Today I received an email from Small HD regarding their 9" monitor that they have been teasing us with for a long time.

SmallHD.com - 8.9" High Definition - the DP1 (http://www.smallhd.com/)

I was thinking that the price would be less than $800.

I am anxious to see what others here think....

Daniel Weber

Yeahhhhhhhh I got it :)
799 USD preorder price is 749 (just on 5th of MAY)

Do anybody know more info about accessories price? (battery)

Would be nice more info about menu..etc

PS: Could somebody convert this: "Eastern Standard Time" to UTC..

Ya I just emailed dale hopefully not to high I was also trying to find out
if the 12v was only for the battery or was there a mini plug we will see
soon.

shawn

Miklos, the batteries are probably priced around $60-65 a piece, being as the email says you can buy two for the price of the tekkeon (assuming it's the MP3450)

Really happy about the DP1 - I'm shooting to be one of the first on the pre-order list :)

Has anybody seen the image the monitor produces?
How does it compare to Ikan or even the Marshall? Prices are all similar enough to be considered (give or take a few hundred dollars), so if one produces a better image and is only a few bucks more, I'd go with that. But if SmallHD has a superior image (they claim a better viewing angel), that would be my first choice.

Has anybody seen the image the monitor produces?
How does it compare to Ikan or even the Marshall? Prices are all similar enough to be considered (give or take a few hundred dollars), so if one produces a better image and is only a few bucks more, I'd go with that. But if SmallHD has a superior image (they claim a better viewing angel), that would be my first choice.

Well, being as the announcement was made today and it won't be shipping until next month, no one but Dale and the guys at SmallHD have seen the image that it produces.

I'd put $800 on it that this thing will produce a FAR superior image to iKan and Marshall, which are both hilariously low resolution monitors - SmallHD is literally the first smaller sized monitor to offer true HD resolution.

Enjoy!

I got the mail too, sadly it doesn't look like the DP1 has any of the features of the Marshall that work well with the 5dmkII like false colour and peaking. Also these guys need to put a unit or two out in the blogosphere for people to test, I'd be interested to see if this monitor takes time to switch resolutions when you hit record on a 5dmkII, most other monitors seem to take an age to do this.

Dan

Is anyone else having a hard time getting the email subscription on their site to work? Seems like a bad omen...

I was emailed this info as well. The price is considerably more than originally targeted many months ago ($500-ish), but I suppose that's expected.

Unless I'm missing something, I find it peculiar where the menu buttons are located. Anyone else wonder about this? Also, there's no info I could find what menu setup options are included.

Am I the only one that doesn't see the need for the VGA connector? I think more people would consider this as a viable choice if it had hd sdi input & bnc connectors rather than RCA.

Am I the only one that doesn't see the need for the VGA connector? I think more people would consider this as a viable choice if it had hd sdi input & bnc connectors rather than RCA.

These products are custom packages around commodity LCDs and mother boards with video and LCD driver chips. The features you list are wanted, but such support requires a custom design of circuit boards and often the chips that are used to populate them. The VGA connector could be removed, but it's already on the circuit board.

No HD-SDI input?

I was also surprised with the new price because this product was announce earlier for $450
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sdtv-hdtv-video-monitors/129762-2-low-cost-hd-field-monitors.html

Also, the monitor does not come with a battery or charger, so thats an extra $200 dollars or so, thats a total of $1000 for the complete unit.

I'd rather wait and see reviews on it before I make my decision.

Also, I'd like to see comparisons between SmallHD, Ikan, and Marshall's monitor.

I'd rather buy the Manhattan monitor for $499
Manhattan LCD (http://www.manhattanlcd.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=7003&Show=TechSpecs)

I was also surprised with the new price because this product was announce earlier for $450
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sdtv-hdtv-video-monitors/129762-2-low-cost-hd-field-monitors.html

Also, the monitor does not come with a battery or charger, so thats an extra $200 dollars or so, thats a total of $1000 for the complete unit.

I'd rather wait and see reviews on it before I make my decision.

Also, I'd like to see comparisons between SmallHD, Ikan, and Marshall's monitor.

I'd rather buy the Manhattan monitor for $499
Manhattan LCD (http://www.manhattanlcd.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=7003&Show=TechSpecs)

Um no, the SmallHD XII was announced with the prospect of being $450 - the DP1 is a COMPLETELY different monitor and it's ridiculous to gripe about something that's so drastically different.

