Bag Pipes

[Vincent Oliver]

Pipes are tuned in the same way as most woodwind instruments, you extend the length of the pipe by pulling it out slightly to lower the pitch or pushing it in to raise the pitch.

Reeds are generally trimmed to make them vibrate more freely, it won't alter the pitch, that will be set by the length of pipe.

I knew all those years of playing the clarinet and bassoon would come in handy one day.:-)

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

Bagpipes were invented by the Scots to scare the opposing army into retreating before any fighting had started. They are perfect for this application.
...?

Actually they were invented by the Irish who then gave them to the Scots as a joke. The Scots still haven't got it.

[Jim Andrada]

Isn't it true that the oboe has very limited tuning ability? I've heard that that's one reason s symphony orchestra tunes to the oboe's A.

Tuning can be quite a process. My wife's piano was regulated last week (adjusting the action - a 3 day process) and towards the end the piano tuner re-tuned the piano - my wife was in the kitchen and got a funny look on her face and said something about the piano sounding flat, and then ran in and asked him not to tune to A=440Hz but to A=442 Hz. And of course she wanted some octaves stretched and others slightly compressed.

I know that older brass instruments used to have tuning crooks that would let you adjust plus/minus around A=437, but now the US is on A=440 and I think Europe is at A=442. And bands tune to Bb and orchestras to A.

I've never played a woodwind - just piano and Tuba/Euphonium.

[Allan Black]

Years ago we studio recorded all the bagpipe tracks for a Scots highland dance school.

They sent 1 (one) piper along to record the whole syllabus in 3 hour sessions.

Watching the poor guy slowly turn red then blue in the face, after 2hrs I devised the following procedure; we recorded the bag only for 1min. on 2 tracks then looped it for about 10mins. Then we recorded all the pipe melodies over the other 22 tracks.

Later I set the playback levels and reverb for our kid to mix down, while we all went to the pub.

Saved the pipers life, my sanity and eventually a nice malt arrived along with a promptly paid invoice.

Cheers.

[Vincent Oliver]

Originally Posted by Jim Andrada

Isn't it true that the oboe has very limited tuning ability? I've heard that that's one reason s symphony orchestra tunes to the oboe's A.

I know that older brass instruments used to have tuning crooks that would let you adjust plus/minus around A=437, but now the US is on A=440 and I think Europe is at A=442. And bands tune to Bb and orchestras to A.

No we use 440 here in Europe too. The Oboe is used for tuning as it produces the purest sounding A (concert pitch). Brass instruments still extend the tubes (slides) to alter pitch, as do Horns, Flutes, Clarinets and other
woodwind instruments.

Calvin, I Hope all this information is helping you with recording Bagpipes :-) we want to hear the final result when you complete the task.

[Colin McDonald]

Originally Posted by Allan Black

...we recorded the bag only for 1min. on 2 tracks then looped it for about 10mins. Then we recorded all the pipe melodies over the other 22 tracks.

That's clever. Full marks and a large dram of Glen Walkabout!

To be serious (if briefly) just one thing I'm not clear about, normally the chanter (the melody bit) is 'powered' from the bag and therefore never stops playing. Did you just remove the drones and stick corks (from bottles of malt?) in the bag or did your piper blow the chanter directly? If the latter, that would not quite produce the correct effect as pauses in the sound for breathing are not a feature of bagpipe music. Might do for dance practice though.

Much more importantly: there's a lot of possibilities here for the recording of music generally
eg record 1 minute from the snare drum in Bolero then tell him/her to go and set up the drinks;
or send the continuo out for some fizz after a few times through the Pachelbel Canon ground bass;
and as for all these tedious da capo arias, let the soprano record the repeated section by herself (with all these egocentric ornaments) while the rest of us do something useful.

I definitely think you may have started something here, Alan. I have clearly been wasting my life when recording music. Trust an Aussie to get to the heart of the matter!

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Steve House

Actually they were invented by the Irish who then gave them to the Scots as a joke. The Scots still haven't got it.

