Here is a link to a program reporting on a new artificial photsynthesis by using dye. Works in "lowlight" etc.

Now this may appear bot to have anything to do with cameras, but all sensors collect light and converts to electrical charge. So anything that ups the conversion rate of light to power, improves the sensors efficiency.

As I have discussed with Ronald before, there are a number of new technologies reporting potentials of over 60% efficency. It might be interesting to note that silicon solar pannels have around 20% efficency (it starts under, and I don't knoiw how high it now reaches, but probably no more than around 27%). Now if you go to a cmos sensor, how much are we getting between 10 to 20% efficency??. So a jump to 30-60% (realistically somthing might get above 70-90% one day) might do wonders.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1241478.htm

It sounds familiar, but I believe there are some technologies that could get closer to 100% (not actually 100% because of inefficencies).

Here is an interesting page with lots of links on microsdisplay, wearable computers, programmable silicon and processors etc:

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache...&hl=en&start=5

Fun Fun Fun for those itnerested in embedded stuff and electronics. Have alook at these:

http://www.devrs.com/e/
http://www.devrs.com/e/docs.php#docsmags
http://www.devrs.com/pic/
http://www.freertos.org/PC/

Wayne.

Dear Wayne
I"ve been for years in the wearable group of
Steve Man lot of fun ...

Would you believe it, attachable lens for Mobile phones (even a zoom ;):

http://www.amacrox.com/04english/p-camera.htm


And free Windows XP like Linux:

http://www.freedows.com/index.php?Lang=en


Low noise ATX poxer supply (22db):

http://www.amacrox.com/04english/p-fanless.htm

On that 12V power supply
 

Actually, looking at the back of that power supply it looks very simular to mine, probably a latter developement and a bit quieter (it also states 22db, full load, so it must adjust itself too).

A word of warning with these low niose power supply, I regard anything above 17db as too niosy for close proximity work.

Also note that there was some extremely small silent embedded power supplies for ITX boards I mentioned previously. I don't remember but I think there was ATX versions. Good if you don't require big power draws.

Dear Wayne
I do have the catalog of a Frenc dealer www.edox.com
they do have a pc atx 350 W without any fan ...0 db

Having trouble finding that, do you have link to the product?

Thanks

Wayne.

Did anybody have a look at embeded SBC?
A sample here:
http://www.lannerinc.com/products/ac_em_sbc.asp

New Sumix cameras.
 

Nothing extra special, some new micron models, no Altasens yet.

http://optics.sumix.com/products/cameras/index.htmll

Wayne.

I emailed Sumix and they say their new Altasens based camera will be out next March

That is not very good, they were supposed to be out by December, so the Altasens manufacture delay should allowed them to have a design fully complete by the time the sensor became available. I can only summise that perhaps the altasens is further delayed :( . From a marketing point of view this does not bode very well for the projects here, are we going to have to wait for the Sony HDV cameras to go on discount before we get an Altasens. A few months delay in the release date for a silicon product because of manufacturing delays should not be counted as anything especially unusual, but this delay is much longer, and makes me wonder what's up.

Ronald, what do you think, you should have more upto date knowledge of general chip production problems?

Well a guest you can read any posting in here, can you? With a real name you can too.

I do know that Intel for example is watching microcontroler and other forums on a day by day basis. So I do guess, that Altasens will deliver the ProCam market and does not talk about as this is common with CPU. If I comes true that we can do for 5k or 10k a flexible camera design with 1080i recording to dead cheap Sata array as disks , think of laptops from the shelf, used on fishing trawlers,a in Sport avionic, in artik reserch and so on, on the foolish sail race Vendee globe to name a fe. Tape is dead, to much mechanics ,a tape drive is vulnerable. Writing on any DVD the laser head is vulnerable, only a disk is sealed but they dont like it, as Cinema people stick to tape, only to take it out and pop it into a tapedrive elsewhere.

It is all politics, habits, tics,
have fun

Dear wayne and all the others:
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4887107636.html

that is only on of the board but is has RAID SATA, GIGE Ethernet, LOW power Fanless usb 2, Firewire, Graphics typical VIA stuff, they do have a dual fanless MOBO too and Linux ready and preloded

NO Noise CPU cooler, eg heatpipe

No noise CPU cooler
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-nt01.htm

no noise power supply
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-12a.htm

once found a powersupply no fan that
can be connectected to 24V DC

Ronald, my applogies, I think you misunderstood my meaning. I was just asking general opinion on what long delays in chip manufacturing stage mean, nothing specific. In old days (20 years ago) delays were often enough, but 6 month plus delays were distraterouse, but that knowledge is out of date now.

