Micro35 (original thread)

John Sandel · February 28th, 2005, 01:24 AM

Brad, I have the same questions about James's gadget with the XL2. My impression is that James has gotten a bigger response to his design & product than he may have expected. Still, he's been diligent about responding, given the overload of work required to get tooled up in a professional way.

I expect, inferring James's ingenuity (from afar; dunno the guy in person), that---if we XL2 owners wait a bit---he'll rig up a solution to the image-output problem. Before then its absence may be inhibiting to XL2 shooters. This is just my guess, of course, and James may tell me to go somewhere hot and uncomfortable. He's surprised me before.

To date, the photos James has released show his gadget mounted to a DVX100 and, as you may know, that flip-out viewfinder can be tricked into inverting its image by the judicious insertion of a small magnet.

As an XL2 owner, I'll withhold my buying decision 'til I see James's plans. I want my "viewfinder" to be upright and correct right-to-left, and need to see how that can be done.

James Hurd · February 28th, 2005, 01:35 AM

Thanks John,
You're correct. The response has been very overwhelming. I'm getting the DVX (and other straight forward cameras) units in production as we speak. This should give me the time I need to concentrate on the XL1/XL2 solution. I'm very excited about getting the XL2 solution completed. I just need to focus on getting the DVX solution running on autopilot.

We'll get there.

Mark Kubat · February 28th, 2005, 04:56 AM

At first glance it looks to be different but upon removing the lens hood you'll find the Sony HDV cam has the same 72 mm as DVX... in case you were wondering and had not yet gotten first-hand time with the Sony cam...

Hope this helps!

Brett A. Noe · February 28th, 2005, 10:39 AM

Brad and John,

You may want to check out the following thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23982

I tested the magnet trick this weekend on my GL2, and it works perfectly. You may want to try your own tests on the XL2 and see if it works.

Brett

John Sandel · February 28th, 2005, 10:51 AM

Brett, thanks for the link. Unfortunately, the XL2 doesn't have a flip-out LCD monitor. Its viewfinder is a separate electronic/optical tube, patterned after the big ENG cams and cabled to the body via a proprietary plug. It can be removed entirely and remounted on the "wrong" side of the XL2, which flips the image vertically. Flipping it horizontally will be harder.

I believe James once speculated in these pages about an in-line converter which would emulate the "magnet trick." But such a solution will require a fair amount of testing (to map the viewfinder pinouts, rewire them &c) and experimenting.

Steev Dinkins · February 28th, 2005, 11:21 AM

Mounting on the "wrong" side doesn't just flip vertically. It does both, so the image is correct. This is a solution that anyone with a working DIY adapter for XL1/XL2 can attest to.

However it's not ideal for a few reasons. The flip cap is in a less than ideal place, and all ergonomics of the camera controls on the left side, with viewfinder on the right, is a little strange. Of course your viewfinder info is upside down, but would be the same problem for the DVX and GL2. The additional hassle is if you're wanting to use the camera for fast set ups with and without the 35mm adapter. But most likely in practice, I'd be going for entire shoots with the 35mm.

An upside down Nebtek or something would be pretty cool, since the XL2 viewfinder is so damn small.

The entire system will be a complex mod, especially if someone comes up with an alternate XL lens to "do this right". Tough stuff.

John Sandel · February 28th, 2005, 11:32 AM

"Mounting on the 'wrong' side doesn't just flip vertically"

You're right. It was my head that was screwed on wrong ...

Robert Double · March 2nd, 2005, 05:36 AM

Quick question for Obin. Obin you posted this a while back :

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : I am sold. when you can show me some un-compressed DV codec footage from the dvx100 and it is problem free I will buy the guide. I will also most likely spend the big cash on the Dan GG adaptor that looks VERY professional..I guess I will have both types and keep what works best for me ;) I would be happy to post projects on here that we shoot with a GG adaptor..the one thing Dan has going is a SMALL SIZE and CNC cut metal housing ...I think his adaptor will be a much more professional rig but the price IS 10x higher so I would hope so!! ;)
-->>>

Where can I find some information out about Dan's adapter? I went to http://dandiaconu.com/, and there are a few photo's of a rig he made but unless I am having a dumb moment I did not see any mention of him describing how he built it, or him selling it?

Looking forward to seeing what James delivers though, and what other dvinfo.net user things on the delivered product.

Cheers

Robert

Joel Aaron · March 2nd, 2005, 08:35 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Double :

Where can I find some information out about Dan's adapter? I went to http://dandiaconu.com/, and there are a few photo's of a rig he made but unless I am having a dumb moment I did not see any mention of him describing how he built it, or him selling it?

-->>>

Try this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&pagenumber=14

He mentioned he's working up a lower cost version too - it might be a kit, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if Obin was thinking of springing for $3500 when he wrote that.

