Take -- welcome. I don't recall a Pike camera being used on here, so this is a useful addition to these efforts towards low cost (but ambitious) HD solutions. When you get going you might like to start your own thread for it. Is it easy to get Firewire 800 into a Windows laptop: I haven't seen it specified -- though I haven't looked lately. Or does the camera use an onboard frame grabber?

All the best,
John.

Hello John,

I will be using a MacBook Pro for capture, it has a firewire 800 port. I will use the ExpressCard/34 slot to put in a eSATA card to connect to a nakid harddisk.

The camera only has a small internal buffer to for just a couple of frames.

I will look into creating my own thread abut the camera.

Cheers,
Take

Yeah, I would recommend starting a new thread. There are separate threads for most projects on here, like the Sumix camera, Elphel 333 camera, etc.

I'll start a new thread for my own camera system.

But one more thing which is more generic. Has anyone experimented with cooling their camera? Most astronomers who buy a camera head for their sky photography try to cool their camera to below freezing point.

A couple of degrees will remove a lot of noise from the CCD sensor. The fan needed for this makes noise which the sound person wouldn't like, but maybe you can disable the fan and peltier during the take and cool the camera in between takes.

http://www.outcastsoft.com/AstroImag...Cooler_MJA.pdf

Cheers,
Take

See other digital cinema camera thread, but it went nowhere.

Here are also 2 links for cooling with peltier and liquid:

http://www.pk3.org/Astro/do_it_yourself.htm

http://www.konradhorn.de/seite4.htm

Daniel

Hello Solomon,

I was wondering, the F-mount is larger than a C-mount, so wouldn't a F-to-C-adapter cause vignetting itself? Or would such an adapter be fine on a 1" sensor?

The F0.85 you mention are out of production, from what I read their website. I've been looking around for C-mount lenses, but there are only a few that would qualify for such a large sensor and new or second hand they are also quite expensive. And I wonder if a Super16 lens would be large enough for a 1" sensor (they also almost never appear with C-mount either)

If I look at ebay-like sites there are a lot of SLR lenses available for little money, so I can create quite a collection of those. The size of a 35 mm lens probably also makes it easier to focus than a small c-mount.

Does any one have some ideas for what I should do, I am planning to buy the camera quite soon, so I need to know if I should go for a direct F-mount or if a F-to-C-adapter would work good enough with a 1" sensor.

Back from the defunct. After my computer crashed and I lost the main drive, and the backup drive, I have been very sick for weeks, and am still restoring my system and past couple of years of camera related project information.

Take, there are lists that give you actual sizes of film and sensor formats on the web. If you google around and try wikipedia you might be able to find something.

An interestign side note:
 

This is an very old idea I had from years ago, early 90's, looks like Apple is trying to patent it:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05...ontrol_patent/

It is really the best innovative way for simple out of the way control and many of my devices where unfortunately planned to use it. It is not my last control technology by far. I think I might know of somebody that also publicly had an similar idea.

I have been applying these control technologies to Digital Cinema camera designs as well.

This sort of thing has happened many times before, and with Apple to. Shame having all the talent and no money or health to take advantage of it.

When they make an device using this with an camera, it will be interesting.


The new fastest laptop drive:
Travelstar 200GB 7K200
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/10/h...rpm-bulk-encr/
http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/sit...ecae2eac4f0a0/
http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Existing FPGA/Software lossless Bayer compression project up for takers.
 

Zolt, over at the Elphel 333 cinema camera project thread is offering up his RAW lossless compression project to anybody that is interested. I think it is both software and FPGA fro use on the Elphel 353 camera with internal hard disk, but I guess it can be made to work for any camera.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....&postcount=683

It is an bit crazy over there, lots of people doing different things, but where it is going still hasn't panned out yet. The camera is available the projects are not finished yet. Still, this is looking more and more like the sort of camera system everybody talks about of needing, customisable, FPGA, and cheapish. Unfortunately, they are still using Micron Sensors, and an better sensor would be nice, though an Micron should be as good or better, than many pro-sumer cameras. The Micron sensors today are more advanced than the ones we started with though.

