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Old June 13th, 2006, 12:00 AM   #1
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Very basic Vegas editing questions

I'm embarrassed to ask things so basic, but I'm just beginning and I'd like to develop good editing habits along the way. I've successfully captured multiple DV events and can get them to the timeline, but each of the events needs editing. Should I generally edit each one as I add it to the timeline, or do most experienced editors put all of the events on the timeline and then begin editing ?

If you have an event with several interior parts that need to be saved, do you put it on the timeline, trim the first desired part, put it up on the timeline again and then trim the second desired part, etc until all parts are there. The alternative would seem to be to put it on the timeline and cut repeatedly to leave the desired parts.

After you cut part of an event, a blank space is left on the timeline. When you later render the project, will Vegas automatically connect the adjacent pieces and delete the space from the cut ?
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Old June 13th, 2006, 12:31 AM   #2
 
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Why be embarassed? a question is a question. Far as I know, asking is the only way to get an answer...


Old school...edit in trimmer, then put media on the timeline.
New school...drop entire clip on timeline and edit on the timeline.

To delete cuts/blanks in the timeline, you can perform a post-edit ripple, which will delete those holes. Very useful tool.
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Old June 13th, 2006, 12:47 AM   #3
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Mark,
I usually put several clips on the timeline and trim/edit the events one at a time. Lots of ways to do this. You can split the event (click on the clip and press the s key), delete the undesired part, then pull the remaining events together (if you have the ripple button on, Vegas will pull the events together as you edit). You can also trim an end of an event by clicking on the edge and pulling the clip in to shorten the length. A cool feature of Vegas is that if you split an event and delete an end off of the event, you can get it back again by just clicking on the end and dragging the event back out. This is very cool if you cut it off early in your edit and don't remember how many times you need to hit the "undo" button. There are lots of variations on how to edit (workflow). Some capture long events (weddings for instance) and put the whole event (full tape) on the timeline then hack away from start to finish. Some do just a portion (an intro for instance) as a separate veg file and then place all of the veg files on the timeline (you need Vegas 6 to do this) and finish the edit off with titles, effects, music, etc. That's called nested files. The benefit to this is you can change the individual events right on the timeline and Vegas will change your original veg file too. Before nested files, you had to render the portion of your show and add all of the rendered files to the timeline and if you wanted to change the rendered file, you had to go back to the original veg file, make the change, then re-render the file again. Don't forget that each event can be color corrected, slo-mo'd, fast mo'd, filtered, pip'd, pan/cropped, chromakeyed, and changed/fixed in many other very cool ways. There are lots of ways to do things in Vegas. You might want to check out some tutorials on several sites like vasst.com and Ed Troxel's site. Hope this helps a little.
Randy
edit: ha! Spot said much the same thing in lots fewer words...gotta get quicker on the draw ;-).
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Old June 13th, 2006, 01:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
I'm embarrassed to ask things so basic,

Don't be. Welcome aboard!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
. . but I'm just beginning and I'd like to develop good editing habits along the way.
I really shouldn't be answering this . . . and then I thought why not?!? I've come to realise that each editor has her or his own approach. But mainly it is driven by what is the easiest, slickest way to recall and audition clips/Events.

I've tried the edit before "thing"; the edit on T/L "thing"; the Trimmer Region "thing"; the Media Pool and now Media Manager approach.

Yah know what - as long as I can have a quick and responsive way to my events then I'll employ some or all of the above AT the point that makes sense for THAT project and where abouts I am in that project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
Should I generally edit each one as I add it to the timeline, or do most experienced editors put all of the events on the timeline and then begin editing ?
Well, again, and not speaking for most, it is going to be one of those approaches and ultimately "speed" and flow. Flow and "story" flow for me is the critical adjudicator in that which I want to happen. Most of my work has little if no-storyboard at all. It can be driven by the client, in as much they want their users of their organisation captured against maybe one of their own service sections. But how I get this and edit it, is very fluid, and as such I have had to experiment with several edit approaches and combinations to see what works for me.

. .and yes, when I started out I wanted to do the "right" and correct thing. Not a bad idea either - get some discipline. But, very shortly you WILL develop your own style; adapt that as you progress; find options for multi project and VEG saving and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
If you have an event with several interior parts that need to be saved, do you put it on the timeline, trim the first desired part, put it up on the timeline again and then trim the second desired part, etc until all parts are there. The alternative would seem to be to put it on the timeline and cut repeatedly to leave the desired parts.
Sorry, yes to both parts. It all depends on which YOU find better for editing and telling the story. I suppose, behind everything I've written, what I'm attempting to do is guide you away from "THE" edit approach - I don't believe that there is one approach .. only that which you want for your project AT that time. What you should be attempting to do, as you have just started, IS to experiment with all the approaches so you can feel your way through and kinda get close to the approach feels comfortable for you.