Wayne.

this is with GIGE Ethernet low, low power and fast the Dual CPU board just scroll down on the page a bit

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7787520286.html

Sudden Revelation
 

David, I would like to pass this by you and other compression experts). I have just had a sudden revelation, maybe we are going about the compression the wrong way around. The following is given on the assumption of masses of future computing power. Though I am unsure that present machines can do it. For a next gen device I would suggest the IBM/SONY CELL processor (with power CPU core for Mac people) with staggering power and for consumer electronics (16 Teraflops per rack). With Linux programming it should be relatively easy.

Compression:

- Can be built for different ussages

- for transmission the routine has to provide complete frames every now and then for drop out, and extra data to rebuild data incase of corruption.

- For tape you have simular overhead.

- But because the data has to be compressed one frame at a time this reduces the overall compression rate, as you can not compress to many frames at once.

- With file compession greater lossless compression rates are possible because the whole file is compressed at once.

We don't need to use standards for single frame transmission and tape recording.

As we are going to be using mainboards that can take 8 gigabytes of memory in future, that is a lot more like a file than 6 frames worth of data. So we can get around some comrpession bottle necks and achieve greater comrpession. Somewhere I posted a link to the leading file compression routine, from what I remember we could well and truely break the 2:1 lossless compression ratio. I also would advocate the filtering of unwanted niose to increase compression (even thought this is not regarded as lossless).


So what do you think, within the range of possibility?

It is basically what CineForm does already, although we apply it to lossy compression (yes it's extendable to lossless -- one day.) It is why CineForm achieves 10bit compression at the same bit-rate as Avid's DNxHD 8bit mode. But the techniques of exploiting temporal redundancy has been known forever. The trick is to develop this style of compression suitable for post-production. You may have already seen our quality analysis at http://www.cineform.com/technology/quality.htm, showing how two codecs around 100Mb/s can differ so greatly in quality. Wavelets aren't our only edge.

David

Yes I know. I haven't got around to analysing the page.

With my idea, you basically take in a chunk, apply compression, when you come to edit it, you convert/uncompress it to the desired format, and edit and do finale version of film. In work flow terms it is simple. The compression is for storage fo the huge amount of data that maybe usuable in future, and to cut down on the amount of drives needed in recording (and the data rate). You could use it for finale version to, but with 5:1-30:1 shooting ratios that may not be needed.

So if you are taking advantage of file compression is there any chance you will ever go to lossless soon (less the unwanted niose).

Do you think it is a viable interim recording solution, or is processing power way in excess of 3Ghz?

Wayne.

Wow Guys,

Summix now claiming a cine-worthy camera now in March? This is what I was worried about guys. See, the fact remains that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. So far, we've heard about cine-worthy cameras "coming soon" from Summix and SI and what not. Every once in a while someone gives vague hints of something their planning to have out as a sellable product soon, at best there are like 3 or 4 guys on dvinfo who actually have a working semi-working prototype of a home-built camera or an HD mod or whatever . . . okay . . . .

The point . . .

I think we might prepare ourselves for the posibility that these things won't really get off the ground until it's far past too late (i.e., by the tiime real, cheap, efficient home-grown cameras are a pratical reality, Sony and Panasonic and them will have a far more reliable cameras on or near the market that when all was said and done, won't be much more expensive for what you get.) I mean, we all know it's not as good to have 1080i at 25Mbps at 4:2:0, as it is 1080p at 200 Mbps and 4:4:4. But when you start to figure it can't be more than a year before someone announces a 3 chip true 16:9 camcorder at 1080 lines / 4:2:0 / and 25Mbps . . . with progressive frames and cine-gama and very possibly pre-compression RGB out . . . well, we all know it's coming.

Meanwhile, 1 month before it's announced, we finally get our home-grown thing going for say 5 k minimum when talking storage and power and laptops and yada yada, and here comes this camera now for just under 10k that's 10 times as user friendly and portable . . . and with each passing month HD projection in movie theaters is more popular and more higher quality methods of video to film transfers are becoming available . . . .

Hate to be the pessimist, guys, but we might brace ourselves for the reality in March when Summix/SI says it's coming in June, then September again, and then maybe if we're lucky, we'll get what we want in December or so . . . if the companies will still put them out after they know how many people are going to get the camcorders to come.

Just say'n I had a (now validated) feeling last year at this time we'd still be looking . . . and I now I've got a feeling about next year.

Let's hope not.

Summix?

SI?

Bueler? . . . Bueler?

Replies?

Man, I can never remember . . .

