First test footage: HD with GG orbiter at DVinfo.net

Les Dit · August 8th, 2004, 12:22 AM

Here are two different compressions of the same footage, my GG orbiter device imaged at 720P on my JVC .
One is media9 at 7.5 megabits/sec , the other is Mpeg2 at about 10 megabits.

The lens is a 50mm junk Minolta lens.
Caveats:
There is a bit of vibration movement, it's because the rig is being held up by a very flimsy wood and hot glue setup. Not that optimal. The camera is just sitting on a piece of wood, not bolted down.
On frame left, you will see the edge of the GG frame pulsing, the framing is a bit off. Also,you can see me 'hunt' for focus a bit , I didn't have marks or stops on the lens.

Note: I included a slight pan, and used sufficient bit rate to show any possible grain artifacts. Posting stills of these tests is pretty much a waste of time, the problems only show in motion, as with the pan.
The device is pictured in the 'mini35 ideas' thread, it uses 3 shafts with 9 ball bearings and a small motor. Circle of orbit is about 1.5mm radius. Image target on GG is about 30mm across. No corrective optics used to fix hot spot. Shutter speed is 1/30.

http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/Osc-t...-OscTest1a.wmv

---- these videos are about 24 megabytes , FYI ----
and the mpeg2 :
http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/Osc-t...C-GG-test1.mpg

Are there other links to tests with GG at high bit rate with pan so we can see what's happening? I'd love to see some!

-Les

Alexandre Bartholo · August 8th, 2004, 07:37 AM

realy impressive !
de Dof effect is very great.
i wish i could do the same with my cam.
just finish a short, and i would have love that kind of effect.
by the way, i was wondering what would be the result without the gg ? i mean with just the 50mm lens ?
could post a still or a small footage to show the difference ?

Les Dit · August 8th, 2004, 11:41 AM

Yes, the DOF effect is perhaps too great in that test, but I wanted to show the effect. Perhaps I can shoot the same setup with just the normal lens, but I already know what it will look like. There would only be a slight defocus of the objects, since the DOF is pretty deep with the normal lens, even with wide open aperture.
-Les

Les Dit · August 10th, 2004, 10:47 PM

OK, I am almost up to my 5 gig / mo bandwidth limit on that account, so I pulled the videos for now. If someone wants to see it for more than just curiosity reasons, drop me a message at
hd-events at earthlink dot net and I'll send a link.

Isn't it funny that about 150 people looked at the video, and only one comment! I know I'm late to the GG DOF project frenzy, did the interest really just drop off like that?

Never did see another post with video showing one of these things actually *WORKING* either. With a bit rate and slow pan designed to show possible problems and not hide them under the compression or sly camera work. I guess people just gave up or something.

I did it as a fun project, I really don't think that a film needs DOF control like that to carry a great story and show dramatic content. IMO.

-Les

Daniel Moloko · August 11th, 2004, 08:22 AM

ive sent you an email, got no reply yet for this...

i think the setup can be useful for this camera in special, cause we have more controls over the lack of manual control.

i think the adaptor will allow me to use a lot of good lenses i have already.

anyway, it is hard to focus a subject by eye sometimes. so a lens with marks can provide a good workflow.

Les, can you post a JPEG of yours setup? and tell me where you bought this GG?

im really curious about it.!

thanks a lot

ciao

Les Dit · August 11th, 2004, 10:23 AM

Hi Daniel,
Yes, I did get your email. Thanks!

I will not post pics of the current setup, as it is made of square wood pieces, and looks very ugly. Not made for production use by any means!
The core component is Aluminum, and is about 3.5 inch diameter and 2 inch thick.
The GG is nothing special, you don't have to have special GG because it is moving and hides blemishes. So no 5 micron grit made from moon dust needed ;)

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ive sent you an email, got no reply yet for this...

i think the setup can be useful for this camera in special, cause we have more controls over the lack of manual control.

i think the adaptor will allow me to use a lot of good lenses i have already.

anyway, it is hard to focus a subject by eye sometimes. so a lens with marks can provide a good workflow.

Les, can you post a JPEG of yours setup? and tell me where you bought this GG?

im really curious about it.!

thanks a lot

ciao -->>>

Frank Ladner · August 11th, 2004, 10:45 AM

Moon dust! Why didn't you mention this before, Les?!
:-) j/k

Les, sorry about the lack of responses. I would like to encourage you to continue on with this project, as I have learned a lot from guys like you. Thanks a lot!

Obin Olson · August 11th, 2004, 01:59 PM

Les..I have a DOF adaptor in use on EVERY project that needs to look good...it's the best...I total am in love with it!! I will post you a 30sec spot when I get editing done so you can see the results!

Richard Mellor · August 11th, 2004, 02:15 PM

hi everyone I just recived a piece of 5x9 ground glass from ebay seller .It looks real good. he has quite a few pieces. my winning bid was about ten dollars. this would work fine for a orbiter

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...724092&rd=1

Les Dit · August 11th, 2004, 09:31 PM

Obin, it definitely helps video look way more like film!
For outside use, do you find that the LCD is enough for you to find focus? I'm actually able to focus pretty well with it, on the HD10. It has a 'sharpened' mode that makes it alias and twinkle when the focus is right on.
A bit clunky for run and gun shooting.
Lets get more posts of good examples, it's exciting to see and motivates the experimenters like me!