It's already been stated that the batteries are about 1/2 the cost of a Tekkeon, meaning they're about $60 each, and I can't imagine a charger being much more. That being said, I do highly recommend the tekkeon packs since they're inexpensive, include chargers, and they last FOREVER. Keep these things in mind before blowing the whole story out of proportion next time...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/961166-post61.html was the post by Dale himself saying they HOPED (keyword) to have the price in the $500 range.

I am a litle bit disapointed because of the price, with all accessories it costs about 950.. (two akus 2x60 USD plus charger plus sunshade plus Battery Mounting Bracket)
and there is no HD SDI, we do not have info about menu (focus help, color settings etc) so I will wait for test and more info... not to buy on 5th of may...

and still interested in Ikan V5600 (at BH 650 USD)

I had set aside us $600 for "whatever smallhd comes up with", but the new pricepoint is just high enough i cant swing it right now, and possibly not for some time thanks to the fall of western civilization we are experiencing.

So i understand the disappointment over the price... but to be honest i never believed they'd be able to pull off what they planned for that cost. The one piece anodized case is really quite unusual, if not kickass.

Until I see one of the smallhd in person i cant say for sure, but this is why the monitor is far more exciting than most of the other offerings in the pricerange:

1. resolution. Frankly, this is the reason to care about this monitor. It can display a full 720P image at 1:1 pixel. In other words, there is NO downsampling (in 720p). Instead of a focus assist tool, the monitor shows you a full resolution image (in 720p), so you can see with your naked eyes whether you are focused or not. WYSIWYG (in 720p). Amazing. Hows it look in SD or 1080? that remains to be seen. I'd assume that it would be miles better than an image downsampled to 800x600 or less... but thats an assumption, not fact. some people claim a well downsampled low rez image looks better than an average downsampling at a much higher rez. Sounds plausible in theory. We'll see!

2. lots of rugged mounting points. Not only does it have mounting holes all over, but since the case of the monitor is built out of a solid hunk of alloy, the mounting points should be extremely strong and durable.

3. small. As the name implies, the unit is small, lightweight and high res. You can find 2 of those 3 features in other monitors, but rarely all 3.

And thats pretty much it. 3 good reasons to like a monitor, but not perfect for everyone. The lack of SDI wasnt an oversight. SDI was always considered a "if this sells, we'll ramp up for an SDI version" plan. In the last year SDI has come more and more in vogue, but its still a feature never planned for this particular unit.

My dream monitor would have hdmi, analog composite, s-video, analog HD and SDI. The monitor would be daylight viewable without a hood, would have perfect color rendition, and a FULL 1080p resolution, a low battery draw and it would cost $600.

That monitor doesn't currently exist for any price, so its a matter of choosing which features are the most important. I cant have everything in one unit (yet). Since *every* monitor is missing some of the dream features, I reckon complaining about what one lacks vs. another is pretty pointless.

Resolution
Brightness/transflective
Image clarity
weight
size
power consumption
color accuracy
assist modes
ports
passthrough
price

Show me ANY monitor that nails any of those points and I can point out how it falls seriously short on others.

The smallhd hits a combo of those points nobody else was hitting. Manhattanlcd has filled in some of the niche in the last year, but frankly, i'm thrilled to see another option at a fairly reasonable pricerange (and not much more expensive than the apples-to-apples manhattanlcd unit). Sadly, not the "ubercheap bargain" i dreamed of, but the rest of the unit sounds pretty sweet.

just waxing poetic. sorry if it offends anyone.

Double expected price, no HD SDI, no common batteries (IDX, AB) connection option,
does it at least flip the image?

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/961166-post61.html was the post by Dale himself saying they HOPED (keyword) to have the price in the $500 range.

Things change, and I can completely understand that.

So the DP1 works with RED include MENU. Great news! (hopefully it will works with Scarlet also)

Dale, is it possible to show some picture about DP1 with RED? (before 5th of May)
regards: Miki

I will get an image of the DP1 working with various cameras before may 5, including RED.

I'll at the very least have it of RED.
Dale

OHHH:)
Great news! Thanks for that. This help me to make decision on 5th of may.

What is the brightness level of the monitor in NITS? thanks!

I was also disappointed with the $799 price point when I got the email. Especially since that did not include the battery.

I noticed in the last few days that Ikan has reduced the price of their 8" HD with HDMI down to $795 list and one major retailer has it for $719. I wonder if that is in response to Manhattan and now SmallHD?