Is it better to have "global" or "rolling" shutter for film-like cinematography?

I don't think the big guys are ever going to give us a raw capture to hardrive. a friend of mine at avid was told directly by sony that
there mission between camera and software was to preserve the tape . not for the sake of a better product . but for the profit in making and selling tapes. fox news waited years to go hi def because the big guys were just so greedy. when nikon makes a 35mm camera the optics and machined precision require great skill. all of us can build a computer equal or better then a dell
this is now happing to the big camera guys. we can buy the same cmos they buy but like the computer we don't have to take the packaged features that they hand us.if they want to try and sell a camera for $75,000 that has a$2,000 1280 x720 camera as its base they just open thereselves up for competion from sumix and the like. the hottest selling audio product was not made by the audio giants It was made by a computer company. the ipod

Unlike most people here, I had a grasp on time frames, so thought that 3 months instead of one year was quick to get this camera, and it should have been possible but then everybody turned to Altasens. Now they have turned to FPGA, which is even more delays (to program it might take them six months, I know it can be done in one, but few people are that fast in programming them from scratch). The 3 chip is probably not too much delay. So things have changed and mounted up. The ussual. The camera could also be slotted in between other jobs.

At the moment there are working camera, just not cine grade software, and this is the release date for drake, who have been reworking their prototypes to make it work better for commercialisation. This life is not so good sometimes, I have seen it so many times in the last 20 years it is not funny, all prople can do in front up to help speed it along (extra money would help) or wait.

Laurence: global shutter is better for cinematic work.

Tech update:
 

Hello, people have talked about these things before here is the Windows XP PDA, toshiba also announced 80 GB 1.8inch drives:

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20041214/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...14_120939.html

9 new Notebook drives listed, finally 720p performance:

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/2...ook_hd-14.html

Here's what I don't get . . .

If it takes 1 month to program the software for the 3 chip cmos, why isn't this thing done? We could all be using that until the altesens is out. There's always going to be a new chip coming out, guys. If you're always waiting for the bigger better technology, you'll never make a camera. Make one NOW, use it, and when the next comes out, make that then. 1920 X 1080 3 chips uncompressed is as good as one will need to make real feature films, trust me.

P.S.

I'd program the thing myself if I knew how to . . . but I don't.

Laurance: the problem is obviously time. This takes a huge amount
of research, trial and error, optimizing, programming and testing.

Obin's programmer seems to be the one still moving forward at
this moment (Rai & Markus' camera is finished already!) and
Rob Scott and myself are currently just without time.

That is the whole problem. It is not as easy as slapping a few
parts together, especially not if you want 10 or 12 bit recording.

I for one do this in my sparetime and over the last 3 months this
has just been almost completely absent. Sorry.

I missed the bit about one month to do the three chip software, where is it?

Laurence, we have been using two micro cameras and a IBIS camera for a while but it is the cinema quality capture software we are waiting for.

I am very frustrated too, after waiting for JVC HD10 replacement, new HDV cameras, and now for these cameras, but I have no real option at the moment. If i want HD raw, I have to wait.

That seems to be the problem.

Users are users and developers, although being users too, are a different breed...
Normal end users don't have a clear idea about how much time and frustrations are required to be able to get to a product a non technical user can operate...
I, myself as a stupid developer in ANSI C, have made lots of video software which is good for the things I made it, but which cannot be used by anyother guy because of the lack of user friendly features.When it is not working for me I just open it, tweak a couple of things, compile and keep going.A normal user cannot do that and tht's why it takes months to be able to give people what the want.

Just my 2 cents..

high def clips
 

this is a link from a member .
It has some hd clips from that camera.

the street price is around $3,700


http://www.subgunvideos.com/videos/R...rike%20Videos/

Laurence,
I understand your frustration. There are two levels here - one is the basic camera and the other is a fully functional system solution for movie making. We've been selling IBIS-5 cameras for two years, 720p Microns for over a year and 1080 24fps Microns for over half a year. Obin has (two now) SI-3300 cameras and he is getting results on the system solution. If you want an Altasens, place an order now - the next production run is due in early January.

Yes, we are at the mercy of the sensor vendors but there is a development cycle to deal with. Frequently we have our design done, PCBs layed out and fabricated, just waiting for sensors. Sometimes the sensors are cancelled, sometimes delayed due to problems requiring another 8 week fab cycle and sometimes the specs change requiring board relayout before we can start testing.

The bigger problem is the length of time from when a camera is available to when a system solution can be done. This may change when people like Obin have their first product out and just integrate in a new camera front end but the first time through takes a long time as all the decisions are new and require research before implementing. That is why I see working with people doing integration as an investment.

