Add audio in POST with 16 bit or only 12?

[Joe Desmond]

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6-bit stereo (48kHz, 2 channel) for the highest sound quality. "16-bit" refers to the amount of data recorded and the range of the data (16-bit converted to decimal numbers means that there are 65,536 different numbers that can represent any sample). 16-bit represents the most data for the truest and fullest range of sound. DV specifications call for a sampling rate of 48kHz (48 thousand times per second), 44.1kHz or 32kHz. (DAT uses 48KHz sampling and CDs use 44.1kHz sampling).

12-bit stereo (32kHz, 2 channels) records on two of the four available channels (Stereo 1), leaving two other channels (Stereo 2) available for the addition of sound, music, narration, etc.

The 16-bit mode produces CD quality sound, two channel sound on one track. The 12-bit mode divides the audio track into two, recording two channels on one track while leaving the remaining track open for post production audio recording with separate editing gear. In other words, you can add new sound later using a DV VCR. You cannot add new sound to a tape using the XL1.

The above taken from: http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article69.php

So I can ONLY add/sample/mix/etc sound/music/dialogue in POST if I use 12 bit audio on my XL-2??

Or can I also add/sample/mix/etc sound/music/dialogue if I use 16-bit??

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And related: If I don't plan on using more than 1 mic, what would the settings look like? 16-bit or would I have to worry about the channels with 12-bit? The microphone we plan on using is a MKH-60 Hypercardioid (they say it is a typo and that it is really a SUPERcardioid) MKH-60 with 48v Phantom power...

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MKH-60 Hypercardioid (they say it is a typo and that it is really a SUPERcardioid) MKH-60 with 48v Phantom power AND a boom... = Good to use in a room, or indoors, in a regular house, with dialogue coming mostly from one character and sometime between two characters?

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Would you use a Zeppeln and windjammer indoors as well or just have the mic on the boomkit alone?

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THANKS!

Seriously-- Thanks in advance... I won't be editing but since I do not have an editor at the moment, I'd just like to shoot this RIGHT and have it ready for when I do find one...

Cheers.

[Seth Bloombaum]

Originally Posted by Joe Desmond

...Or can I also add/sample/mix/etc sound/music/dialogue if I use 16-bit??...

...MKH-60 Hypercardioid (they say it is a typo and that it is really a SUPERcardioid) MKH-60 with 48v Phantom power AND a boom... = Good to use in a room, or indoors, in a regular house, with dialogue coming mostly from one character and sometime between two characters?...

...Would you use a Zeppeln and windjammer indoors as well or just have the mic on the boomkit alone?

Record in 16bit. 12bit is only for use with recorders that have access to the 4 channels, none do (that I've seen). Additional tracks will be added, synced and mixed in post... to a mono or stereo track - no problem with any NLE your editor is likely to use, such as FCP, Premiere, Vegas, AVID, etc.

Get that MKH-60 in the right place held in the hands of a boom operator who is wearing headphones and it should be fine. Granted, some experience is required to get the mike in the right place.

There are two reasons that Zep and Windjammer are sometimes used indoors. Breezes from fans, HVAC systems, whatever, and "apparent" breeze from quickly moving the mic. Usually, the foam windscreen is enough to deal with these, if they are a problem at all. (monitor ALL sound).

The other reason to use the heavier wind protection indoors is to help match the sound with outdoors recordings where the zep/fur were used.

So, you'll see indoors recordings with no windscreen, with a foam, with a zep, and with fur... depending.

[Joe Desmond]

Thanks-- That makes sense.

Additional question-- In terms of connecting the MKH-60, all I need is to plug it into the XLR port of my Canon XL-2 and switch on the Phantom power +48v?? (No amp or blah is needed?)

and what is a "Rycote" setup? Is it just a pistol grip, shockmount, zeppeli, windjammer or softie?

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And in regards to setting the Mic up... I would power the XL-2 off, plug the mic into the XLR port, switch the REAR thing on, then power the camera on, then switch the Phantom power on. Correct?

1) More importantly, I am to choose 16bit audio?
2) What about setting the rear XLR gainup (when and why would I need to switch it to 12dB?)
3) When/why would I need to use the MIC ATT setting?

Thanks a lot btw.

Cheers.

[Seth Bloombaum]

<i>...connecting the MKH-60, all I need is to plug it into the XLR port of my Canon XL-2 and switch on the Phantom power +48v?? </i>

Yup.

A Rycote is a brand - they make good zeppelins and fur, as well as pistol grips with shock mounts. Yes, they make softies too. rycote.com


Record in 16 bit.

Your power-up sequence doesn't need to be quite so complicated. Just plug it in.

Not familiar with the XL2, but, in general, mike attenuation "att" is used when the output of the mic is too hot for the preamp. If your manual gain control is turned below 1/3 and/or peaks sound distorted, try switching in the att.

Rear xlr gainup? Sounds like more gain to me...??? Unlikely to need more gain with an MKH60... Read the manual. If you don't have one you can find it online at canon.com. Or maybe someone else will chime in here.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Joe Desmond

And in regards to setting the Mic up... I would power the XL-2 off, plug the mic into the XLR port, switch the REAR thing on, then power the camera on, then switch the Phantom power on. Correct?

1) More importantly, I am to choose 16bit audio?
2) What about setting the rear XLR gainup (when and why would I need to switch it to 12dB?)
3) When/why would I need to use the MIC ATT setting?

