I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

I have a Sony HDR-AX2000 camera. As anybody who has this camera knows, the video quality is superb, but the audio quality is about as bad as a $100 toy camcorder. Not only it sounds muffled, it has an equalization curve that yells cheap. My consumer Canon HF100 sounds a thousand times better than that. This is outrageous for a $3500 camera, but it's the Sony way.

So I need an XLR microphone for it, since it doesn't take a 3.5mm plug, but I searched B&H and something I could afford, the MXL FR-303 for $120, is mono. Doing a search for stereo brings the Edirol / Roland CS-50, but it's $475, way out of my budget. I know the pros are going to tell me that even that Edirol is going to sound like crap because they're used to $2000 mics, but I'm happy with my $70 Azden SMX-10 microphone, so it doesn't take a big lot to please me. I just want something that doesn't sound so horrible as the built in mic in the AX2000.

So are there any other mics out there for about $100 that are XLR, stereo, and will sound half decent? This is not permanent of course, I just need something for now until I can afford a decent one.

Also, would a female 3.5mm to male XLR cable to use my Azden be a good option? I know there's a good reason in theory why balanced is better than unbalanced, but would this adapter cable give me the same audio quality I get when I plug in my Azden to a camera with a 3.5mm connector?

Thanks,

Sebastian

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

The only stereo mics I've ever seen have 5 pin xlrs to handle the two channels - ordinary 3 pin xlrs are mono - so the nicest sounding one I ever had was the old Audio Technica 835 - I assume the new version sounds as good, if not better. The only snag is the mic comes with a 5 to 2 x male xlr adaptor, but mine didn't reach the rear sockets on my camera - I suspect they should reach yours as it's closer. I found the m/s setting the most useful.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Thanks, I had not realized that the 3 pins in the XLR connector are mono, which makes sense now. However, the camera has two of those, so now I realize that a stereo XLR mic that would work with my camera would have to have two different cables and plugs, one for each channel. So the female 3.5mm to XLR adapter cable I saw would convert the stereo mic signal into mono, unless I find a female 3.5mm to two 3 pin XLR male.

So now I have another question, do they make stereo XLR mics that output two cables to two 3 pin male XLR plugs?

I hope I'm not confusing anybody, as I understand "plug" is the connector at the end of any audio or video cable, and "jack" is the connector that goes on the wall or the piece of equipment whether it's a mixer console or a camera, is that right?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

If you really must have a cheap stereo mic you could use a minijack to 2x XLR cable to connect a http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/518701-REG/Audio_Technica_PRO_24_CM_Pro_24CM_Stereo.html but I would also urge you to think where best to put it (ie near as possible to the source of the sound) as this can make a huge difference in the quality of the audio, probably more than spending lots of cash on a mic and mounting it on the camera.

I would also suggest that you consider whether you really need a stereo mic or whether you would be better off getting a higher quality mono mic, or even two lesser quality mono mics. The only time I use a stereo mic or array is to record an acoustically balanced live performance like a good choir or orchestra.

EDIT: Didn't see the previous replies

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Thanks, Colin, I'm trying to find a cable that has a 3.5mm female plug to 2 XLR male ones, but all I can find is just 3.5mm female to one XLR, so that would make it mono in the end.

I had tried the PCM24 before I got the Azden over a year ago, but I didn't like it. It had very low gain, while the Azden had excellent gain. Besides, it's stereo but directional, so it still gives a stereo image but more focused on what's right in front of the camera. I read that audio pros have a very poor opinion of Azden, but in my experience with the SMX10, they are very good, if not top notch of course. But far better than what comes built in in low end pro camcorders.

I will probably get a mono one too, but I want stereo for when I need ambient sound, and also for my own personal videos of trips and things like that. Having a nice home theater, I want to have a realistic ambient sound.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

There's the Rode Stereo VideoMic for 250.00, or the Rode NT4 at 529.00 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/255008-REG/Rode_NT4_NT4_Cardioid_Studio.html
This AT2022 looks interesting at 250.00 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/761016-REG/Audio_Technica_AT2022_AT2022_X_Y_Stereo_Microphone.html
But maybe think about what you are recording. If you are recording people talking, a mono mic is better. With stereo, voices get washed out and lose focus in the stereo spectrum. Maybe a shotgun would work for your purposes. It rejects side sound, clearing up the sound you are aiming at. The Rode NTG-2 is decent. I wouldn't recommend going for the cheapest mic you can find either, or you'll just be in the same boat, only having paid more money for it.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Now I'm confused. Paul said that 3 pin XLR is mono. But this Audio-Technica AT2022 says it's stereo, and yet the specs says it's a 3 pn XLR. So how is that possible if stereo needs 5 pins? I mean, if the mic is stereo, but the output is 3 pins, then how does it produce a stereo signal?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

These mics usually come with a cable that plugs into the mic, and the other end is split to be 2 mono xlr ends that you plug into your camera, or recorder, or additional XLR cables for more length.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Wait, now I'm confused. I think the AT2022 needs to end up as 1/8" mini, rather than 2 XLR for pro use.