I do know this, I'm going to be interested in the new Panasonic HD camera that's going to be announced at NAB next month. A good quality converter on that camera might really be a great combo. At least I hope so. :-)

I'm still pretty partial to Brett's idea of using medium format lenses and a bigger GG. Hopefully we'll get side by side tests at some point.

Dave Frank · March 3rd, 2005, 04:40 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by James Hurd : The magiqcam is awesome.
-->>>

I was wondering about your comment about the magiqcam. On their website, it says this unit is rated for cameras 1-5 lbs. How would a 15lbs system work with this?

Joel Aaron · March 3rd, 2005, 08:21 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Frank : <<<-- Originally posted by James Hurd : The magiqcam is awesome.
-->>>

I was wondering about your comment about the magiqcam. On their website, it says this unit is rated for cameras 1-5 lbs. How would a 15lbs system work with this?
-->>>

Dave, he sells 2 different versions. One version supports up to 15lbs, though I've heard that's really maxing it out. I asked specifically about the varicam (it's 11-15 stripped) and was told it should be OK. He did mention film cameras tended to be top heavy which may cause a problem when maxed out.

One word of warning/planning if you want one - I ordered mine 10 weeks ago and still don't have it. 2 weeks ago he told me he'd have me a tracking number in a couple days as mine was next, and blamed the delay on a supplier that stopped carrying a part he used.

They quote 4-6 weeks if you ask. Don't believe it. James said he waited 11 for his. Weak/slow email response, slow delivery, prompt credit card processing - that's all I know at this point. I've seen other people post the same things but I always figured they were flukes.

Hopefully it'll be as nice a James indicates.

Dave Frank · March 3rd, 2005, 12:01 PM

I appreciate your input Joel. I never buy from companies who can't get customer service right. Not to mention the fact I need it a lot sooner than 10 weeks!

James Hurd · March 3rd, 2005, 12:05 PM

It was worth the wait for me.

Alex Stobbs · March 4th, 2005, 11:21 AM

James,

Will the adaptor work with a Panasonic NV-GS400, with or without 55mm step-up ring?

Alex Stobbs · March 4th, 2005, 11:21 AM

James,

Will the adaptor work with a Panasonic NV-GS400, with or without 55mm step-up ring?

February 28th, 2005, 04:56 AM	#318
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	hey, James - just so you know about Sony HDV FX1/Z1U At first glance it looks to be different but upon removing the lens hood you'll find the Sony HDV cam has the same 72 mm as DVX... in case you were wondering and had not yet gotten first-hand time with the Sony cam... Hope this helps!

March 2nd, 2005, 05:36 AM	#323
Robert Double Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 74	Dan's adapter Quick question for Obin. Obin you posted this a while back : <<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : I am sold. when you can show me some un-compressed DV codec footage from the dvx100 and it is problem free I will buy the guide. I will also most likely spend the big cash on the Dan GG adaptor that looks VERY professional..I guess I will have both types and keep what works best for me ;) I would be happy to post projects on here that we shoot with a GG adaptor..the one thing Dan has going is a SMALL SIZE and CNC cut metal housing ...I think his adaptor will be a much more professional rig but the price IS 10x higher so I would hope so!! ;) -->>> Where can I find some information out about Dan's adapter? I went to http://dandiaconu.com/, and there are a few photo's of a rig he made but unless I am having a dumb moment I did not see any mention of him describing how he built it, or him selling it? Looking forward to seeing what James delivers though, and what other dvinfo.net user things on the delivered product. Cheers Robert

March 2nd, 2005, 08:35 AM	#324
Joel Aaron Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ - USA Posts: 300	Re: Dan's adapter <<<-- Originally posted by Robert Double : Where can I find some information out about Dan's adapter? I went to http://dandiaconu.com/, and there are a few photo's of a rig he made but unless I am having a dumb moment I did not see any mention of him describing how he built it, or him selling it? -->>> Try this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&pagenumber=14 He mentioned he's working up a lower cost version too - it might be a kit, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if Obin was thinking of springing for $3500 when he wrote that. I do know this, I'm going to be interested in the new Panasonic HD camera that's going to be announced at NAB next month. A good quality converter on that camera might really be a great combo. At least I hope so. :-) I'm still pretty partial to Brett's idea of using medium format lenses and a bigger GG. Hopefully we'll get side by side tests at some point.