It is looking more and more like the Manhattan for $499 with a Tekkeon3450 battery from Amazon for $119 is going to be my choice.

Good Morning,

I was wondering a couple things: 1. if ti is a 720 p monitor and your shooting 60i will that work just fine or not. considering an average view finder runs 200,000 to 300,000 pixels, 720x1980 is over a megapixel of resolution, substantial improvement!!! Talk about focus assist!!

Will it be battery dedicated, or can you use a 12 volt lighter attachment to run to other batteries?

Dale,

On their web site they say that the units are shipped with a 12V adapter so I imagine you'd be able to just get a 12V lighter adapter with the correct sized connector into the monitor and you'd be good to go. That's an option I'm considering.

Garrett

Yes, you can definitely use a cigarette car adapter.. just need the right tip.

Our tip is 5.5mm OD and 2.1mm ID, which is very standard and very easy to find. We will probably offer the correct adapter on our site in the near future.

Brightness of the LCD is 300 nits. Turns out to be plenty bright outdoors in overcast or shaded areas.. Direct overhead sunlight, you'll want a sunhood, which we are custom developing.

And yes, 720p native on a monitor works beautifully for focus assist, which is the main purpose of this monitor, which is why we didn't skimp on panel selection.

Thanks,
Dale

Double expected price, no HD SDI, no common batteries (IDX, AB) connection option,
does it at least flip the image?

So you expected it to be a $400 monitor? Dream on!

Does it flip the image? It doesn't need to - there are solid mounting points on all sides, why would you need to flip the image?

So you expected it to be a $400 monitor? Dream on!

Does it flip the image? It doesn't need to - there are solid mounting points on all sides, why would you need to flip the image?

I dunno. I can think of a few times when software flipping would be easier than remounting the screen. Regardless, i thought software flipping was a common feature in the controller board, so I wouldn't be surprised if flipping is a menu option.

As to dreaming about the price... Hey, nothing wrong with dreams. Even Dale dreamed about the $450 price. Probably still does. I'm just glad I dont have a forum full of people commenting every time i'm too optimistic in scheduling or budgeting a video.

Anybody else old enough to remember sitting in the theater at the end of empire strikes back and having to face the fact that there wouldn't be closure until the NEXT movie came out, and how that was an eternity away?

Hehe. When i get too impatient i just remind myself how nothing could ever be as bad as that wait. Boy time goes slow when you are a kid. oy!

well put. I'm glad that you're at least one of the ones who understands how these things go, instead of just hollowly griping about things.

So you expected it to be a $400 monitor? Dream on!

my friend, I am no cheap, and it's not even about price, it's about keeping your promises to your potential customers,
If company go 100% price increase before even product released, it means they lied to me since the beginning, OR they have no clue what they doing; in both cases I'm not their customer
but I'm glad it's so easy to please some people

let's play nicely boys and girls - everyone has a right to their opinion, after all it's their money they will or won't be spending on smallHD - if we don't behave principal Hurd will lock this thread as well

SHHHH - he's coming down the hallway! get back to your seats and look busy!

Consider me flashing my "Wrangler" badge at you guys, although I'm more like the substitute teacher to Chris' principal...!

I will say this: I have seen a lot of products announced in the past few years that have either taken much longer to ship than projected dates, cost more or just plain fail to materialize. I think a lot of it has do with people being swayed by the concept that they can build something much cheaper than the "establishment" companies after adding up the cost of the raw materials, and then finding out the hard way that mass production, dealing with vendors (especially overseas) and all of the other nightmares of manufacturing are factors that they didn't anticipate--actually, it's virtually impossible to anticipate all of the potential speedbumps with today's ever changing economy.

Honestly, I find there is a rather greedy trend in the indie world , where the expectation is for products to cost a fraction of what they did a few years ago, which has inspired so many people to go into manufacturing. Couple this with the tendency to pre-announce products way before they are ready, either out of the belief that this will drum up pre-sales (maybe it's just the current fascination with announcing everything about one's lives and aspirations to the world). I know nothing about Small HD, so I can't comment on that company, but if they discovered along the way that their original plan of an inexpensive monitor was not feasible, or that the end product would be much improved if they had to raise the price and did so, I personally see that as an intelligent decision for both themselves and the end user.

Very few startups can afford to take a loss on their initial product line. RED is not a business model that most small companies can emulate, unless they have that kind of seed money. Unfortunately many have attempted to copy their early and often message board hype/shroud-of-mystery/changing-the-world marketing style, some even down to collecting deposits, and quite a few have embarrassed themselves in the process.