YouTube - ‪Audio Technica AT2022 - NAB 2011‬‏

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

OK, so maybe I misunderstood Paul, or he got that wrong. His post seems to imply that any 3 pin XLR connector is mono, but this guy in the video showing the AT2022 says "... and it outputs left and right stereo on a standard 3 pin XLR connector."

So that means that stereo using a 3 pin XLR connector is possible. In that case, a female 3.5mm to a single 3 pin XLR connector would preserve the stereo sound, or not?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

The AT2022 uses a non-standard XLR wiring. It is unbalanced, using pins 2 and 3 for left and right respectively. The included adapter cable is wired with a stereo 1/8" connector.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

OK, so then 3 pin XLR is mono, except that in this case they just use as unbalanced and it goes down to a 3.5mm connector. I suppose that if you use a XLR cable to connect this then it would carry a balanced mono signal? Or it wouldn't work because it's just meant as unbalanced to end in a 3.5mm connector?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

So a proper stereo XLR mic would have a 5 pin output on the microphone, and to keep the stereo you would either need a straight 5 pin to 5 pin cable, or in my case, having two separate 3 pin jacks in the camera, a 5 pin to 2 3 pin Y cable, is that correct?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Yes, a Y cable is usually how it is connected. Some mics come with a Y cable (the Røde NT4 does)

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

That one looks great, but out of my budget for now. Although it's one model I will consider in the future. For now perhaps I'll just get the mono XLR for when I do events and see if I can find the 3.5mm to 2 3 pin XLR cable adapter for using the Azden I have when I need stereo.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

I don't know that a mic that ONLY ends in 1/8" mini is worth it, especially if you're going to use adapters to bet back to XLR AND if you accidentally leave Phantom power on you fry the mic.

Here are some: Stereo & Specialty

Maybe this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/589727-REG/Tascam_TM_STPRO_TM_STPRO_X_Y_Stereo_Microphone.html
This one looks great quality: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602080-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8022_AT8022_X_Y_Stereo_Phantom.html
The sound quality is important isn't it?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

I think I know what you mean, that if I use a phantom powered XLR mic and then I connect the Azden using the adapter cable then I would damage the microphone if I forgot to turn the power off. I think I'm covered in that aspect, because I'm considering the Azden SGM-1X, which is XLR mono but self powered with a AAA battery that lasts like 800 hrs, so I would never have to turn Phantom power on in the camera.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Oh I didn't catch that you were going to use the Azden. Yeah, I'd try to get another mic ASAP. My point was that the AT stereo mic is not meant to use plugged into a camera that takes XLR cables. Though it has an XLR connection, that is only as a way to carry unbalanced 1/8" stereo. It's meant to go into consumer cameras/recorders that take 1/8" (3.5mm) connections. Most stereo mics that properly come out as 2 XLR connections, also come with a cable for 1/8" mini jack too. The AT mic would be limiting, and could be ruined with one small slip of the mind forgetting to turn off Phantom.

Save for something better is all I'm saying.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

You might look at the Audio-Technica Pro24. I bought the CM version (with hotshoe foot) for my DSLR. Sound quality is good, stereo effect is, of course, most pronounced when used close; like most AT mikes the output is not particularly "hot" but adequate level for the preamps in my Nikon D7000. Has 1/8" stereo plug. $63, I think it's pretty darned good for that price...