March 3rd, 2005, 04:40 AM	#325
Dave Frank Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 244	<<<-- Originally posted by James Hurd : The magiqcam is awesome. -->>> I was wondering about your comment about the magiqcam. On their website, it says this unit is rated for cameras 1-5 lbs. How would a 15lbs system work with this? __________________ http://www.sleeptightmovie.com

March 3rd, 2005, 12:01 PM	#327
Dave Frank Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 244	I appreciate your input Joel. I never buy from companies who can't get customer service right. Not to mention the fact I need it a lot sooner than 10 weeks! __________________ http://www.sleeptightmovie.com

February 28th, 2005, 01:24 AM	#316
John Sandel Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: stately Eldora Road Posts: 386	Brad, I have the same questions about James's gadget with the XL2. My impression is that James has gotten a bigger response to his design & product than he may have expected. Still, he's been diligent about responding, given the overload of work required to get tooled up in a professional way. I expect, inferring James's ingenuity (from afar; dunno the guy in person), that---if we XL2 owners wait a bit---he'll rig up a solution to the image-output problem. Before then its absence may be inhibiting to XL2 shooters. This is just my guess, of course, and James may tell me to go somewhere hot and uncomfortable. He's surprised me before. To date, the photos James has released show his gadget mounted to a DVX100 and, as you may know, that flip-out viewfinder can be tricked into inverting its image by the judicious insertion of a small magnet. As an XL2 owner, I'll withhold my buying decision 'til I see James's plans. I want my "viewfinder" to be upright and correct right-to-left, and need to see how that can be done.

February 28th, 2005, 01:35 AM	#317
James Hurd Micro35 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 221	Thanks John, You're correct. The response has been very overwhelming. I'm getting the DVX (and other straight forward cameras) units in production as we speak. This should give me the time I need to concentrate on the XL1/XL2 solution. I'm very excited about getting the XL2 solution completed. I just need to focus on getting the DVX solution running on autopilot. We'll get there.

February 28th, 2005, 10:39 AM	#319
Brett A. Noe New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 20	Brad and John, You may want to check out the following thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23982 I tested the magnet trick this weekend on my GL2, and it works perfectly. You may want to try your own tests on the XL2 and see if it works. Brett

February 28th, 2005, 10:51 AM	#320
John Sandel Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: stately Eldora Road Posts: 386	Brett, thanks for the link. Unfortunately, the XL2 doesn't have a flip-out LCD monitor. Its viewfinder is a separate electronic/optical tube, patterned after the big ENG cams and cabled to the body via a proprietary plug. It can be removed entirely and remounted on the "wrong" side of the XL2, which flips the image vertically. Flipping it horizontally will be harder. I believe James once speculated in these pages about an in-line converter which would emulate the "magnet trick." But such a solution will require a fair amount of testing (to map the viewfinder pinouts, rewire them &c) and experimenting.

February 28th, 2005, 11:21 AM	#321
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Mounting on the "wrong" side doesn't just flip vertically. It does both, so the image is correct. This is a solution that anyone with a working DIY adapter for XL1/XL2 can attest to. However it's not ideal for a few reasons. The flip cap is in a less than ideal place, and all ergonomics of the camera controls on the left side, with viewfinder on the right, is a little strange. Of course your viewfinder info is upside down, but would be the same problem for the DVX and GL2. The additional hassle is if you're wanting to use the camera for fast set ups with and without the 35mm adapter. But most likely in practice, I'd be going for entire shoots with the 35mm. An upside down Nebtek or something would be pretty cool, since the XL2 viewfinder is so damn small. The entire system will be a complex mod, especially if someone comes up with an alternate XL lens to "do this right". Tough stuff.

February 28th, 2005, 11:32 AM	#322
John Sandel Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: stately Eldora Road Posts: 386	"Mounting on the 'wrong' side doesn't just flip vertically" You're right. It was my head that was screwed on wrong ...

March 3rd, 2005, 08:21 AM	#326
Joel Aaron Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ - USA Posts: 300	<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Frank : <<<-- Originally posted by James Hurd : The magiqcam is awesome. -->>> I was wondering about your comment about the magiqcam. On their website, it says this unit is rated for cameras 1-5 lbs. How would a 15lbs system work with this? -->>> Dave, he sells 2 different versions. One version supports up to 15lbs, though I've heard that's really maxing it out. I asked specifically about the varicam (it's 11-15 stripped) and was told it should be OK. He did mention film cameras tended to be top heavy which may cause a problem when maxed out. One word of warning/planning if you want one - I ordered mine 10 weeks ago and still don't have it. 2 weeks ago he told me he'd have me a tracking number in a couple days as mine was next, and blamed the delay on a supplier that stopped carrying a part he used. They quote 4-6 weeks if you ask. Don't believe it. James said he waited 11 for his. Weak/slow email response, slow delivery, prompt credit card processing - that's all I know at this point. I've seen other people post the same things but I always figured they were flukes. Hopefully it'll be as nice a James indicates.

March 3rd, 2005, 12:05 PM	#328
James Hurd Micro35 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 221	It was worth the wait for me.

March 4th, 2005, 11:21 AM	#329
Alex Stobbs Tourist Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 2	James, Will the adaptor work with a Panasonic NV-GS400, with or without 55mm step-up ring?

March 4th, 2005, 11:21 AM	#330
Alex Stobbs Tourist Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 2	James, Will the adaptor work with a Panasonic NV-GS400, with or without 55mm step-up ring?