If you need something now, buy an SI-3300-RGB-GR and Streampix and you can be recording 1920x1080, 10 bits, 24fps raw data.....tomorrow. Not elegant but it works.

Tech update:
 

What a day, after findout about the Sony's HD output, I haved just found a Link to programming the JVC HD/PD series from a link over at camcorder info.

http://translate.google.com/translat...lr%3D%26sa%3DG

Very unclear (in multiple langauages) but it talks about programming it in the Toas language, the hidden programming port near the firewire, programming and flash, 24fps, and HD.

Starting a seperate thread about it.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=36574

Wayne,

Do you know for sure that the component out is uncompressed?

That is what the people are claiming, but at the same time, I see how they could be mistaken. Just because seperate datapaths goes from Black chip A (?) to compressor and component, doesn't mean the two aren't linked. I assume they know to examine if the datapath is one way data. If the datapath is bi-directional, then the data canbe sent to the compressor, sent back again then to the component (and the rest is probably a bit of hype). You get my meaning, as I don't have an FX1 (and probably won't at the local price, even if it is uncomrpessed) I can't trest myself. The blackchip might be a hub, all data flows into, and out of, a central organising chip, so is passed back and foward toi get to individual chips. Probably the best test is to throw a computer generated random niose picture into the camera that should completely stuff the comrpessor circuit, and then compare the output to the original digitally (still a bit tricky to setup right).

Wayne.

Sub $500 laptop, thinking.
 

I just read a Tomshardware news artical that claims that sub $500 notebooks are now common on compusa (I think that was the site) and listed a Linux Laptop for less than $500 but only !GHZ at the moment (they also have a second part DVexpo report). This gets me thinking, if laptops are going to be under $500 in future with fast enough processor and Gigae, that is a very viable alternative to bying an ITX MB, especially if you consider that it may coem with 720p compatable LCD. Even if you wanted to put everything in a case, all that entails is breaking down the laptop and refiting it is a more suitable style case.

Hi Guys, I just wanted to say first off that I am new to this site but have been reading for the past week or so on what you are doing with the "home made hd cameras" and i am completely facsinated. I have been reading as much as i can as there is a tone of posts to catch up on so i'm not sure if you have addressed this particular camera/sensor....but how viable would it be to use this Dalsa Pantera SA 2M30? It says that it outputs 1080p @ up to 30fps. I can't however find anything about the price. Does anyone know if this a good option for the sensor/camera protion and have an idea what it costs?

http://vfm.dalsa.com/products/features/2m30.asp

keep up the good work,

Omar

Welcome aboard DVInfo.net Omar!

I don't know the price either, but if it isn't listed it usually is in a
pricerange that "normal" people cannot afford....

Last time I got a quotation from Dalsa for a 2K model it was around 6,000 bucks or the like....
Not so bad for a good quality CCD.

Thanks Rob, I glad to finally contribute a post!

Juan thanks for the info....that's a bit pricey, but based on the info on their site and what little I know about CCD's it seems like it would output one hell of a nice image. I wonder if it is similar to the CCD they use in their digital cinema camera?

I have tried to contact them about pricing, and got some ... locally distributor that wants to know the information allready included in the email he is replying to (why me). I have noted that their 6MP model should get close to 24fps in a panavision style window of interest. But if they are going to be much more than the 2MP model, it is a bit piontless.

I have been thinking, if we wanted a large performance camera (for documentary or cheap cinema production) then we could use 3 chip pixel shifted SD progressive camera head. With the larger cell size we should have tremendouse latitude, SN, and maxinum satuation values. But I have no idea who the leaders in performance, or value, are in the SD market, let alone the cmos sensor side of it.

Does anybody know of any cheap 3 chip prisms, or how to put a chip prism together cheap.


Wayne.

Well, what you say is right .The problem of all this is the word "cheap".
There is no "cheap" way to do what you are asking, because you need expensive machinery, trained professionals and a special facility to be able to play with chips and prisms.
And in the end that three chips with prism will be far more expensive than a single sensor of higher resolution.

But allways humbly, much better. OK if there is none, there is none. I would have thought they would have been pretty standardised and fitable like normal prisms, not having to be custom made for each sensor.

Thanks.

You misunderstood what I said.
The prisms are stanadard.The difficult part is mounting the chips on them with enough precision and a really clean environment.
Then you have the added cost of three times the electronics required for a single sensor.....
So at the end all this together gets higher cost than just a bigger resolution chip.
I hope it is clearer now.