for the recommendation! I do not like the three year warranty, so it's holding me back, but the drives are very nice.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #48
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

I guess some SSD's have five years warranty which will be more important for most people..

You might didnt see my questions on post 44 and 45 for you?? =)
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Old December 14th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #49
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Hi Kim, I am using one drive for OS, one for scratch. I just got a third one. Third one will replace the OS, it's too small and slow.

So far all Sandisk Extreme II, but I'm looking at the Samsung, undecided about which way to go, but will know in a day or two.

I did download the crystal disk, looks a little slow.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #50
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Anyone recommend cloning software for Windows 8.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 10:45 PM   #51
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Interesting discussion on SSDs prompted me to look at Blackmagic's recommendations on building high performance video work stations for DaVinci Resolve. Very interesting note on SSD drives on page 9 of their Resolve configuration. Worth a read

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/medi...2012-08-30.pdf

Chris Young
CYV Productions
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Old December 15th, 2013, 03:22 AM   #52
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Jeff I use Acronis True Image Home for disk cloning & back-ups. Samsung Data Migration Software works if you have a Samsung SSD.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 04:33 AM   #53
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Interesting, Jeff. Will certainly take that into account when I choose my data SSDs.

On the subject of cloning, I use Paragon Hard Disk Manager 14 (for backup as well). Served me well in the short time I've used it.

Now, a cautionary tale:

Two things have left a little fly in the ointment:

1. I was unaware that I should have disconnected the original system drive when installing Windows on the SSD. I couldn't work out why when I subsequently removed the old drive I got an error on booting. A little research has put me straight on that. I've read a few posts that suggest I could use BCDEdit or EasyBC to fix this, but most posts suggest I need to reinstall the OS. Annoying - and lesson learned!

2. Although the performance boost has been phenomenally good I have discovered that it's about half what it potentially could be. I believed all my SATA ports to be SATA III but when I eventually found the manual I discovered it's only 2 SATA III and 6 SATA II - and I had connected the SSD to a SATA II port. It was when I tried to swap the ports to put the SSD on a SATA III port that I first discovered the problem in (1) above! No matter what I tried, based on extensive research that took up most of yesterday and well into the night, I just could NOT get the SSD to function on the SATA III port. I learned about all sorts of interesting stuff, but nothing to help me with my problem. And then I read a tiny footnote on the ASUS product page for my motherboard, relating to the 2 SATA III ports hanging off a Marvell controller - "These SATA ports are for data hard drives only. ATAPI devices are not supported". How disappointing is that? Like I said, the performance improvement is huge, so I'm not regretting doing it, but how frustrating!

Last edited by Ian Stark; December 15th, 2013 at 04:36 AM. Reason: corrections and additions
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Old December 15th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #54
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Sounds like it's time for a new motherboard Ian :)
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Old December 15th, 2013, 08:09 AM   #55
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Oh great, Nicholas! Just what I wanted to hear! ;-)

To be honest, the performance I'm getting is still light years ahead of what I had before, so I'm not really complaining, just cross with myself that I didn't pick it up sooner. The motherboard (an Asus P6X58D-E) is superb in every other respect and it's only a three year old model. Maybe next year . . .

On a positive note, I just ran the Paragon Alignment Tool and my overall score using AS SSD has literally doubled.Obviously it's not the (near) 6Gbps speed I was hoping for, but I can enjoy that when I eventually get the data SSDs installed on the two SATA III ports :-)

I've been pondering that article in the Blackmagic documentation. I'm not convinced it makes sense. Consider a device like the Atomos Samurai which captures 10-bit 4:2:2 video and audio straight off the camera sensor via an HD/SD-SDI output - that uses SSDs (or HDDs) and allows you to edit straight off the device. I wonder if the Blackmagic views are based on older technology?
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Old December 16th, 2013, 07:12 PM   #56
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Yeah, Ian, gotta remove old drive.

I downloaded wrong tool for benchmark! So I don't know about my speed.

The tool you recommended Kim is a free download and it's located on CNET and other places I don't trust. Last CNET download I did had malware on it. I was VERY disappointed and will never use the site again. Have trusted them for 15+ years, but no more.

If anyone knows of a reasonably priced free benchmark tool for hard drives let me know please!
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Old December 17th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #57
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

I second the vote for Acronis True Image for cloning, a reliable old staple of mine.

Although not perfect, V12 64bit has overall been the most stable of the Vegas versions I've used since V9.

2 1/2 years ago I configured online and ordered a Dell XPS L702X laptop with 1920x1080 panel, i7 2.2Ghz, Nvidia GeForce GT555M with CUDA and 6.9 GB video ram, Samsung 2.5 inch SSD and Toshibla 7200 rpm HDD.

Now out of date, still the only complaint I have is that it runs out of video ram when using the GPU to render 4k, so like the others I have to disable the Nvidia GPU processing, which causes the render to take 2 1/2 times longer.

All other times except rendering 4k, I enable the GPU processing, and it renders HD and previews decently. I still have the the option to create proxy video which then the preview is realtime.

Vegas will occasionally halt and give the message that it has stopped working, but it keeps a backup. Same old Vegas on that count, but considering it's not rental software, and extremely easy to use, I put up with it.

