Sumix 2/3" 1920x1080 CMOS

Jose A. Garcia · March 13th, 2008, 09:30 AM

Paul, as soon as I get the camera, I'll start testing it and posting as many clips as I can. Let me know if you want me to do any other specific test.

I also think the quality of these lenses is quite close to digital cinema standards. If you think about it, tack sharp images are a priority in machine vision systems. In fact I think these lenses lack the organic (and a little more soft) feeling you get with old 16mm lenses, which for me is also very interesting. I've read things about old Angenieux super 16mm zooms which can capture very beautiful images with a great balance between sharpness and softness, impossible to get with new lenses without post work. But anyway, I prefer to have my clips as clean and sharp as possible and then get them dirty in post.

And Daniel, it's great to know there will be more independent software projects for this camera. Can we expect a public release for people like me who can't write a single line of code?

I also hope I can get my cam soon. I've mailed Farhad asking about it and got no reply yet. I paid for mine about 10 days ago and I just can't wait to get my hands on it. How long did it take for you Daniel?

Daniel Lipats · March 13th, 2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

And Daniel, it's great to know there will be more independent software projects for this camera. Can we expect a public release for people like me who can't write a single line of code?

I plan to release the software as open source, but it may be a while till then. Right now im going to concentrate on getting the camera ready for production.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

How long did it take for you Daniel?

It took a little while. I first contacted Farhad with my intent to buy about 25 days ago. Everything was settled about 14 days ago.

The camera was shipped this Tuesday and I got the invoice a little later. It just came in earlier today. Well not quite... FedEx could not find my home so im going to pick it up at 4:00 from the location in town.

If things go well I will have some images/videos to post here soon.

Jose A. Garcia · March 13th, 2008, 02:08 PM

It's already there!! I can't wait to see clips!

Ok, so if I paid 10 days ago... in about 5 to 10 days more I may have it here (if everythings goes ok).

Please post something as soon as you get home with the cam.

Jose A. Garcia · March 13th, 2008, 06:11 PM

Ok, I got a mail from Farhad saying they'll ship the cam next monday. Can't wait!!

Samuel Hinterlang · March 14th, 2008, 12:18 AM

Hey Jose,

Is this the lens you got?
http://www.avsupply.com/details/m6z1212.shtml

I'm seeing prices all over the place, so wanted to know what you paid for it too.

I might just be with you guys if the footage looks good.

Jose A. Garcia · March 15th, 2008, 07:37 AM

Hi Samuel,

Yes, that's the lens I bought. I paid $297 plus shipment and I find it quite cheap since I've been told this' one of the best possible choices for 2/3" HD sensors in terms of quality/price. I know Fujinon is even better, but they didn't have anything like this, so the options were this zoom or three Fujinon primes. Personally I prefer a zoom, so I can have every single focal lenght from 12,5 to 75mm.

Before anyone points it out, I know there're very high quality super16mm lenses from old cameras out there giving better (or more cinematic) results at similar prices or even cheaper. Let alone the ones which are even more expensive. But I also knew there're many people trying to sell crap and since I don't know much about old lenses, I wanted to start with this one. My next lens will probably be an old Angenieux zoom and I'll ask a lot before buying.

Daniel Lipats · March 15th, 2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

So Daniel... What's the first thing you shot with yours??

I'm replying here because I feel its a more appropriate place.

Note that my camera was shipped with the old, incorrect filter. It cuts too much blue and red, I should be getting the new filter from Sumix sometime soon...

Meanwhile, any results I post should not be used to judge the overall capabilities of the camera. In addition to that, i'm still just learning how to use it so my white balance and other settings are likely to be incorrect.

Here are some test grabs from earlier today. Each is accompanied by a quick auto levels, contrast, and color (cc in file name).

http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/per...s/FRAME_24.jpg
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/per...RAME_24-cc.jpg

http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/per...s/FRAME_30.jpg
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/per...RAME_30-cc.jpg

http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/per...s/FRAME_34.jpg
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/per...RAME_34-cc.jpg

Not aiming for anything artistic, did not have time to do a big setup. Only lit with 2 150w Fresnel lights. Had to turn the gain up considerably.
Used a TV zoom lens.