EDIT: nevermind, I misread your OP, thought you WANTED at 1/8" plug. Sorry.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/352168-REG/Audio_Technica_PRO_24_Pro_24_Stereo_Condenser.html

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Thanks Battle, but see one of my posts above about the PCM24. The Azden SMX10 is much better which is another reason I'm considering the Azden SGM-1X. In fact, I could get two. If you see pictures of the Sony HDR-AX2000 you can see that it has a place to attach a microphone to with a clip, but also the show on top of the built in mic. So two of these would give me two separate channels that I could pan in editing to make a stereo image. In theory it wouldn't be perfect, because one microphone would be about an inch lower than the other, but it would still give me a stereo ambient sound, and at the same time each channel would have a good mono signal from a directional microphone if I'm recording speech, so while not perfect, it would be a decent solution.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

If you are recording speech, just use one mono mic. Stereo only hurts speech recordings for the reasons I mentioned earlier.. And if you are recording indoors, a shotgun is the wrong tool anyway. Stereo mics are best used only for ambient, and music recordings. Those mics are usually "cardioid" pattern.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Following up on what Chad said, stereo on camera is generally not a great ides - as you pan the camera around, the stereo image moves as well and generally in ways that can be disconcerting to the viewer.

Also, any mic on camera is just about guaranteed to be in the wrong place to capture good sound.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

It's not disconcerting to me. It would be disconcerting if the source of the sound would be coming from a specific point and you pan around but the stereo microphone stays in the same place.

Ideally, if the event is very long and without pauses, you can have the mono shotgun mic on the camera and then place a stereo digital recorder somewhere else to capture ambient sound and people clapping. However, if you are doing an event where you are not recording all the time, it would drive you crazy in editing to sync all the clips from the camera to the one long audio clip from the recorder. In the same way, it would drive you crazy to have to stop the digital recorder every time you stop the camera. Besides, you also have to be able to find a spot where your digital recorder will be safe, where nobody can get to it. That's usually hard to find.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

That does not make for a balanced signal. What you'd have at the end of it all is left and right mixed, 180 degrees out of phase with each other, a recipe for disaster.

That particular mic (AT2022) is meant to end up with a 3.5 plug at the equipment end of the cable, tip carrying left and ring carrying right. The XLR is just to connect the mic body itself to the supplied cable, I presume setup that way so if the cable develops a fault you can replace it without throwing away the entire mic.

Consider the Audio Technica AT8022 or BP4025, or Rode NT4 if you really want to go the stereo route. But has been said by others, stereo as a boom or on-camera mic is NOT the way to go, so to replace your marginal in-camera mics you're barking up the wrong tree. Stereo mics certainly have their place - typically in a fixed position mounted on a stand at the proper "sweet spot" for recording a music ensemble, for example. Human speech is a mono source - it comes out of ONE pie-hole - and is properly recorded mono. Later in post is where you position it screen centre by panning the mono source track equally to the left and right stereo output tracks.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

So the AT2022 having that XLR output is just a gimmick. Because it's unbalanced and meant only to go down to a 3.5mm plug, so why do they even bother with an XLR output on the mic that is XLR only in the way it looks?

I know what everybody says about the voice being mono and all that, but check my post right before yours. Yes, ideally I would have a mono mic on the camera, and a stereo digital recorder somewhere else, but not every event is the same and what's optimal is not always possible. If the whole video is just one guy talking at a podium, a mono mic is optimal because even when people clap and there's no stereo capture, most likely that video is going to be seen at a company coming out of a TV set where there's barely a difference between mono and stereo even if the TV set has two speakers.

But for a wedding or other social events, where there's music, maybe outdoor nature sounds, clapping, etc, and there's a big change that the couple may later watch that video in a home theater with Dolby Prologic II which is going to turn the stereo into a nice 5.1, it would be absolutely awful if everything comes out of the center channel speaker. That would drive me crazy, far more than if the stereo image is not 100% perfect.

That's one reason why to me the Azden SMX10 is such a great microphone, because it's stereo directional. It gives me a nice stereo image but it focuses on what's in front of the camera, so the human voice comes out much better than with any built in microphone.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Panning the camera is the equivalent of moving your eyes around, looking from one place to the another when you're standing at a live event. But sounds don't pan as you turn your head - look left, look right, the sound source always stays in the same place in the room in your perception because your ear's localization does not automatically track to follow your eye's attention. Recording on with a stereo mic that moves with the camera pans, OTOH, creates an acoustic IMAGE that moves around with respect to the "room" that is defined by the screen edges. The view isn't what is perceived as changing but rather the location within the view of the sound source itself ... one moment it's on the viewer's right side, the next moment it's on the left. The sound space gets jumbled with the result being the destruction of the illusion of space that is built up in the screen, you have eroded what is often called the 4th Wall and drawn attention to the process rather than the subject. The stage is considered a fixed spot within the room, a window into another reality ... when a character moves from far screen left to far screen right while speaking his voice DOES NOT go from the far left of the ROOM to the far right; it goes from the left side of the WINDOW to the right, a far more limited distance. Recording it in stereo causes the voice to leave the confines of the screen and appear to come from some unseen location some distance outside the frame in which the action is taking place.

