Beattie needed ? at DVinfo.net

Daves Spi · February 22nd, 2005, 10:18 AM

After lots of our tries, we persuade classic ground glass is not usable. We let made custom GG from glass, which we attached to hard disk drive. We reached good stable image, but still lots of vigneting. Using 24x18 is such waste of DOF - In fact because you zoom from 36mm to 24mm, you decrease resolution in 1/4. Also you need to be farther from scene, so more things become sharp... I tried to use old fresnel lens in front of rotating ground glass and it was fabulous... So much light now, even in corners, no vigneting... Am I doing something wrong, or fresnel lens is only one way to reach real 36mm ?

Help please...

Dan Diaconu · February 22nd, 2005, 11:54 AM

see the difference between plain GG and Fresnel here:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests
that is why, the only way (I know of) to get a FULL 24/36mm
image WITHOUT vigneting IS using a Fresnel focusing screen.

Steev Dinkins · February 22nd, 2005, 02:14 PM

Do the Beattie. Good stuff.

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/...mm_Still36.png

Barely any light and still a nice image, and no lens distortion.

Dan Diaconu · February 22nd, 2005, 03:06 PM

Cmmooon Steve,
show some outdoor or even indoor but even lit, so the corners are CLEARLY bright with no VIGNETING AT FULL 24/36 (or even bigger) SIZE!
(it almost looks like I did the brightness tests for myself and I am talking to myself here) well,... you've got it allright! :-)<

Steev Dinkins · February 22nd, 2005, 03:19 PM

Eh.. haven't gotten around to it yet with the latest Beattie screen that i ground down to a perfect 54mm (or so) circle.

The point being that the Beattie was the breakthrough for me, a vast improvement from using simple ground glass.

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/...mm_Still27.png

Blah ba blah blahhhhhh. :)

Still waiting for Dan to hook up his best friend Steev over here with his kick ass invention.

Dan Diaconu · February 22nd, 2005, 03:35 PM

grazie signore, working on it!

Steev Dinkins · February 22nd, 2005, 03:38 PM

Super Shweeet :D

Leo Mandy · February 22nd, 2005, 04:58 PM

Steve, is that a static GG (beattie screen) that you are using? I am unsure what you meant by 'grinding it down to 54mm'. Any chance you can elaborate? BTW, those shots looked amazing!

Opps, just checked out your site, thanks!

I noticed that you use a 10+ macro - I have one and it is impossible to see anything more than an 1 inch away from it - is that why you put the beattie screen with it?

BTW, that outdoor footage is amazing! The best that I have seen!

Steev Dinkins · February 22nd, 2005, 05:08 PM

Mandy, that's my simple, yet expensively invented static device. I bought a Square plain Beattie screen and ground it on sandpaper until it was perfectly round and would fit inside an empty 55mm filter ring.

By and large, people aren't caring too much for a static adapter these days. However, this thing is useable "today." Still waiting for the better solutions to actually arrive on the doorstep. Perhaps in the next 6 months? Perhaps after NAB when an affordable Panasonic DVCPRO HD camera comes out?

:D :D :D

steev
www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/

Daves Spi · February 23rd, 2005, 02:25 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Diaconu : see the difference between plain GG and Fresnel here:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests
that is why, the only way (I know of) to get a FULL 24/36mm
image WITHOUT vigneting IS using a Fresnel focusing screen. -->>>

Yes, I've seen this many times :) Is what you are using beattie focus screen, or just some fresnel lens from standard camera ?

Daves Spi · February 23rd, 2005, 02:43 AM

Steev Dinkins : Probably Beattie (or some fresnel lens from camera finder) is only one way I will move now... But I notice some color aberation on some of your photos... I do not know if you solve it out, but I had same problem caused by macro lens. I throw this away, bought Pentacon 135 lenses, broke it and took front lens of it and used it as macro. All color aberation is gone :)

Steev Dinkins · February 23rd, 2005, 02:50 AM

Ack. Infinite ways we find to create these monsters. The aberation is minor enough to be insignificant to me, especially where I'd been in earlier development. At this point I realize the far bigger challenge is getting out with a script, gear, talent, drive, and time to shoot something worthwhile. The image quality is definitely more than good enough for all kinds of indie goodness.