It's even more complex than that:

Bagpipes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Tracy Foust]

The difference between bagpipes and a harmonica.
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.
.
The harmonica only sucks half the time!!
(could not resist)

[Allan Black]

Originally Posted by Colin McDonald

To be serious (if briefly) just one thing I'm not clear about, normally the chanter (the melody bit) is 'powered' from the bag and therefore never stops playing. Did you just remove the drones and stick corks (from bottles of malt?) in the bag or did your piper blow the chanter directly? If the latter, that would not quite produce the correct effect as pauses in the sound for breathing are not a feature of bagpipe music. Might do for dance practice though.

I definitely think you may have started something here, Allan. I have clearly been wasting my life when recording music. Trust an Aussie to get to the heart of the matter!

Thanks Col :) it was many years ago and from memory I believe the piper removed the chanter from the bag and just played straight into it, like a piccolo .. he might have improvised a mouthpiece .. or he might have used a prrractice chanter .. can't remember.

But it worked, back in those days, most producer/engineers came up with solutions like that as a matter of routine. The sixties was a great time to be in the recording biz. and a fantastic place to visit when in London is Abbey Road, you could spend all afternoon in the mic room. Bit off topic but they have mics in there from the 1930s, you can still rent them for sessions and retired very elderly techs still come by to service them. Don't miss it.

Cheers.

[Rusty Rogers]

Originally Posted by Tracy Foust

The difference between bagpipes and a harmonica.
.
.
.
The harmonica only sucks half the time!!
(could not resist)

So, what do banjo players consider "perfect pitch"?
.
.
.
When you can throw an accordion in a dumpster from 10 yards...
.
.
.
and hit the bagpipes.
(could not resist ether)

[Jim Andrada]

Hey, this is the kind of thing that makes acoustic (ie REAL) instruments so much fun and so challenging to record well - they follow their own versions of the laws of physics.

[John Isgren]

Originally Posted by Allan Black

Thanks Col :) it was many years ago and from memory I believe the piper removed the chanter from the bag and just played straight into it, like a piccolo .. he might have improvised a mouthpiece .. or he might have used a prrractice chanter .. can't remember.

But it worked, back in those days, most producer/engineers came up with solutions like that as a matter of routine. The sixties was a great time to be in the recording biz. and a fantastic place to visit when in London is Abbey Road, you could spend all afternoon in the mic room. Bit off topic but they have mics in there from the 1930s, you can still rent them for sessions and retired very elderly techs still come by to service them. Don't miss it.

Cheers.

I think this would not be the best way to record/play the pipes in a studio. The reeds are very sensitive to moisture and the pitch changes as the humidity in the wood changes. Mouth-blowing the cnahtger will saurate the reed very quickly. In addition to continous airflow, the bag help control the humidity. in fact many bags have a moisture control system (canisters of kitty litter like material that the air passes through) in them to keep moisture and thus tuning more constant.

The best way is to record the drones and chanter at the same time, but I have seen it done where the piper first plays the drones and this is recorded as a background track. The drones are then corked and the piper plays the melody on the chanter. Many tunes have harmonies and the same piper can then go back and record the harmonies. Tuning will always be a problem in these cases. Melodies recorded later in the session may not be in tune with the drones recorded earlier and the reeds get damp and the piper's stamina drops.

Back to the original poster the on camera mic will probably be perfectly adequate for the pipes will be loud. Any lav you would try to put on the piper will not work. On the front the sound level will be too high and will saturate the mic. The problem with putting on his back is that the drones stick over the shoulder and you will not get a good balance with the chanter.

The only other option would be a shot-gun or hyper on a boom following 15-20ft from the piper.

[Colin McDonald]

Pipes in harmony has always been a step too far for me - it's a recent innovation and not in the tradition. The use of a shotgun in these circumstances has already been mentioned - both barrels right through the bag (no jury would convict you).

[John Isgren]

YouTube - ‪St Laurence O'Toole at the Scottish Championships 2011‬‏

:)

[Calvin Bellows]

To give every one an update i decided to try just having a mic in the middle of the arena to pick up the sound the best I could. I didn't like the result as there was too much room noise. I know with bagpipes how can there be too much room noise but there was. I will try something else next year....don't know what that is yet. Thanks for the input.