If anybody is interested, please contact Zolt.

3D & Low light Senors. Where has the market been, and where is it going?
 

Here is an multiple lens 3D 1.1Mp camera sensor (Is that right?).
http://www.technologyreview.com/read....aspx?id=18772

Here is full video at 1 Lux sensor, for low light shooting:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=94917
Sounds similar to that previous sensor I mentioned a while ago.

As you may all know, Sony is bringing out an lower cost prosumer XDCAMHD camera, and previously released the V1 into the prosumer price slot. They are lobbing one in our direction. It will have half inch chips, undoubtedly good noise characteristics, and latitude combined with the 35mb/s codec should give an number of Digital Cinema camera manufacturers an run for their money. I predicted this, because, at those prices it doesn't really hurt them, but it steals away sales from $20K cameras. In the mid range we have solutions that record low compressed from prosumer cameras, which hurts sales of mid-ranged digital cinema cameras, but still a bulky exercise that make an prosumer camera look attractive. On the other end of the scale there are the low cost 720p pocket cameras. While not an great threat to an $20K, or mid range cameras, it still discourages sales of cheap digital cinema cameras. Just as importantly, these initiatives discourage people from developing cheap digital cinema camera solutions. Sounds very much of, attacking where they are weak, and appearing where you are not expected.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91594

Naivety has ruled the market, and the crunch time is probably coming, but sales may remain adequate at all levels for the remaining companies, with the cheap end probably do the best in numbers. What was needed was price points that would really hurt the established competition, price points they cannot match without collapsing their businesses. 20K is good for threatening $100K+ cameras, but that is only a small portion of the business, assuming you can get an substantial portion. $10K you start really hurting everything above it, and an good portion of the business. $5K you start hurting an lot of the professional/prosumer business. At under $2K-1K you can effectively start collapsing businesses, as the consumer business now comes under substantial threat. The point at which companies might come under threat, due to inertial costs, is when the prosumer comes under threat.

$279 720p Pocket Camcorder with h264,
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=93488

Not the best, consumer, but fairly good consumer for the price, better than the Sanyo HD1. Expect better cameras will come with a quality similar to some HDV cameras.

Me, I await an camera, Elphel, Panasonic H264Intra, JVC? single chip pro sumer, XDCAM HDe, Samsung, we will see. The ride has been interesting, but the bull has not started really bucking yet (and many have already fallen off).

Take has been working on recorder software for his Firewire camera, and is advancing, here is his thread here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89837

HDMI Recorder:
 

In recent discussion this subject came up, and I decided it would be good to post it here and share it.

It can be done for $200, I have been trying to find somebody to make it (anybody interested message me, if you don;'t get an reply an spam filter has conquered it, email dvinfo to let me know). It does not use Intensity, an PC, or cineform though, but wavelet, or H264 intra. I guess cineform or another codec is possible if anybody has an FPGA design, or hard codec.

The market is quiet large if you add camera control, for examples recording directly to hard drive (or computer through USB etc):

Normal camera + POV + security cameras:
HDMI/component/video, sound + fire-wire/USB camera control/serial

Digital Stills:
HDMI/component/video, sound

As an universal Industrial USB/Fire-wire/GigE video recorder:
Camera interface (sound external)

Web-cams:
USB

As an Personal Video/HD video Recorder:
HDMI/component/video + sound +fire-wire for control

As an long line Link, put two together.

On top of this an micro-controller can control an external interface (to hook to external camera controls) and control buttons for an few dollars.

As you can see, the one basic design can have interfaces built around that allow it to service many different markets. Your market now goes to hundreds of thousands an year (considering that use as an long haul link for home theatre might not be much of the market).

hey,hey, 8 Mpixel Altasens
 

Cool, so when will Silicon Imaging have them? I see they have advanced Dynamic Range control, lower light etc, at last somebody listened, and combined advance tech on the same chip. Thanks Juan, let us know when more performance detail is available?

Now for somebody to do an camera based on the new Foveon sensor technology.

High Dynamic Range:
http://www.altasens.com/AltaSensBits...essRelease.pdf

Lower dark current and noise again.