To be on topic with you here, yes the Beattie was a god send. Awesome thingy. :)

Daves Spi · February 23rd, 2005, 02:59 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Ack. Infinite ways we find to create these monsters. The aberation is minor enough to be insignificant to me, especially where I'd been in earlier development. At this point I realize the far bigger challenge is getting out with a script, gear, talent, drive, and time to shoot something worthwhile. The image quality is definitely more than good enough for all kinds of indie goodness.

To be on topic with you here, yes the Beattie was a god send. Awesome thingy. :) -->>>

Step behind you :) I have already picked up actors, script is ready even with scripting software... Just angry with vignetting on rotating GG, watching myself in your funny adapter video :)... Would like to start shooting on April 05. Hope beattie save me...

http://film.datriware.com - where you find DoF & steadycam project... Not in english at all, but pictures :)))

Steev Dinkins · February 23rd, 2005, 03:12 AM

Oh yeah - http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p844.jpg

It's you. That is a wildly cool looking thing there. I have NO idea how you did it or how it works.

How are you planning on using the Beattie? Static, rotating?

Daves Spi · February 23rd, 2005, 03:23 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Oh yeah - http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p844.jpg

It's you. That is a wildly cool looking thing there. I have NO idea how you did it or how it works.

How are you planning on using the Beattie? Static, rotating? -->>>

Our first idea was to make rotating ground glass. We let made it from 2mm glass 85mm and attached to hard drive... Inside the wildy cool looking thing there :))) Everything was working perfect, but I'm not happy with 24x18 screen, especially with using 70-200 lens. I do not like wasting DoF, I want it all :) So we made some tests with focusing screen of camera. We split it to fresnel and Ground glass and use just the fresnel with our rotating glass. Its cool, but groundglass from camera is much smoother, we have 800 glass and I bet the one from camera is over 1200. So... my friend likes rotating things and prefers rotating Beattie in the cool looking thing, I prefer static Beattie in easy adapter. We will find the way in future :)

February 22nd, 2005, 10:18 AM	#1
Daves Spi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Czech republic, Prague Posts: 159	Beattie needed ? After lots of our tries, we persuade classic ground glass is not usable. We let made custom GG from glass, which we attached to hard disk drive. We reached good stable image, but still lots of vigneting. Using 24x18 is such waste of DOF - In fact because you zoom from 36mm to 24mm, you decrease resolution in 1/4. Also you need to be farther from scene, so more things become sharp... I tried to use old fresnel lens in front of rotating ground glass and it was fabulous... So much light now, even in corners, no vigneting... Am I doing something wrong, or fresnel lens is only one way to reach real 36mm ? Help please... __________________ Daves At the beginning there was an idea, then the ambition came and the idea became to be a dream... The Satisfied Dream => http://film.datriware.com

February 23rd, 2005, 02:25 AM	#10
Daves Spi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Czech republic, Prague Posts: 159	<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Diaconu : see the difference between plain GG and Fresnel here: http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests that is why, the only way (I know of) to get a FULL 24/36mm image WITHOUT vigneting IS using a Fresnel focusing screen. -->>> Yes, I've seen this many times :) Is what you are using beattie focus screen, or just some fresnel lens from standard camera ? __________________ Daves At the beginning there was an idea, then the ambition came and the idea became to be a dream... The Satisfied Dream => http://film.datriware.com

February 23rd, 2005, 02:43 AM	#11
Daves Spi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Czech republic, Prague Posts: 159	Steev Dinkins : Probably Beattie (or some fresnel lens from camera finder) is only one way I will move now... But I notice some color aberation on some of your photos... I do not know if you solve it out, but I had same problem caused by macro lens. I throw this away, bought Pentacon 135 lenses, broke it and took front lens of it and used it as macro. All color aberation is gone :) __________________ Daves At the beginning there was an idea, then the ambition came and the idea became to be a dream... The Satisfied Dream => http://film.datriware.com

February 23rd, 2005, 02:59 AM	#13
Daves Spi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Czech republic, Prague Posts: 159	<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Ack. Infinite ways we find to create these monsters. The aberation is minor enough to be insignificant to me, especially where I'd been in earlier development. At this point I realize the far bigger challenge is getting out with a script, gear, talent, drive, and time to shoot something worthwhile. The image quality is definitely more than good enough for all kinds of indie goodness. To be on topic with you here, yes the Beattie was a god send. Awesome thingy. :) -->>> Step behind you :) I have already picked up actors, script is ready even with scripting software... Just angry with vignetting on rotating GG, watching myself in your funny adapter video :)... Would like to start shooting on April 05. Hope beattie save me... http://film.datriware.com - where you find DoF & steadycam project... Not in english at all, but pictures :))) __________________ Daves At the beginning there was an idea, then the ambition came and the idea became to be a dream... The Satisfied Dream => http://film.datriware.com