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Les..I have a DOF adaptor in use on EVERY project that needs to look good...it's the best...I total am in love with it!! I will post you a 30sec spot when I get editing done so you can see the results! -->>>

Brett Erskine · August 12th, 2004, 12:36 AM

Les-

Send me off a link to your video so I can check it out. From what it sounds like you have a nice working adapter there. I dont know if your interested in doing any more work on it but heres some things that I've done to improve my adapter.

1)Medium format GG with optimized grain for both brightness and contrast. This larger/improved gg allows for the following:

A)Much Brighter images (due to the qualities of the GG and the ability to not have to zoom on the video camera's lens and loose more stops). Unlike even the professional Mini35, this design allows the adapter to be used in even low light situations.

B)Higher contrast/definition video

C)No need for a close up lens.

D)The ability to use more than 35mm lenses. You can use medium format, swing/tilt lenses, etc.

I also added a few other things such as variable speed control, micro bearings, ultra silent motor, running light and even a battery dock so I can use the same battery as the one that runs my video camera.

So dont worry your not alone. There are other people out there making adapters still. Anyways send me a link to your adapter. I dont mind if its made out of plywood.

Brett Erskine
Director of Photography
www.CinematographerReels.com
BErskine@mail.com

P.S. Are you using a close up lens to get that 30mm target area?

Daniel Moloko · August 12th, 2004, 12:56 AM

Brett,

are you using What medium format GG? where did you bought it?
do you have the HD10u too?

lens, can you explain how you did the ORBITER part? u mean you make the gg move? how?

ciao

i really need to know exactly how to do it, i need to setup one of these !

Brett Erskine · August 12th, 2004, 01:14 AM

I made it move the same way as a P+S Technik does theirs. I just used 4 mounting points instead of three because my GG is square and I wanted to make my adapter extremely small so the whole thing was totally portable. There was a post about a month ago that had a link to a page that showed pictures of the interior parts of the Mini35. Could someone please post it for Dan? Good luck.

Brett Erskine · August 12th, 2004, 01:16 AM

The GG was custom made by small manufacture that specialises in calibrated focusing screens for cameras.

Daniel Moloko · August 12th, 2004, 01:22 AM

brett,

is it possible for you to send me one of these GG? how much it was?

please, help a brazilian filmmaker ! im just a third world man trying to get ready for the war...hehe

ciao

what`s your email adress?

August 8th, 2004, 12:22 AM	#1
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	First test footage: HD with GG orbiter Here are two different compressions of the same footage, my GG orbiter device imaged at 720P on my JVC . One is media9 at 7.5 megabits/sec , the other is Mpeg2 at about 10 megabits. The lens is a 50mm junk Minolta lens. Caveats: There is a bit of vibration movement, it's because the rig is being held up by a very flimsy wood and hot glue setup. Not that optimal. The camera is just sitting on a piece of wood, not bolted down. On frame left, you will see the edge of the GG frame pulsing, the framing is a bit off. Also,you can see me 'hunt' for focus a bit , I didn't have marks or stops on the lens. Note: I included a slight pan, and used sufficient bit rate to show any possible grain artifacts. Posting stills of these tests is pretty much a waste of time, the problems only show in motion, as with the pan. The device is pictured in the 'mini35 ideas' thread, it uses 3 shafts with 9 ball bearings and a small motor. Circle of orbit is about 1.5mm radius. Image target on GG is about 30mm across. No corrective optics used to fix hot spot. Shutter speed is 1/30. http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/Osc-t...-OscTest1a.wmv ---- these videos are about 24 megabytes , FYI ---- and the mpeg2 : http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/Osc-t...C-GG-test1.mpg Are there other links to tests with GG at high bit rate with pan so we can see what's happening? I'd love to see some! -Les

August 8th, 2004, 07:37 AM	#2
Alexandre Bartholo New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Paris Posts: 13	woot realy impressive ! de Dof effect is very great. i wish i could do the same with my cam. just finish a short, and i would have love that kind of effect. by the way, i was wondering what would be the result without the gg ? i mean with just the 50mm lens ? could post a still or a small footage to show the difference ?

