On bike (motorcycle) audio at DVinfo.net

Derek Nickell · November 17th, 2008, 07:38 PM

Im trying to find a way to capture good clean audio on a pretty loud dirtbike. I have tried my Senn wireless system on it and it just blows it out even with a -30 db reduction. I was thinking of wrapping a sock around the mic and gaff tape it to the mic like a big ball, but i dont want to kill the high's either.

Any suggestions for some low gain mics? I can get a marantz to put on the bike for capture, so something phantom XLR would be fine.

thanks

derek@alan-curtis.com

Allen Plowman · November 17th, 2008, 07:54 PM

I use an audio technica 897 shotgun mic. it can handle anything I have subjected it too so far. I have used it with the xlr adapter on my senn, but I have not yet attached it to the bike. we are planning on doing that the next time we are at the track. This bike is about 120db during the burnout, and no, I was not filming or driving. I am the one standing in front of the bike. I work as crew chief and I have to hand the camera to whoever happens to be with us. I would think you will have a lot of problems mounting any sork of mic, with a lav it will be rubbing against your clothes, and a xlr mic will have to be attached, and will pick up engine vibrations.
YouTube - Ron Meyer Top Fuel Nitro bike Sacramento raceway

Jack Walker · November 17th, 2008, 09:23 PM

There are lavalier mics like this that have reduced sensitivity and can handle up to 132 dB SPL:
Sanken | COS-11 Omnidirectional Lavalier | COS-11SPT-RM-BE | B&H

This may not be the perfect choice, but there are other options.

You should be able to tape it to your forhead or in some other way, maybe with a little mount or cage.

If the signal is too strong you can use an attenuator in the line such as this one from Audio Technica that offers 3 levels of attenuation:
Audio-Technica | AT8202 In-Line Attenuator | AT8202 | B&H Photo

Another option would be to get a dynamic mic with built in shock mount and high spl capability and strap it to youself with a buffer of a piece of foam or something... or some other mounting, though in a way that doesn't turn the mic into a spear.

With a lavalier you might need a windshield.

Probably each particular case requires a little experimentation. But I know they put mics on race cars, so I'm sure it's possible.

Marshall Staton · November 17th, 2008, 10:11 PM

Are you trying to capture dialog or just sound of the dirt bike. I worked on a national tv show on motorcycles and they had a clamp that attached to a helmet, probably from a motorcycle specialty shop for a comms system. Had a lectrosonic mic and transmitter and coiled it down the clamp/flex arm and had a foam windscreen over it. Got usuable dialog at speeds excess of 50 mph. Here is a clip YouTube - Ridley on American Thunder

Marco Leavitt · November 18th, 2008, 09:06 AM

That was cool Marshall. I thought it sounded pretty good.

Derek Nickell · November 18th, 2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Staton

Are you trying to capture dialog or just sound of the dirt bike. I worked on a national tv show on motorcycles and they had a clamp that attached to a helmet, probably from a motorcycle specialty shop for a comms system. Had a lectrosonic mic and transmitter and coiled it down the clamp/flex arm and had a foam windscreen over it. Got usuable dialog at speeds excess of 50 mph. Here is a clip YouTube - Ridley on American Thunder

That sounds pretty good, and it picked up some of the bike sound as well. Im looking to just capture the sound of the bike. We tried to get him talking on the bike as well but got some really bad wind noise and the bike exhaust would crunch the audio every time he would rev. Might try that setup and see what we can get.

Jay Massengill · November 18th, 2008, 03:06 PM

Maybe an instrument mic designed to attach directly to drums? They are fairly small and lightweight and designed for high SPL. You might need to improvise the wind protection though.

Wayne Brissette · November 18th, 2008, 08:41 PM

As a motorcyclist myself, I think it's an interesting topic. Your main enemy as you have already found out, is the wind. Pick up any speed and wind noise becomes the largest issue you have. If you've seen either Long Way Around or Long Way Down, you'll think, "wow, what clear audio they have." However, what you are hearing is a microphone mounted in the helmet that is going to an intercom system, which in turn sends one of the outputs to the bike-to-bike radios, and another output goes to the helmet camera, which is recording the audio along with the video.

The standard microphones we use for film don't really work all that well in this situation since there is so much wind noise. I'm not sure if the red dot mics (high SPL) would accomplish much since the mic still must be protected from the wind.

Since it sounds like you just want the sound of the bike, you might try getting the rider to put the mic inside his jacket and seeing if that helps. If the bike has a windscreen on it, that might help as well. But you have to try to get the mic out of the wind. That's the only way to really get good audio that you can use later.

Wayne
PM me if you to read my blog about my 4,000 mile motorcycle trip I just took.