February 23rd, 2005, 03:23 AM	#15
Daves Spi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Czech republic, Prague Posts: 159	<<<-- Originally posted by Steev Dinkins : Oh yeah - http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p844.jpg It's you. That is a wildly cool looking thing there. I have NO idea how you did it or how it works. How are you planning on using the Beattie? Static, rotating? -->>> Our first idea was to make rotating ground glass. We let made it from 2mm glass 85mm and attached to hard drive... Inside the wildy cool looking thing there :))) Everything was working perfect, but I'm not happy with 24x18 screen, especially with using 70-200 lens. I do not like wasting DoF, I want it all :) So we made some tests with focusing screen of camera. We split it to fresnel and Ground glass and use just the fresnel with our rotating glass. Its cool, but groundglass from camera is much smoother, we have 800 glass and I bet the one from camera is over 1200. So... my friend likes rotating things and prefers rotating Beattie in the cool looking thing, I prefer static Beattie in easy adapter. We will find the way in future :) __________________ Daves At the beginning there was an idea, then the ambition came and the idea became to be a dream... The Satisfied Dream => http://film.datriware.com

February 22nd, 2005, 11:54 AM	#2
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	see the difference between plain GG and Fresnel here: http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/Brightnes-tests that is why, the only way (I know of) to get a FULL 24/36mm image WITHOUT vigneting IS using a Fresnel focusing screen.

February 22nd, 2005, 02:14 PM	#3
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Do the Beattie. Good stuff. http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/...mm_Still36.png Barely any light and still a nice image, and no lens distortion.

February 22nd, 2005, 03:06 PM	#4
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Cmmooon Steve, show some outdoor or even indoor but even lit, so the corners are CLEARLY bright with no VIGNETING AT FULL 24/36 (or even bigger) SIZE! (it almost looks like I did the brightness tests for myself and I am talking to myself here) well,... you've got it allright! :-)<

February 22nd, 2005, 03:19 PM	#5
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Eh.. haven't gotten around to it yet with the latest Beattie screen that i ground down to a perfect 54mm (or so) circle. The point being that the Beattie was the breakthrough for me, a vast improvement from using simple ground glass. http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/...mm_Still27.png Blah ba blah blahhhhhh. :) Still waiting for Dan to hook up his best friend Steev over here with his kick ass invention.

February 22nd, 2005, 03:35 PM	#6
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	grazie signore, working on it!

February 22nd, 2005, 03:38 PM	#7
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Super Shweeet :D

February 22nd, 2005, 04:58 PM	#8
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Steve, is that a static GG (beattie screen) that you are using? I am unsure what you meant by 'grinding it down to 54mm'. Any chance you can elaborate? BTW, those shots looked amazing! Opps, just checked out your site, thanks! I noticed that you use a 10+ macro - I have one and it is impossible to see anything more than an 1 inch away from it - is that why you put the beattie screen with it? BTW, that outdoor footage is amazing! The best that I have seen!

February 22nd, 2005, 05:08 PM	#9
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Mandy, that's my simple, yet expensively invented static device. I bought a Square plain Beattie screen and ground it on sandpaper until it was perfectly round and would fit inside an empty 55mm filter ring. By and large, people aren't caring too much for a static adapter these days. However, this thing is useable "today." Still waiting for the better solutions to actually arrive on the doorstep. Perhaps in the next 6 months? Perhaps after NAB when an affordable Panasonic DVCPRO HD camera comes out? :D :D :D steev www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/

February 23rd, 2005, 02:50 AM	#12
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Ack. Infinite ways we find to create these monsters. The aberation is minor enough to be insignificant to me, especially where I'd been in earlier development. At this point I realize the far bigger challenge is getting out with a script, gear, talent, drive, and time to shoot something worthwhile. The image quality is definitely more than good enough for all kinds of indie goodness. To be on topic with you here, yes the Beattie was a god send. Awesome thingy. :)

February 23rd, 2005, 03:12 AM	#14
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Oh yeah - http://web.datriware.com/gfx_photos/articles/p844.jpg It's you. That is a wildly cool looking thing there. I have NO idea how you did it or how it works. How are you planning on using the Beattie? Static, rotating?