Looks like the 1/2inch sensor is out, and over "HDV" sensors.

http://www.altasens.com/ap7.html

I don't know of any Foveon sensor available with a decent framerate and megapixel count......

As with other companies they do custom designs. They have other designs planned from reports, and have one that will do 720p presently. I wonder if there will be new HD cameras with Altasens or Foveon.

miCard ("Multiple Interface Card" compatible with MMC and USB) data rate 480mb/s.
 

I've read about these ideas before, where an card that fits an normal USB port also has another card interface at the other end. In future I hope they give up on all these different card standards and settle for an general interface like USB2.0/3.0. For me, in embedded design, it makes life an bit easier.

Initial max capacity is 8GB, going to 2TB theoretical max, so enough for an movie (maybe one day).

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article...7/06/02/202206
http://www.computerworld.com/action/...&intsrc=kc_top
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/06/p...first-micards/

I often come across people that that Linux is the be all, and end all of operating systems, and even good for camera HD acquisition. Even though it can be done with proper programing this article I found today is an interesting read.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...070726/136821/

Reading an article on Tron in the 80's, when it came out, was one of the original things that influenced my path in operating system design, putting em on the right path, so to speak. Other things were really talented people in embedded and froth programming.

You may not recognise Tron, but iti is one of the popular real time embedded OS's you will find in DVD players, CD players, washing machines, fridges and microwave ovens, all the sorts of places you don't find quirky desktop crashers that require oodles of resources to do the same thing. From memory, the task scheduling from Tron was also chosen as an replacement in Windows CE by Microsoft.

It would not surprise me if you could find cameras, and webcams, programmed in Tron.

Ooh, the youth and the enthusiasm, there is an new DIY cinema camera project thread. Lots of new interesting hardware links fro different components to make up an recording system:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=96349

If I have missed any other threads please feel free to post them here.

An comparison of next generation display ports:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33161/135/
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33161/135/1/1/

I didn't know that Display Port was based on HDMI, I thought it used an competing technology, it also uses an data packeting format that appears to allow any sort of data to be sent with Audiovisual. Not quiet USB3.0, but theoretically you could have an monitor with up to 20 or so full speed USB2 ports going though display port.

As many people may know, I am retired from project life, answering the odd question, posting the odd update here, and there. So I still welcome your emails, though some take several hours of re-research to answer. If I am of significant help, remember to keep me informed and feel free to send me an free sample of your commercial product ;).

You may notice that Sony has just announced an cheap shoulder mount pro camera, and that I have previously posted, somewhere, about an similar planned shoulder mounted Pana pro-line camera. The competition to DIY/alternative is finally heating up, and I wonder what price the XDCAM HD EX will come in at.

Silicon and Red still struggle to achieve market penetration, finally on the production road, not to mention the other alternatives. People have not yet realised the market that HV20, Sony and Pana cheap shoulder mounts are aiming at, the under $5k market that we could have been in. It is all about customers and what they might decide to buy instead of us, even if they have to lug an big uncompressed recording computer around with them, or if more upmarket, buy the expensive name brand quality camera, instead.

However, the day of the cheap cigarette packet sized cinema camera is definitely an possibility now days.

Speaking separately from the cigarette packet thing, for our amusement:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=732904

Looking 3 chip webcam
 

Does anybody know of these things?

I saw an release of an 3 chip web cam sometime in the last year. I have been spending many hours trying to find it by google, but can't. I forget the resolution, but it could be 1280*960 Sony CCD sensors, it could be VGA. Any three chip web cams for comparison would do.

I first dismissed this, but now think I might be able to get some constructive use from it.

If anybody knows of any good web cam sites, forums, and stores, web cam quality recording software, that might be able to help, please let me know.

FPGA processing alternative?
 

http://www.tilera.com/products/processors.php

As you might know I am fond of these low power high performance processing array solutions, this one programmable in C. Ambarella also has an camera/sensor control chips using this sort of solution, but as yet, they never have confirmed where ever it can be re-programmed (to say Bayer compression) with me. So, keep an eye out for solutions like these.

Then again, I might have posted an link to information about an company making development software, that can take C and adjust it for parallel processors systems, or FPGA.