Look, I have spent much time with Regions, Markers and Timeline this and that and Edit View etc etc . . . Now, I just audition Events in Media Manager, Drag this Event into Trimmer, Scrub within Trimmer and Drag section onto/into Timeline - DONE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
The alternative would seem to be to put it on the timeline and cut repeatedly to leave the desired parts.
Yes this is one way, and we all do this. For me I find I can very quickly confuse myself! The Approach I outlined above makes it easier to "build" the video. I'm use the Timeline as really the "Repository of the Story". And yes I will go to timeline to then fine tune and do a gazillion things to the story. But for that initial DRAFT, scratch and sniff immediacy, the way I;'m doing stuff now works for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
After you cut part of an event, a blank space is left on the timeline. When you later render the project, will Vegas automatically connect the adjacent pieces and delete the space from the cut ?
Yes it will. There is a feature that will allow stuff to the Right of the Cursor to be Ripple to the left when you edit in the way you explain. It works and works very well, but use this with care AND attention as I/you/we can seriously confuse things as you experiment with more tracks and so on. But do try it. I use, but I do use it very carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell
After you cut part of an event, a blank space is left on the timeline. When you later render the project, will Vegas automatically connect the adjacent pieces and delete the space from the cut ?
No! Simply put, no. It WILL render that section as "black". However, if you are using the later versions of Vegas, you WILL have the option to use scripts. These fabulous little features will do all kinds of things for you. I bet there is a GAP removal Script out there? But better yet, don;t create them in the first place!!

So, experiment with various edit approaches and make sure you butt stuff up to each other after - if you do edit on T/L - you trim stuff on T/L.

Hope this helps?

Grazie
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Old June 13th, 2006, 01:21 AM   #5
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. .and NEWER, newer skool uses Media Manager with Trimmer! ! ! !

G
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Old June 13th, 2006, 08:06 AM   #6
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I usually like to use the trimmer and drop clips into the timeline sequentially, but I guess that's just me. You can always move things around later, if needed. That said, sometimes that doesn't make the most sense for the project or the particular media you're working with. For example, if you're using one long clip and want to do cutaways to a second clip, you can put the cutaway footage on a track higher up on the timeline and use split/resize to cut away from your main footage.

There are any number of ways to make cuts. Just do whatever feels most natural to you. But as has been said, do use the ripple tool (or simply drag your clips) to fill in the blank spots, because they will render as black video.
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Old June 13th, 2006, 05:57 PM   #7
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Thank you all for your responses. I didn't understand the ripple tool, and now I do. As for many things, there are clearly many ways to accomplish the same goal. I will try these methods and see what works best for me. Thanks again.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 01:41 PM   #8
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I also have a pretty basic question, but can't for the life of me find it documented. How do you trim (i.e., set the in point or out point for a clip on the timeline) to the current position of the scrub control?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 02:51 PM   #9
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Robert,

Old Pinnacle user huh?

Someone might have your answer, but you can...

Just drag the left edge of the clip (event) to the right and watch the preview window to see where you are. That'll trim the start. Same thing from the right edge to trim off the end. Just make sure you're not grabbing one of the other handles like the fade in/out handle.

One more thing... I found printing the manual out invaluable. Having a duplexing color laser made it simpler, and I really don't like reading large manuals on a pc.

Jamie
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:54 PM   #10
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Heres a real easy way of trimming the head and tail ends of a clip and getting it right where you want it.
Highlight the clip-hit either 7 (for the front end of the clip) or 9 (for the back end of the clip. You'll see a red line on the end you choose. Then simply press either the 1 or 3 key to adjust the in and/or out points. When finished either press 5 (all of these on the number pad) OR simply click on another clip. I have found this to be extremely helpful when editing to the beat of music in particular OR if the clip needs to be just that certain length-not 1 frame more or less.
HTHs
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Old December 15th, 2006, 04:44 PM   #11
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Thanks for the responses; neither of the above was what I was looking for. Let's say you're editing video to according to its associated audio. And you're trying to cut right... after... he.. said... that... word... THERE. So you hit the spacebar to pause the video at exactly the right time. Now you want, in a single keystroke, or two if necessary, to make that the out point. Is this really impossible in such an evolved editing suite?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 05:14 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Knecht Schmidt
Thanks for the responses; neither of the above was what I was looking for. Let's say you're editing video to according to its associated audio. And you're trying to cut right... after... he.. said... that... word... THERE. So you hit the spacebar to pause the video at exactly the right time. Now you want, in a single keystroke, or two if necessary, to make that the out point. Is this really impossible in such an evolved editing suite?
If you've already got the clip/event on the timeline, you can:
A: Split at that point to make it the out point. Use the "S" key at the cursor.
B: Hit "O" for "out" after hitting "I" for "in." This will make a selection that you can then regionalize.
C: Edit the piece in the trimmer, which is the best way to do this if you're used to working with a trimmer/source window. You edit in the Trimmer exactly the same way as you do with any other Source window. I/O/A
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Old December 15th, 2006, 05:15 PM   #13
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Robert,
are you wanting to cut just the 1 track or both?
If both of course just hit the S key and that will split both tracks-if just 1 track either audio or video then you can highlight which ever track it is you want to cut and then hit the S key to split it.

I hope I'm correctly understanding want you want to do.

OOOPS sorry, Spot beat me to it again -- darn he's got fast fingers ;-)
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Old December 15th, 2006, 09:59 PM   #14
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The "S" key is halfway to what I want to do, but it still leaves the extra step of reaching for my mouse, selecting the unwanted portion of the clip, then going back to the keyboard for a delete key.

At least I've verified that Vegas is indeed lacking the desired functionality. I don't suppose I can code a macro/script or something that would do what I want?

Thanks, Spot & gang.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 10:42 PM   #15
 
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You could use a script that says "split at cursor point and delete remaing portions of clip" or you can just split and CTRL+X, as the second/right half of the split clip is already selected as a result of the split.
or, you can have a key with the macro built.
or, you can use the Trimmer, since you seem to not want to trim on the timeline.
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