Thanks a lot btw.

Cheers.

You don't have to worry about sequences with Phantom Power. If your mic requires phantom power turn the +48Vswitch on the back of the handle ON. Turn ATT (Attenuation) OFF, most of the time.

Plug the mic and cable to the first rear input.
Flip the XL2 door open and flip the lower Audio Input 1 into Audio 1 REAR position.
Set the Rec Level to M for manual
Flip the REC CH SELECT to CH1-CH2 and adjust the input with CH 1 gain control.
This brings the audio from Mic 1 input to BOTH channels.

Where are you seeing 12dB?

The ATT settings are used if you overload the input by being in a very noisy area or if someone is yelling into the mic.

Sit down with the manual. Read it. Then read it again. It's all in there.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Barry Werger]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

You don't have to worry about sequences with Phantom Power. If your mic requires phantom power turn the +48Vswitch on the back of the handle ON.

Man, I don't want to sound like I'm doggin' Ty, but:

NEVER connect or disconnect a mic while phantom power is on. Bad for the mic. Potentially bad for the camera. Bad for your ears if you're wearing headphones at the time. Bad!

[Ty Ford]

No doggin' felt. I've been doing it this way for years (with the pot turned down) with no problems. Never broke anything.

Ty Ford

[Joe Desmond]

The mic works.

It is in 16bit.

IMPORTANT!!

One WEIRD thing. I only get audio in one side of the headphones...

Is this normal or am I doing anything wrong (the stock MIC I turned off and now I am using that MKH with Phantom Power)...

Thanks..

[Ty Ford]

Hi Joe,

Let me guess. The stock mic is stereo. The Sennheiser is mono.

Ty Ford

[Joe Desmond]

Sorry about that.

So I saw that it was selected at Rec at 1 channel or 2 channel. Changing this won't affect anything will it?

And did I make a huge mistake in choosing this mic which is Mono?

(It sounded great last night, just, through one side of the Sony V6 headphones only, and someone else pointed that out to me!)...

Thanks

[Ty Ford]

Joe,

Did you do as I asked:

Plug the mic and cable to the first rear input.
Flip the XL2 door open and flip the lower Audio Input 1 into Audio 1 REAR position.
Set the Rec Level to M for manual
Flip the REC CH SELECT to CH1-CH2 and adjust the input with CH 1 gain control.
This brings the audio from Mic 1 input to BOTH channels.

Ty Ford

[Joe Desmond]

Aye aye.

Thanks. I overlooked everything but that flip to CH1-CH2 switch.

Sorry about that-- It's been hectic... OK I did it now.

In regards to adjusting the audio, during nomal dialogues, I am to keep it between the green dot and the red dot (without having the red dot show?)-- If so, I find this super hard just because with the highs of the normal dialogue they occasionally max out and hit the red, and if I try to compensate for that in advance by keeping it down, it is hard to reach the green dot with the majority of the dialogue.

Should I just keep it in AUTO?

==

I also noticed if I switch the rear-mic ATT on, the sound is a lot cleaner and a lot of the outside sound isn't caught. Should I avoid this (as this also seems it harder to compensate for both the lows and the highs)... I just want to capture good, clean sound, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

Cheers.

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Joe Desmond

Aye aye.

Thanks. I overlooked everything but that flip to CH1-CH2 switch.

Sorry about that-- It's been hectic... OK I did it now.

In regards to adjusting the audio, during nomal dialogues, I am to keep it between the green dot and the red dot (without having the red dot show?)-- If so, I find this super hard just because with the highs of the normal dialogue they occasionally max out and hit the red, and if I try to compensate for that in advance by keeping it down, it is hard to reach the green dot with the majority of the dialogue.

Should I just keep it in AUTO?

==

I also noticed if I switch the rear-mic ATT on, the sound is a lot cleaner and a lot of the outside sound isn't caught. Should I avoid this (as this also seems it harder to compensate for both the lows and the highs)... I just want to capture good, clean sound, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

Cheers.

Try to set the audio level so that the peaks reach -12 to -9. This has to be done in the digital realm because of possible distortion. This will leave you with some 'headroom' for transient peaks and you'll still be able to bring the audio level up in post if need be. Don't use attenuation unless absolutely necessary. You'll end up having to compensate by increasing the gain control on the camera which will introduce more noise from the XL-2 pre-amps.

-gb-

[Joe Desmond]

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Try to set the audio level so that the peaks reach -12 to -9.
-gb-

How do I do that?

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Joe Desmond

Aye aye.

Thanks. I overlooked everything but that flip to CH1-CH2 switch.

Sorry about that-- It's been hectic... OK I did it now.

In regards to adjusting the audio, during nomal dialogues, I am to keep it between the green dot and the red dot (without having the red dot show?)-- If so, I find this super hard just because with the highs of the normal dialogue they occasionally max out and hit the red, and if I try to compensate for that in advance by keeping it down, it is hard to reach the green dot with the majority of the dialogue.

Should I just keep it in AUTO?

==

I also noticed if I switch the rear-mic ATT on, the sound is a lot cleaner and a lot of the outside sound isn't caught. Should I avoid this (as this also seems it harder to compensate for both the lows and the highs)... I just want to capture good, clean sound, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

Cheers.

Unless the levels too loud, don't use the ATT. You are being fooled by thinking that using it reduces other noises and not what you want to record.

Regards,

Ty