I'm curious about the rationale behind your budget ... As I recall you're aiming at doing this professionally; you've spent $3500 on camera and who knows how much on tripods, lights, etc and yet you want to cheap out on consumer level crappola toys (and techniques - covering an event with a camera mounted shotgun, for example) when it comes to sound. Don't you realize that high-quality professional sound is as important - if not more important - than high quality images when it comes to the audience acceptance of your work? And the success of your business, whether full-time or part-time, is 100% dependent on that audience's reaction. If it doesn't surpass their expectations, they won't buy it. And their expectations are set by what they've seen every day for most of their lives in movie theatres and on network broadcast television. For better or worse, that's what sets the standards we have to maintain in our own work.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

I agree with part of what you said, but not with that the stereo image stays the same when you move your head around. If you just move your eyes your perception of sound doesn't change, but when you move your head, it does, unless we have very different brains. If there's a person talking in front of me and I turn my head to the left, his voice will sound on my right and viceversa. Same thing with a live band or any other sound source. However, it doesn't matter because if there's a live band I wouldn't need to pan around, I would stay focused on the band. And in that case I would use a stereo directional anyway because a full 180 stereo would sound awful, but a mono would also sound awful. In 2008 I recorded a rock concert outdoors for the Red Cross as a favor (they had organized the concert). Back then I had nothing remotely professional, I recorded it with a Canon HF100 and a hot shoe microphone made for that camera, which had a switch with three positions, 180, 90 and mono directional. I chose 90 and even though it was outdoors and I was about 40 feet in front of the stage, I got very decent sound, of course after I equalized it in Vegas, And even though I had to pan every now and then to follow the lead guy (Bo Bice) the stereo image didn't suffer. Of course, this wasn't a pro audio capture by far, but it is decent enough that it can recreate the illusion of being there on a big screen and a nice home theater with Dolby Prologic II in Music mode.

But like I said, it all changes depending on the type of even. Last Friday I did a social event for a wealthy family that had rented a ballroom at a Hilton. For most of it I didn't have to worry one bit about the pathetic audio quality from the AX2000 built in mic because I also had a Zoom H2 connected to the mixer, so the music and the main microphone were recorded directly and I can use that in editing. The problem was that they hired a magician, and he brought his own equipment with mics, amplifier and speakers, which to make things worse, were placed very far apart and on the floor, so from where I was standing, I could barely hear the speakers, and even though I was only a few feet away from him, the pickup was horrible. If I would've had the Azden SMX10, I still would have gotten stereo but with a decent voice pickup. Of course a true mono directional in that case would have been the best choice if I had only been concerned about picking up his voice, but then when the children in front of him clapped, it would sound awful, with all the clapping coming from the center channel. Same thing as later in the evening when they started dancing and I was moving around camera on hand, a mono mic would sound flat and give you no sense of realism when watched later with the sound coming out of anything better than a small TV set.

That's why I really would like to get that adapter for the SMX10 to record stereo, because it's a great microphone and it's like the best of both worlds, good voice pickup without sacrificing stereo.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Just use two XLR mikes, one for each channel. You can buy decent quality mikes for a few dollars to anything you can afford.

Problem solved.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Just ouf of curiosity, may I ask what you're recording that requires a stereo mic?

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

I don't have anything planned at this point, but if you read my posts above you'll get a good idea.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

How about 1 of these Hosatech Stereo Breakout, 3.5 mm TRSF to Dual RCA - 3.5 mm TRSF to Dual RCA plus 2 of these Hosatech Adaptor, RCA to XLR3M - Adaptors. I HATE stacking connectors and adapters but if you're careful it will work. You could also go with this http://www.hosatech.com/product/3399...l_XLR3M%2C_2_m plus a barrel gender changer http://www.hosatech.com/product/3253...mm_TRS_to_Same Or clip off the TRSM and replace it with a TRSF from Radio Snak, easy soldering job, take about 10 minutes if that.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