August 11th, 2004, 08:22 AM	#5
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	les dit... ive sent you an email, got no reply yet for this... i think the setup can be useful for this camera in special, cause we have more controls over the lack of manual control. i think the adaptor will allow me to use a lot of good lenses i have already. anyway, it is hard to focus a subject by eye sometimes. so a lens with marks can provide a good workflow. Les, can you post a JPEG of yours setup? and tell me where you bought this GG? im really curious about it.! thanks a lot ciao

August 11th, 2004, 10:23 AM	#6
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Re: les dit... Hi Daniel, Yes, I did get your email. Thanks! I will not post pics of the current setup, as it is made of square wood pieces, and looks very ugly. Not made for production use by any means! The core component is Aluminum, and is about 3.5 inch diameter and 2 inch thick. The GG is nothing special, you don't have to have special GG because it is moving and hides blemishes. So no 5 micron grit made from moon dust needed ;) -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ive sent you an email, got no reply yet for this... i think the setup can be useful for this camera in special, cause we have more controls over the lack of manual control. i think the adaptor will allow me to use a lot of good lenses i have already. anyway, it is hard to focus a subject by eye sometimes. so a lens with marks can provide a good workflow. Les, can you post a JPEG of yours setup? and tell me where you bought this GG? im really curious about it.! thanks a lot ciao -->>>

August 11th, 2004, 02:15 PM	#9
Richard Mellor Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: cambridge ma Posts: 247	ground glasss hi everyone I just recived a piece of 5x9 ground glass from ebay seller .It looks real good. he has quite a few pieces. my winning bid was about ten dollars. this would work fine for a orbiter http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...724092&rd=1

August 8th, 2004, 11:41 AM	#3
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Yes, the DOF effect is perhaps too great in that test, but I wanted to show the effect. Perhaps I can shoot the same setup with just the normal lens, but I already know what it will look like. There would only be a slight defocus of the objects, since the DOF is pretty deep with the normal lens, even with wide open aperture. -Les

August 10th, 2004, 10:47 PM	#4
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	OK, I am almost up to my 5 gig / mo bandwidth limit on that account, so I pulled the videos for now. If someone wants to see it for more than just curiosity reasons, drop me a message at hd-events at earthlink dot net and I'll send a link. Isn't it funny that about 150 people looked at the video, and only one comment! I know I'm late to the GG DOF project frenzy, did the interest really just drop off like that? Never did see another post with video showing one of these things actually WORKING either. With a bit rate and slow pan designed to show possible problems and not hide them under the compression or sly camera work. I guess people just gave up or something. I did it as a fun project, I really don't think that a film needs DOF control like that to carry a great story and show dramatic content. IMO. -Les

August 11th, 2004, 10:45 AM	#7
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Moon dust! Why didn't you mention this before, Les?! :-) j/k Les, sorry about the lack of responses. I would like to encourage you to continue on with this project, as I have learned a lot from guys like you. Thanks a lot!

August 11th, 2004, 01:59 PM	#8
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Les..I have a DOF adaptor in use on EVERY project that needs to look good...it's the best...I total am in love with it!! I will post you a 30sec spot when I get editing done so you can see the results!

August 11th, 2004, 09:31 PM	#10
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Obin, it definitely helps video look way more like film! For outside use, do you find that the LCD is enough for you to find focus? I'm actually able to focus pretty well with it, on the HD10. It has a 'sharpened' mode that makes it alias and twinkle when the focus is right on. A bit clunky for run and gun shooting. Lets get more posts of good examples, it's exciting to see and motivates the experimenters like me! -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : Les..I have a DOF adaptor in use on EVERY project that needs to look good...it's the best...I total am in love with it!! I will post you a 30sec spot when I get editing done so you can see the results! -->>>

August 12th, 2004, 12:36 AM	#11
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	Les- Send me off a link to your video so I can check it out. From what it sounds like you have a nice working adapter there. I dont know if your interested in doing any more work on it but heres some things that I've done to improve my adapter. 1)Medium format GG with optimized grain for both brightness and contrast. This larger/improved gg allows for the following: A)Much Brighter images (due to the qualities of the GG and the ability to not have to zoom on the video camera's lens and loose more stops). Unlike even the professional Mini35, this design allows the adapter to be used in even low light situations. B)Higher contrast/definition video C)No need for a close up lens. D)The ability to use more than 35mm lenses. You can use medium format, swing/tilt lenses, etc. I also added a few other things such as variable speed control, micro bearings, ultra silent motor, running light and even a battery dock so I can use the same battery as the one that runs my video camera. So dont worry your not alone. There are other people out there making adapters still. Anyways send me a link to your adapter. I dont mind if its made out of plywood. Brett Erskine Director of Photography www.CinematographerReels.com BErskine@mail.com P.S. Are you using a close up lens to get that 30mm target area?

August 12th, 2004, 12:56 AM	#12
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	Brett, are you using What medium format GG? where did you bought it? do you have the HD10u too? lens, can you explain how you did the ORBITER part? u mean you make the gg move? how? ciao i really need to know exactly how to do it, i need to setup one of these !

August 12th, 2004, 01:14 AM	#13
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	I made it move the same way as a P+S Technik does theirs. I just used 4 mounting points instead of three because my GG is square and I wanted to make my adapter extremely small so the whole thing was totally portable. There was a post about a month ago that had a link to a page that showed pictures of the interior parts of the Mini35. Could someone please post it for Dan? Good luck.

August 12th, 2004, 01:16 AM	#14
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	The GG was custom made by small manufacture that specialises in calibrated focusing screens for cameras.

August 12th, 2004, 01:22 AM	#15
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	brett, is it possible for you to send me one of these GG? how much it was? please, help a brazilian filmmaker ! im just a third world man trying to get ready for the war...hehe ciao what`s your email adress?