Marshall Staton · November 19th, 2008, 12:44 AM

Do you have any kind of small dynamic mic like a RE 635a that maybe you can hide with a wireless tx. Would be kind of large but if you could hide it you may be able to get some decent sound and it would probably be your best best for not overloading it.

November 17th, 2008, 07:38 PM	#1
Derek Nickell Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LA/SFV Posts: 155 Images: 2	On bike (motorcycle) audio Im trying to find a way to capture good clean audio on a pretty loud dirtbike. I have tried my Senn wireless system on it and it just blows it out even with a -30 db reduction. I was thinking of wrapping a sock around the mic and gaff tape it to the mic like a big ball, but i dont want to kill the high's either. Any suggestions for some low gain mics? I can get a marantz to put on the bike for capture, so something phantom XLR would be fine. thanks derek@alan-curtis.com

November 17th, 2008, 07:54 PM	#2
Allen Plowman Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paradise, california Posts: 353	I use an audio technica 897 shotgun mic. it can handle anything I have subjected it too so far. I have used it with the xlr adapter on my senn, but I have not yet attached it to the bike. we are planning on doing that the next time we are at the track. This bike is about 120db during the burnout, and no, I was not filming or driving. I am the one standing in front of the bike. I work as crew chief and I have to hand the camera to whoever happens to be with us. I would think you will have a lot of problems mounting any sork of mic, with a lav it will be rubbing against your clothes, and a xlr mic will have to be attached, and will pick up engine vibrations. YouTube - Ron Meyer Top Fuel Nitro bike Sacramento raceway __________________ "What I need is an exact list of specific unknown problems we might encounter."

November 18th, 2008, 08:41 PM	#8
Wayne Brissette Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 383	As a motorcyclist myself, I think it's an interesting topic. Your main enemy as you have already found out, is the wind. Pick up any speed and wind noise becomes the largest issue you have. If you've seen either Long Way Around or Long Way Down, you'll think, "wow, what clear audio they have." However, what you are hearing is a microphone mounted in the helmet that is going to an intercom system, which in turn sends one of the outputs to the bike-to-bike radios, and another output goes to the helmet camera, which is recording the audio along with the video. The standard microphones we use for film don't really work all that well in this situation since there is so much wind noise. I'm not sure if the red dot mics (high SPL) would accomplish much since the mic still must be protected from the wind. Since it sounds like you just want the sound of the bike, you might try getting the rider to put the mic inside his jacket and seeing if that helps. If the bike has a windscreen on it, that might help as well. But you have to try to get the mic out of the wind. That's the only way to really get good audio that you can use later. Wayne PM me if you to read my blog about my 4,000 mile motorcycle trip I just took. __________________ Mics: KMR 82 i, NTG-1, MKH418S, MKH8040, SR77, QTC1, QTC40, SR30 Recorder: Zaxcom Deva 5.8 & MIX-12. Wireless: TRX900 stereo, Lectro 411

November 17th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#3
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	There are lavalier mics like this that have reduced sensitivity and can handle up to 132 dB SPL: Sanken \| COS-11 Omnidirectional Lavalier \| COS-11SPT-RM-BE \| B&H This may not be the perfect choice, but there are other options. You should be able to tape it to your forhead or in some other way, maybe with a little mount or cage. If the signal is too strong you can use an attenuator in the line such as this one from Audio Technica that offers 3 levels of attenuation: Audio-Technica \| AT8202 In-Line Attenuator \| AT8202 \| B&H Photo Another option would be to get a dynamic mic with built in shock mount and high spl capability and strap it to youself with a buffer of a piece of foam or something... or some other mounting, though in a way that doesn't turn the mic into a spear. With a lavalier you might need a windshield. Probably each particular case requires a little experimentation. But I know they put mics on race cars, so I'm sure it's possible.

November 17th, 2008, 10:11 PM	#4
Marshall Staton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 241	Are you trying to capture dialog or just sound of the dirt bike. I worked on a national tv show on motorcycles and they had a clamp that attached to a helmet, probably from a motorcycle specialty shop for a comms system. Had a lectrosonic mic and transmitter and coiled it down the clamp/flex arm and had a foam windscreen over it. Got usuable dialog at speeds excess of 50 mph. Here is a clip YouTube - Ridley on American Thunder

November 18th, 2008, 09:06 AM	#5
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	That was cool Marshall. I thought it sounded pretty good.

November 18th, 2008, 03:06 PM	#7
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Maybe an instrument mic designed to attach directly to drums? They are fairly small and lightweight and designed for high SPL. You might need to improvise the wind protection though.

November 19th, 2008, 12:44 AM	#9
Marshall Staton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 241	Do you have any kind of small dynamic mic like a RE 635a that maybe you can hide with a wireless tx. Would be kind of large but if you could hide it you may be able to get some decent sound and it would probably be your best best for not overloading it.