GG Alternative

[Craig Bellaire]

OK here are my thoughts.... Although we have just received our Mini 35 today and 2 xl2's I am still intrigued by an alternative, “OK for home use and less then $10,000.00”... Yes we made a static Mini35 device for our PDX10. Yes it looks great except for the GG. SO, here it is… How about trying a piece of Black and White film lightly fogged… Which when processed properly should be similar to white GG… also since film is basically HD quality just maybe the grain will be much less and a possible static adapter is possible… Then sandwich this between two pieces of glass and there you have it. .I haven’t tried this due to our photographer not helping, so I’ll have to out source this to a local lab but still the thought hasn’t left me… OK What do you think…?

[John Nagle]

That sounds like a really interesting idea, perhaps a piece of medium format film would give a larger area to image on?

[Aaron Shaw]

It would give a larger area to image on but without a MF lens this area would go unused.

[John Nagle]

Aaron,
Good point, thank you for that I probably should think more before posting.

Craig,
How do you suggest fogging the film?

[Craig Bellaire]

OK it's been a while since I worked with B&W film but if you expose the film to light or flash the film, then it's a white color or fogged in color... NOW I could be wrong, Again it’s been a few years… But if I was going to do this “which I will” then I would rather just have a local photo developer do this. “NOT a 1 hour place but a real photo lab which all the local wedding photographers use” Of course I would talk with the developer myself and explain what I wanted and then he could just give me a bracket exposure of the film… Meaning at various exposures or flashes. Which in turn would give me a light fogged to a dark fogged film? Again if this is done in the opposite fashion then the film will be clearer with a black tint or a purple tint. Again it’s been 15 years since I worked with B&W film… NEXT

[Aaron Shaw]

Oh, hey no worries John. I do the same sort of thing all the time!

[Filip Kovcin]

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Bellaire : OK here are my thoughts.... How about trying a piece of Black and White film lightly fogged… What do you think…? -->>>

craig,

he, he... i had a similar if not the same idea some time ago. glad that someone is thinking in the identical way - very cool.
take a look on this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=27274

all the best,

filip

[Stefan Scherperel]

As a photography major, maybe I can give a little input here. First the black and white film thing. This is an excelent idea, but I think you will have a hard time exposing the film so that it is not tinted in any way. I have noticed that Kodak T-max film comes out pretty neutral, however, even when it is clear it is almost like looking through sunglasses, so you would probably lose a few stops by using that. The other thing that I was thinking of would be to use slide film (E6). Now, if completely overexpose a piece of slide film it is completely transparent. Therefore it would have a complete absence of grain and no surface to project an image. However, you may experiment with shooting different surfaces, maybe even a grey card at different exposures and see what you get. I would recomend using medium format film for this as it was reccomended before. The reason for this is that even though you would be using 35mm lenses, the circle projected would be slightly larger than an actual 35mm film chip. You would therfore have a little bit more working area, and in the long run have a lot more handling area than 35mm film.
I would also reccomend using a very fine grained film like Fuji Velvia 50 because this will be a non moving surface, and hopefully the grain will be completely invisible to DV camera, if fine grained enough. This has actually got me somewhat excited, and I may even go out tommorow and shoot some tests and see if it is even possible to project an image onto the film surface. Should be interesting.

[Stefan Scherperel]

Oh, I see the slide film idea was taken in the other thread, maybe I should have read that one first.

[Stefan Scherperel]

Well, I got some bad news. I had a whole bunch of medium format slide film archived away from this last summer, so I figured I would see if it were even possible to project an image. Well I found that with some trying I could project the image on the film, and it was focusable and everything, however, the film, (I was using an overcast slightly underxposed sky for the fogged look) was just too transparent and even though I could see the focused image, right behind it I was looking right down the barrel of the lens. The film just isn't opaque enough for this to work. Even in shodowy areas it is still too translusent and I can see right through it. Well, it was a good idea, but I just don't think its going to work.

[Filip Kovcin]

the problem is that you should NOT use normally developed film. in my opinion it's useless. the thing (if any) we should check is WRONGLY DEVELOPED film, which has thin layer which is fogged enough to "receive" all picture as normal GG.

filip

[Filip Kovcin]

correction to my previous post - saying WRONGLY DEVELOPED - i mean to use process which is not normal developing process, but somehow limited, changed - to receive fogged surface proper for GG.

filip

[Craig Bellaire]

But has anyone tried this method? I see and have read both threads but has someone actualy tried this? Thanks

[Stefan Scherperel]

Well, I worked in a photography studio/pro lab for a couple of years. The problem is figuring out what kind of development process would give you the desired look. I guess this would be benefitial to use B&W film because you can develop it yourself. I know that if fixer goes bad it can fog the film, maybe if you got some really really bad fixer it could give the desired effect.

[Bob Hart]

I think what you are going to get is small pieces of aerial image masked off in miniature spots by small opaque crystals. It will be an optical filter of sorts but not a groundglass.