I've never heard of a 3-chip webcam! I have seen a couple of HD webcams though, and apple's latest iSight is HD.

I'm getting some datasheets and devkit info from foveon in about 10 mins. They gave some very reasonable prices over the phone. (I'll update my sensor chart once I get it).

I can't see the need for a three-chip web cam. Better to stick with single-chip using an RGB filter. It's the same color accuracy, plus a larger sensor for better low-light performance (one large sensor being less expensive than three small ones).

Chris, as you know, it is extremely difficult to get an complete answer around here, unless you ask enough people. So I posted my question in the general discussion board, as well as here, hoping somebody might have heard of it too, as there are many more different people there. But somebody removed it. Is it possible to get it back, I have spent several hours looking already and (read more than seven)?

I am interested in this device, as it would be an cheap way to do my pixel shifted uncompressed HD solution, like Andromeda, until the single chip three color solution I have been waiting for arrives. I am interested in what Solomon has quoted, but they are very reluctant to deal with small outfits, let alone charge an price less than thousands, let alone less than the hundreds.

Thanks.

After all this time Wayne you should know that we don't allow cross-posting to more than one forum. Thus the removal. Where do you want this, and I'll move it.

It does/did exist, and as you can see from my last post, I have an devious little DIY experimental use for it. Always interested in the cheaper solutions, it would be good for at least prototyping an pixel-shifted recording solution, which has some of it's own advantages over single chip. But tell me, roughly what prices were Foveon quoting, for what type of equipment. Unless the chips can be had for hundreds or less, or cameras for less than an thousand, it might be too expensive for my use.

Still expensive, but of course foveon is up there with altasens in terms of quality. Low hundreds for large quanties, around $850 for 5 sensors, $1000 for single. I just updated my chart.

But it wasn't the same post, I changed it :) . Is it possible to reinstall it there and I put an link to it here with the same title?

Any chance it might be possible to have an remote linking scheme, like the moved post scheme, for awkward question posts that suit more than one sub-forum?

If we move a post, we usually leave behind a three-day re-directing link.

With cross-posts, we just remove all but the earliest version.

If the topic is of interest, people *will* find it. Hope this helps,

Wayne, good cmos image sensor is better than 3ccd or 3cmos.
http://www.cineform.com/technology/C...ensor_600H.gif

Read tests by Wolfgang Winne, check samples from 3CCD camcorders and one-sensor HV20
http://fxsupport.de/25.html

Serge, don't worry about it. This is an lead up to something much better for the price. The three chipper is just an easy entry test case for now.

Thanks Chris. I'm sure there is probably 70% less chance of the right person coming along here, then in general, and 50% overall (maybe more likely such an person would respond here though).

Summary of thread
 

Anyone want to help me :- I'm compiling a list of cameras divided into sensor size i.e. 1/2" to 2/3", 2/3" to 1", 1" and higher. Protocol - GigE/IIDC/CameraLink. Resolution Full HDTV 1920X1080, or higher. Frame rate 30fps or higher (some of us need quality slom motion as well)
So far we have the Imperx, Altasens, Pulnix (others based on the Kodak Kai sensor). If we have a list with model numbers, I can make a table with prices etc.

Hello everyone,

Has everyone thought of using a high speed CMOS and run at continues at high speeds, I found a CMOS chip from micron which can handle 2352 x 1728 @ 200 fps (10 bit) with a global shutter. with a lower vertical resolution you get a higher framerate.

If you would always run the sensor at a high speed, say 8 times 24 fps. You can use these extra frames for either slow motion, or increasing bit depth by adding the frames together. 8 times would add 3 bits of dynamic range (the SNR also increases, but not by 3 bits).

If you really want to do freaky stuff, one could maybe do a more complicated set of exposures to get HDR.

Sumix SMX-12A2C
 

Sumix Altasens GigaE camera is being released. Price is not set yet. I would like your suggestion for price that can be justified for DIY users.

Farhad

This old version of Altasens? Not 2K as used in SI2K ?

Correct. In a few months sensor will be changed to the new version P4562-3T.