One last time I have to say that even if the mic is not moving whether on a camera or on a stand, if the subject is voices talking, stereo is the wrong way. Even without any movement, recording voice with stereo mics makes the voice lose focus, and you pick up a lot more room which makes it harder to discern the words. My only exception on that might be at a play, putting the stereo mic right up to the front/center of the stage. But for the most part a stereo mic is just for music and ambient stuff you want the stereo effect on. You seem to be in love with the idea of having a stereo mic. I say try testing out a stereo vs a mono mic with speech. There is zero advantage with stereo. The mics on cameras are stereo because they mostly just pick up everything around the camera - what's in front, what's in back, on the sides, noise, everything. Sure it's awesome to have a stereo mic, but it shouldn't be the go-to mic for a lot of stuff. I guess you will figure it out empirically when you get a chance to hear the difference. If I were you I'd be getting a good hypercardioid mic first. That's what I use 95% of the time.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

As Chad said "...for the last tine..."

The relatively fixed perception of an audio image is a well known physiological fact, also well known by sound guys. The ears work hand in glove with the brain to maintain a consistent perception of a relatively fixed space. When you turn your head, the brain knows that you are turning it and the stereo image of the room stays fixed - you can close your eyes and turn your head and you know that you're turning your head - if you kept your head fixed and the stereo image of the room revolved by the same amount, you would perceive it differently - you would think the room was spinning.

OK - here you are in your living room watching your 180 inch TV from a comfortable chair 10 or 15 feet away. Do you turn your head when a person walks from one side of the screen to the other? Not likely - you mostly move your eyes.

So if you don't swing your head by more than a degree or two and the stereo image swings by 60 degrees - guess what - you'll hear/feel the room spinning. Not good.

Anyhow. best of luck in your endeavors.

Sayonara

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Chad, I understand perfectly the advantage of using a mono mic to capture human voice. But unless an event is 100 % speech and nothing but speech, I'd rather use a directional stereo. Mono sound for things like clapping, audience sound, nature sounds, etc, drives me crazy. It takes away any illusion of being there. I would absolutely hate recording a whole wedding with a mono microphone for example. That's why I have two digital recorders, the Zoom H1 and H2, that I put in closer locations to get the voice in mono. That can be by using a lavalier microphone with one of them in the groom's pocket, or like I did in a wedding last year, the H1 placed behind a floral arrangement that was right on top of the pastor and the couple. So that gave me perfect voice capture that even if I would've had the best mono directional microphone, I wouldn't have gotten from where I was standing with the camera. Of course, I had two cameras recording in stereo so I got good sound for the clapping and the ambient nature sounds.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

I think you guys must have your brains wired differently than mine. When I turned my head around, my own stereo image turns around with me. It would be very confusing if it didn't. The stereo imaging in your brain is how you are able to pinpoint where sounds are coming from, and one of the things needed to keep balance. It's even more important for blind people. If you turn your head around and your stereo imaging doesn't change, then something is not right.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Thanks Steve, I think the first option with RCA would probably be more steady than the coupler. The second one would work if I got another stereo mic that has a jack in its back, unlike the SMX10 which has a cable coming out of it to a male plug.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

That's what a barrel coupler does ... it's female on both sides so you can use it to plug two male terminated cables to each other end to end.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Oh, I was talking about the stereo breakout cable. Or at least a similar version, because that one is two meters, obviously too long for what I need. The Stereo Breakout, 3.5 mm TRSF to Dual RCA doesn't say how long it is, but if it's like the picture, it's very short and perfect for this use.

In fact, this could be a pretty good solution overall, because I could have on the camera both the Azden SMX10 (stereo) connected using these adapter cables, attached to the camera on the shoe, and then the mono Azden SGM-1X on the clamp holder. That way, if I do an event that has a lot of speech I can use the mono one and then if it changes to something else where I need stereo, I only have to change some cables quickly and that's it.

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

BTW, the Hosa GXM-133 is $11 on their website, but $5.08 on Amazon. And I enjoy the benefit of a girlfriend who pays for Amazon Prime :)

Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
 

Hi Chad, your post has made me think. I have a Rode SVM and have been using to record interviews (alone). The scenario is always outdoors in the countryside, with the mic mounted on the camera (HV40).

I use a wide angle lens so am able to get pretty close to the interviewee, close enough indeed to pick up a good signal i.e. about 2 feet or so. It's important that I capture well the ambience of the natural environment we're in hence the stereo mic. The camera is static on a tripod.

So far I thought the sound was pretty decent, natural and pleasant and clear! Would you say I was wrong headed here?

Also if I combined the stereo signal to mono in post could that help focus the sound or is it too late for that?

Geoff