Pre-ordering is almost upon us... I still have not gotten a consensus in opinions from anywhere whether all the extra options on the new Marshall monitors outweigh the increased resolution of the SmallHD monitors or vice-versa. I'm teetering on the fence about which one...

Discussion anyone?

Marshall V-LCD70P-HDMI (around $950)
· High resolution 800 x 480 LCD panel
· 7" diagonal screen
· Durable, thin, and lightweight construction
· 250 cd/m² brightness, 400:1 contrast ratio
· 4 user-configurable function buttons
· Scratch Resistant Protective Screen
· RGB gain and bias control

· False Color On/Off
· Peaking Filter On/Off
· RGB Check Field / Field Detect
· 15:9, 16:9, 4:3, 1:1 Pixel-to-Pixel modes
· Variety of Markers
· Viewing angle L/R: 140°
· Viewing angle U/D: 100°
· 12W power consumption
· 1.3 pounds
· Video loop-through for component / composite
· Variety of User-Replaceable Battery Adapters available*

SmallHD ($749 pre-order)
· High resolution 1280 x 768 LCD panel
· 8.9" diagonal screen
· 300 cd/m² brightness, 500:1 contrast ratio
· RGB gain controls
· 178 degree viewing angle all directions
· < 10W power consumption
· 1.6 pounds

smallHD - "focus HD in HD."

marshall - "focus HD in... wait i can't tell if i'm shooting HD or... IS that in focus?"

First of all I wouldn't spend $950 on a monitor that isn't HD (it's what, HALF of 720p, not even?)

people get so caught up on features. try and focus on what's really important. In my opinion, SmallHD is a true winner, and I cannot wait to get mine.

Its a tough call, Leo.

You asked for a discussion, so i'll ramble my thoughts I've been having in no particular order.

1. ok, obviously resolution is the big one here. There are lots of reports saying that a high quality downsampler can make a lower rez image look superior to a slightly higher rez image created by an inferior downsampler. That sounds reasonable to me. But, 800x480 vs 1280x768 is 384,000 vs 983,040 pixels. Thats over two and a half times more pixels in the smallhd, or almost 600,000 more pixels (give or take depending on aspect ratio). I have a hard time imagining you could downsample an image so well it could make up that much difference. For critical focus like with a 35 adapter, i think the extra resolution will be extremely useful. And for 720p cameras, the unsampled image should be as good as it gets. But, yes, this is a fair bit of theoretical speculation for now. I've heard people discuss a point of diminishing returns for pixel density, and while i believe that, i've also found screens a similar density to the DP1 (the 800x480 screen the size of a business card on the cowan A3 for example) to be extremely pleasing and very easy to determine focus on clips scaled down and played back on the device at full rez (but not when captured live in SD)

2. menu buttons. I'm torn. On the one hand, having dedicated function buttons and knobs in the front makes a lot of sense. On the other, if I have the screen mounted on the camera or rails, then i want the least amount of object blocking my forward view. I ran into this with a portable dvd player we played with using as a camera monitor. That extra inch at the bottom of the marshall would annoy me and take away valuable peripheral vision. On the other hand, if i needed to access functions like 1:1 on the fly, then having the menu buttons on the back might be even more annoying. For the most part i don't imagine needing ready access to color/contrast knobs, nor would i prefer those functions as knobs since again, I wouldn't think i'd adjust them often. If the DP1 is as sharp as I imagine, then it might not even be necessary to use the 1:1 feature so having the buttons hidden away on the back might be fine. Thats a lot of speculation though, and one that can't really be answered without handling the two units.

3. Battery options. I looked in to various "pro battery" options when shopping for batteries for my cool lights LEDs. I was seriously shocked by not only how much the batteries cost but how much the charger was for these options. If i already had a pro-battery charging solution for a camera then the AB/etc mount options of the marshall might persuade me. If not, you can easily double the price of the monitor with a pro battery and charger. For my LEDs, i opted for a pair of tekkeon batteries with the piggyback battery that doubles their duration to 14ah or whatever. I also bought a half dozen 7ah sealed lead acid batteries with "spotlight bags" for cheap. However, the beauty of the DP1 and the lcd70p is how they only weigh 1.6lbs. The last thing i want to do is clamp a 3-5lb battery to it.

The smallHD battery intrigues me. Seems like a nice compact and lightweight solution. But there arent many specs on it, so who knows how much it actually weighs? It does look small.