Jose A. Garcia · March 16th, 2008, 01:51 PM

You're right... Too much green. But it looks promising... Way better than any HDV cam, as expected, and closer to a DSLR image. What kind of tv lens are you using? It looks extremely sharp! (Notice the upper leafs in the second and third image)

I'd like to see a DOF test with a focal lenght of 50mm so we can see what are those 2/3" capable of.

Other than that it looks like we've got a really good cam here. As with all digital cams, it has little problems with highlights, but that's something we're used to and can be retouched in post.

Farhad Towfiq · March 16th, 2008, 02:52 PM

The absorptive filter on this camera takes out more than 60% of blue light that the Altasens sensor is sensitive to. We have been experimenting with two other filters. Although they are much better, they are still not satisfactory. One is Reflective IRC30 which has narrow acceptance angle not suitable for small F# when used inside the camera. The other one is absorptive IRC20 which is still quite thick and not optimal. We either solve this problem or you must use IR cut filters in front of your lenses.
We are now attempting to design a reflective filter with several coating layers that will accept sharp angles with a final hard coat that would allow easy cleaning. This may take a while before we can produce such filter at low cost.
Would you help us to decide on parameters of a basic lens that you would find useful--such parameters as FOV, F#, focusing range, depth of focus at different focuses? Putting the filtering inside the lens will make it easier as it can be placed where light rays are most parallel.

Jose A. Garcia · March 16th, 2008, 03:15 PM

So which one is the filter you're including with my cam?

Farhad Towfiq · March 16th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Jose, that will be IRC20 for now. To be replaced later.

Daniel Lipats · March 16th, 2008, 07:54 PM

I used two lenses that day. One was a Computar lens which gave me some results I was not pleased with. The lens used in the images posted reads TV ZOOM LENS T6X13.5 13.5-81mm 1:1.8 Made in Japan. I see no make written on it.

I'm considering buying the same Computar M6Z1212 lens posted earlier.

Looking forward to Luc's recording software, hope he has something for us soon.

Jose A. Garcia · March 16th, 2008, 09:42 PM

If you wait a few days I can post images shot with the Computar M6Z1212 zoom.

Jay Burlage · March 17th, 2008, 07:28 PM

It's been a while... glad I checked in on this thread today!

Jose - can't wait to see what you get out of the sumix!

Could you super smart guys tell me if this is possible to 'bracket' multiple shot sequences say -3eV,-1.5eV,0,1.5eV,3eV and simply capture the sequenced bracketed frames to a drive(laptop). I'm still looking for a way to do this custom via a camera like the SMX-12A2... Is it possible?

I'm dieing to do some more HDR experimentation (I've been playing with motion CGI light probes) and If I Could get into the 5-FPS range I'd be so thrilled!

Am I dreaming??

Jose A. Garcia · March 17th, 2008, 10:01 PM

mmm... I don't quite get what you're trying to do... Do you mean shooting the same sequence, with the same camera but with 5 different exposition values, just like a HDR photo?

If that's what you mean, I don't think that's possible.

March 13th, 2008, 09:30 AM	#151
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Paul, as soon as I get the camera, I'll start testing it and posting as many clips as I can. Let me know if you want me to do any other specific test. I also think the quality of these lenses is quite close to digital cinema standards. If you think about it, tack sharp images are a priority in machine vision systems. In fact I think these lenses lack the organic (and a little more soft) feeling you get with old 16mm lenses, which for me is also very interesting. I've read things about old Angenieux super 16mm zooms which can capture very beautiful images with a great balance between sharpness and softness, impossible to get with new lenses without post work. But anyway, I prefer to have my clips as clean and sharp as possible and then get them dirty in post. And Daniel, it's great to know there will be more independent software projects for this camera. Can we expect a public release for people like me who can't write a single line of code? I also hope I can get my cam soon. I've mailed Farhad asking about it and got no reply yet. I paid for mine about 10 days ago and I just can't wait to get my hands on it. How long did it take for you Daniel?

March 13th, 2008, 02:08 PM	#153
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	It's already there!! I can't wait to see clips! Ok, so if I paid 10 days ago... in about 5 to 10 days more I may have it here (if everythings goes ok). Please post something as soon as you get home with the cam.

