Tascam DR-10L Digital Recorder?

[Robert Knecht Schmidt]

I'm looking for an on-the-go personal audio recording solution for recording conversations while walking outside (audio-only, no video). Size/weight of the recorder is of prime importance: I want a recorder I can hand to a subject and which the subject can stuff in a pants or jacket pocket without it being ungainly.

At first I looked into buying a Zoom F2 Field Recorder, but multiple online reviews indicated it had problems with the lav connector that caused audio dropout, which I would find to be unacceptable.

Then I looked into the Tascam DR-10L Digital Recorder and the online reviews seem phenomenal. The only drawback I can see is that it doesn't wirelessly transmit so that monitoring can be done remotely. Does anyone have any experience with this device, or any of the competing devices? I'm mindful of the fact that this appears to be a five-year-old product and there surely must be newer-technology options.

Would I have issues mixing audio from two of these recorders when two subjects were walking and talking with each other? Should I stick with the included lav mic or upgrade to a different lav mic? If I wanted to do "man-on-street" interviews, should I just carry an extra recorder in my pocket and hold its lav near the subject?

[Rick Reineke]

If you wish to purchase a 'recording' transmitter (Tx), your only option (in the US) is from Zaxcom, which patented a recording Tx. Tascam came out with a recorder with a through-put to a Tx (locking 3.5mm and a TA-5 model) and Zaxcom promptly sued them (Zaxcom v.Teac N. America). Another popular builder of budget gear came out with one as well, and soon after went out of business.. I do not know if Zaxcom had any impact on that outcome) IMHO, Zaxcom only alienated customers who may move up to their costly pro level gear in the future. (sorry Glenn)
See this thread in the DVX audio forum for possible options.

[Greg Miller]

What's the ultimate use of the recordings? Broadcast? Commercial audio product of some sort? Note-taking? Reference?

What audio quality do you need? "Voice quality"? "NPR interview quality"? What file format? Can you tolerate high-bitrate MP3? Low-bitrate WAV?

What environment are you recording in? Quiet, noisy, indoors, outdoors, harsh weather?

Do you need to use a lav mic? What about a pocket size, or clip-on type, recorder with an integral mic?

[Robert Knecht Schmidt]

Podcast-type usage. Would prefer "NPR radio quality".

Outdoors, possibly with road traffic, but likely never harsh weather. Maybe windy.

Clip-on type recorder with integral mic would probably be fine, but I do want to get high-quality recordings.

[Greg Miller]

Just thinking about various alternatives here. You may well have already covered this ground. The "NPR quality" is going to limit your choices. (Actually IMHO sometimes their quality is "too realistic" in that I hear a lot of room rumble or other LF noise that detracts from the intelligibility.)

There are some surprisingly good consumer "voice recorders" that are definitely pocket size. They are usually longer but thinner than the DR-10L. Some folks tend to use them for shooting weddings. I've seen some Sony models mentioned more than once on this forum, and lately I've found a few Philips models that I like. I don't think any of their internal mics have any significant wind protection, and you'll have some clothing noise if you use them in a jacket or shirt pocket. I also can't think of any of this type that has a locking 3.5mm mic jack. That would seem to rule these out for you.

There are also a few really small recorders that clip on to a pocket, collar, etc. A few years ago someone posted a link (now dead) to a video documentary with audio recorded using these recorders (specifically a Sansa Clip - slightly bigger than a matchbook) on each participant. They actually clipped *two* recorders on each person, for backup. The docu sound was surprisingly clear and good, but definitely had its limits. These have no wind protection, and this particular model has no gain adjustment, so NG in noisy environments. Finally, I'm not aware of any clip form factor recorder that has an external mic input.

To approach "NPR quality" and have wind protection, I think you'll need a decent external mic. And an XLR connector starts to make the recorder rather big to fit comfortably in a pocket. So the DR-10L starts to look pretty good. But of course if you strap on a separate transmitter it gets rather unwieldy.

Apologies if you've already thought of all the above details.

I'm sure you'll get more specific good info, e.g. regarding choice of microphone, or maybe an obscure or new "miracle recorder." It will be interesting to hear the suggestions.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Practically any digital recorder with a decent lav mic will deliver good results. The biggest downside to digital recorder approach, if you're not monitoring the recording you will not be able to catch problems until it's too late when you're home and editing. If this isn't screw up recording an interview and you're fired type of job you have the luxury of starting off with a inexpensive recorder/lav setup and learn as you go. If warranted then upgrade your equipment to address any short comings your budget allows.
There are 3 approaches (cheapest to most expensive):
1. pocket recorder w/lav on subject
2. recorder with you with long wired mic or lav to subject
3. recorder with you with wireless mic system

[Allan Black]

My son in law reports for the ABC here and does all his TV audio commentary and some radio interviews on his Apple iPhone. Then he edits and phones them in for b/cast.

He has an audio app. don’t know which one. Rode make a couple of mics. for this kind of work.

Cheers.

[Greg Miller]

By the way, conventional recorders with 3.5mm input use a TRS jack. T (tip) is the audio input, S (sleeve, the metal body of the jack) is ground. R (ring) -- if it's present at all -- is used only for the right channel of a stereo signal.

However, many newer phones use a TRRS jack. The connections are entirely different: The *second* ring (TRRS) is ground, and the sleeve (S) is the phone's audio input.

Some mics have TRS plugs (or maybe just TS for mono mics). But some mics have TRRS. Either type of plug will seem to fit OK into either type of jack. But electrically they are *not* interchangeable. So if you want an external mic to use with a phone, be sure to get one with a TRRS plug.

(And some phones use USB port for mic input ... an entirely different ball game.)

[Allan Black]

It can sure get complicated. Not knowing the Ops phone, here’s some Rode tips for recording ...

https://www.rode.com/blog/all/Top-Mi...ng-With-iPhone

Cheers.

[Robert Knecht Schmidt]

If I were to go with the DR-10L, what would be the best way to edit the dialogue from two separate recorders? Would I be able to just fade back and forth between the two tracks? Would there be synch issues between the two tracks? Could I just mix the two tracks together without fading back and forth between them?

[Greg Miller]

Allan, that's a nice collection of mics from Rode.

Robert,

Copy the two files onto two tracks (think of left and right channel) in the editing software of your choice, anywhere from Audacity (free) on up. Of course you'll need to sync them manually at the beginning. Depending on the recorders and length of the take, you may need to slide one track a bit now and then, to keep them close to sync. If you just mix the two tracks, the final mix will have twice as much background noise, and sync will be more critical. Of course fading back and forth will take more time and effort. SOP would be to have the final mix in mono.

It occurs to me, too, that if you *really* want RF monitoring, you can use bluetooth pretty inexpensively, but it will look rather "home brewed." If the transmitter is stuffed in a pocket, next to the recorder, the range & reliability might be affected. It depends how much you want to spend and how "clean & professional" you want the final rig to look.

[Robert Knecht Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Rick Reineke

thread in the DVX audio forum

I've learned a lot from that DVX audio forum thread. Thank you, Rick.