I put 4k XAVC, XDCAM and AVCHD all on the same timeline, no issues there. It's just important to set the project properties to the highest spec 4096x2160 or 3840x2160, and on the render template set to 1920x1080 for a HD output in AVC, DNxHD or uncompressed AVI.

For 4k output, XAVC or uncompressed AVI are the best options. x264 accepts the uncompressed AVI and renders out a nice 4k, 2k or HD output in a good quality 28 mbps that plays nice with Sony PS3 (HD) or Windows Media Player (HD or 4k).
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Old December 17th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #58
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Yeah, Ian, gotta remove old drive.

I downloaded wrong tool for benchmark! So I don't know about my speed.

The tool you recommended Kim is a free download and it's located on CNET and other places I don't trust. Last CNET download I did had malware on it. I was VERY disappointed and will never use the site again. Have trusted them for 15+ years, but no more.

If anyone knows of a reasonably priced free benchmark tool for hard drives let me know please!
Jeff....

You have to trust me on this...

When you enter: CrystalDiskMark - Software - Crystal Dew World
You click on the green image which is the "Standard Edition" of CrystalDiskMark3...
Then you will be redirected to: a sourceforge.jp download page

Soundforge.jp stand for the very famous open source application sphere, but the japanese version of it..

This software is used by magazines and other reviewing folks out there when testing disks every day.. This is a trusted software believe me...

/Kim
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Old December 18th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #59
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post

If anyone knows of a reasonably priced free benchmark tool for hard drives let me know please!
Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. Available a part of Desktop Video 9.7.8 for Windows from Blackmagic at:
Blackmagic Design: Software Archive

Or on its own from:

Blackmagic Disk Speed Test - Download

What version of Disc Speed resides there I don't know.

Regards the smoothest and best playback in Vegas I find a four or six drive video raid to be the answer. The drives really don't seem to be the problem for playback in Vegas its the CPU / GPU decoding demand that seems to be the root cause of most of Vegas' playback issues.

For short form projects, TV spots, corporates etc I edit with the uncompressed Sony YUV codec. On a reasonable PC, oldish i7, 950 @ 3.07 running at 3.1 GHz, this uncompressed can play back 50p at best full without any problems. At Preview Full it will play back at the full 50 fps to an external monitor with no issues whatsoever. Leaves ProRes, DNx HD and Cineform codecs for dead when it comes to smooth editing and playback. CPU load on the above PC runs between 4~6% with uncompressed as opposed to a jerky AVC HD 50p chewing up between 55~70%.

I batch convert all camera files, mainly XDcam MXF, Sony and Canon AVC HD and MOV files to uncompressed to get a trouble free smooth editing experience. Apart from playback the uncompressed files handle grading more robustly. I then render the master to a YUV uncomp file and from that make my web H.264, DVD or BD files as required. Rendering these files from the YUV uncomp is way quicker than rendering from any compressed intermediate file. No decoding is required. Just encoding to your chosen output format.

Obviously for long format recording uncompressed is possibly a bit impracticable because of file size. It’s in the order of about 460~470GB per hour on 50Hz systems.

For long form programs I batch render using the Vegas scrips ‘Add Regions to Events’ and ‘Batch Render’ using the Matrox VFW MPEG-2 I frame AVI HD codec. Downloadable from the Matrox site. Search for their Video for Windows Codec Pack.

This is the only MPEG-2 I frame codec that I have found that can be customised to render 50 fps progressive. It also supports selective bit-rate from 50~300-mbit. At 50-mbit the CPU load is around 12~18% on average, it also delivers very smooth editing and preview playback in Vegas. This codec supports ‘No Recompression Rendering’ and on the above PC will render an hour of 1920 x 1080 25p in about 6~9 mins back to its own codec. Very fast indeed.

Since switching to using Sony’s YUV uncompressed for short form and the Matrox’s MPEG-2 I frame HD codecs for long form in Vegas the whole workflow process has become much smoother and way faster. Vegas is once again a joy to use.

BTW I also have a feeling, not yet confirmed, that setting the Preview window to 960 x 540 with ‘Scale video to Fit Preview Window’ option turned ‘off’ works best. This exact ½ HD size preview seems performance wise a much easier size for the graphics cards to display rather than having to compute some odd size preview window. Mathematically it’s a 2:1 reduction so I believe easier than trying to compute and scale some odd figure like 67.8% or whatever size you preview window is set at with the scale function turned on.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
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Old January 13th, 2014, 05:59 PM   #60
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Re: Help Getting Video Preview to play smoothly?

Thanks Chris, that write up was VERY helpful. Hard disks and RAID arrays are so cheap now, that I might consider your suggestion.

You said that a 4 to 6 drive array will work. Can you be more specific? Is that normal 7200 RPM drives and a <$1000 controller? Or is that using high-end SAS 15,000 RPM drive, and an enterprise class controller?

Vegas is the most amazing software, but choppy playback completely ruins the editing experience. It's so hard to know if an edit or transition will work when the playback is choppy. I tried switching to FCPX because 90% of the time playback is silky smooth. Everything else about that program drives me crazy!

If I could get Vegas to play as smoothly as FCPX, and then find some premade themes that are as professional looking as the ones in FCPX, then I'd be one happy camper :)

~Jay
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