March 13th, 2008, 06:11 PM	#154
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Ok, I got a mail from Farhad saying they'll ship the cam next monday. Can't wait!!

March 14th, 2008, 12:18 AM	#155
Samuel Hinterlang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 79	Hey Jose, Is this the lens you got? http://www.avsupply.com/details/m6z1212.shtml I'm seeing prices all over the place, so wanted to know what you paid for it too. I might just be with you guys if the footage looks good.

March 15th, 2008, 07:37 AM	#156
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Hi Samuel, Yes, that's the lens I bought. I paid $297 plus shipment and I find it quite cheap since I've been told this' one of the best possible choices for 2/3" HD sensors in terms of quality/price. I know Fujinon is even better, but they didn't have anything like this, so the options were this zoom or three Fujinon primes. Personally I prefer a zoom, so I can have every single focal lenght from 12,5 to 75mm. Before anyone points it out, I know there're very high quality super16mm lenses from old cameras out there giving better (or more cinematic) results at similar prices or even cheaper. Let alone the ones which are even more expensive. But I also knew there're many people trying to sell crap and since I don't know much about old lenses, I wanted to start with this one. My next lens will probably be an old Angenieux zoom and I'll ask a lot before buying.

March 16th, 2008, 01:51 PM	#158
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	You're right... Too much green. But it looks promising... Way better than any HDV cam, as expected, and closer to a DSLR image. What kind of tv lens are you using? It looks extremely sharp! (Notice the upper leafs in the second and third image) I'd like to see a DOF test with a focal lenght of 50mm so we can see what are those 2/3" capable of. Other than that it looks like we've got a really good cam here. As with all digital cams, it has little problems with highlights, but that's something we're used to and can be retouched in post.

March 16th, 2008, 02:52 PM	#159
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	The absorptive filter on this camera takes out more than 60% of blue light that the Altasens sensor is sensitive to. We have been experimenting with two other filters. Although they are much better, they are still not satisfactory. One is Reflective IRC30 which has narrow acceptance angle not suitable for small F# when used inside the camera. The other one is absorptive IRC20 which is still quite thick and not optimal. We either solve this problem or you must use IR cut filters in front of your lenses. We are now attempting to design a reflective filter with several coating layers that will accept sharp angles with a final hard coat that would allow easy cleaning. This may take a while before we can produce such filter at low cost. Would you help us to decide on parameters of a basic lens that you would find useful--such parameters as FOV, F#, focusing range, depth of focus at different focuses? Putting the filtering inside the lens will make it easier as it can be placed where light rays are most parallel.

March 16th, 2008, 03:15 PM	#160
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	So which one is the filter you're including with my cam?

March 16th, 2008, 03:42 PM	#161
Farhad Towfiq Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 63	Jose, that will be IRC20 for now. To be replaced later.

March 16th, 2008, 07:54 PM	#162
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	I used two lenses that day. One was a Computar lens which gave me some results I was not pleased with. The lens used in the images posted reads TV ZOOM LENS T6X13.5 13.5-81mm 1:1.8 Made in Japan. I see no make written on it. I'm considering buying the same Computar M6Z1212 lens posted earlier. Looking forward to Luc's recording software, hope he has something for us soon.

March 16th, 2008, 09:42 PM	#163
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	If you wait a few days I can post images shot with the Computar M6Z1212 zoom.

March 17th, 2008, 07:28 PM	#164
Jay Burlage Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 39	It's been a while... glad I checked in on this thread today! Jose - can't wait to see what you get out of the sumix! Could you super smart guys tell me if this is possible to 'bracket' multiple shot sequences say -3eV,-1.5eV,0,1.5eV,3eV and simply capture the sequenced bracketed frames to a drive(laptop). I'm still looking for a way to do this custom via a camera like the SMX-12A2... Is it possible? I'm dieing to do some more HDR experimentation (I've been playing with motion CGI light probes) and If I Could get into the 5-FPS range I'd be so thrilled! Am I dreaming??

March 17th, 2008, 10:01 PM	#165
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	mmm... I don't quite get what you're trying to do... Do you mean shooting the same sequence, with the same camera but with 5 different exposition values, just like a HDR photo? If that's what you mean, I don't think that's possible.