If i shot with one type of camera, then the marshall's option to have a battery mount to match your camera battery is pretty cool. You could stock up on batteries and use the same one for both camera and monitor. I tend to bounce around using my grip gear with other people's cameras so if it doesn't match the camera i'm using at the moment, then no battery has an implicit advantage over any other. If the smallhd batteries are fast to charge and lightweight, then I reckon they'd be nice to use when the monitor is floating, and i'd use one of the more serious battery solutions when its mounted. Could easily do the same w/ the marshall and, say, a sony L mount, so it really depends on what you already have invested i suppose.

4. Brightness. smallhd is 300, marshall is 250. Thats a reasonably small difference. I doubt you'd see much of a naked-eye distinction and both would be invisible in sunlight without a serious sunshade. Close enough to not be a buying decision, really.

5. VGA input. heh. well. This would never be a selling point for me, but I like the idea of hooking up the smallHD to a battery and my laptop and having a second screen while running off battery. hehe. Could be the coolest geek on the train/plane. ha.

6. Durability. Hard to predict from specs. The anodized case should be a bombshell on the dp1... but that doesnt do anything to protect the face of the monitor, which is the same weak point on any monitor. The bezel on the marshall looks like it might protrude and protect a bit, but i cant tell from the renders whether the DP1 does the same. As a whole, Marshall monitors are well built and sturdy. I haven't been happy with the image quality of any i've seen, but the build quality and durability seem great. And the 70p claims scratch resistance, which is cool. Not sure what the dp1 has to offer on that front.

7. Brand. Well, Marshall has the advantage there by far. Its an established brand, a known reputation with supply chain backing. SmallHD is an upstart indy gearmaker who has zero reputation (negative according to some) and is trying to get enough direct sale preorders together to buffer the astronomical initial-run cost and make this sustainable.

I guess it all depends on your personality and perspective as to how big a risk it is. You can easily (and validly) see ordering a dp1 (especially preordering) as a gamble. As charles pointed out, though, its not like they are building components from the ground up. The screen, the controller, the power system... these are all standardized components. The value smallhd is bringing has been in sourcing the best and highest rez components they could find (after a YEAR of searching and comparing) negotiating small orders from the suppliers, and engineering a thoughtful and elegant (if not badass) case for it. Its not really that different from an upstart stripmall pc assembler sourcing parts for a wicked-fast machine vs. buying a less powerful machine for the same cost from a known brand like gateway/dell. Some people would never consider buying a dell, some would never consider buying a pc without a brand label.

The more I've weighed it, the more i've been sold on smallHD. Not "sold" like i want a smallhd tattoo or anything, but sold that their vision for what they want their monitors to be is very close to what I would build were I in their shoes. Dripping with resolution, the core useful features and a sexy case with heaps of rugged mounting points. You can price out the components yourself and see there isnt much margin here. If you bought the parts, and paid a reasonable price for the custom machined case, then a reasonable fee to have someone else assemble the unit, I reckon you'd be pretty close to where smallhd is now for the preorder.

After all the discussion I've decided to get back in line for a smallhd preorder. I need a director/focus monitor and was basically sold on the manhattanlcd while curious about the smallhd. After really poring over smallhd's offering, i'm drawn to the case and the extra 368,000 pixels the dp1 has over the manhattan. In terms of value, I think its steps ahead of the manhattan and leaps over the marshall.

I suppose we'll see!

heh.

Any discussions on my discussion, Leo? I realize we all weigh various features differently, but if I've said something inaccurate, please holler.

Great food for discussion Andrew, thanks! And you hit on many points that I too, have been mulling over. I've got to run out right now but I will definitely jump back on the thread as soon as I'm back...

Cheers,

my order is in! Thanks Dale!

Preorder Here: SmallHD.com - 8.9" High Definition - the DP1 (http://www.smallhd.com/preorder/)

my order is in! Thanks Dale!

Preorder Here: SmallHD.com - 8.9" High Definition - the DP1 (http://www.smallhd.com/preorder/)

Great! I've been trying to place my order for over 30 minutes and it just won't go through :-( Called Dale and he said the servers must be slammed and to just keep trying!

EDIT: Alright, it finally went through... Probably way down the list now :-(

Great! I've been trying to place my order for over 30 minutes and it just won't go through :-( Called Dale and he said the servers must be slammed and to just keep trying!

EDIT: Alright, it finally went through... Probably way down the list now :-(


;) I think I was #3 or so. Don't worry, you'll be fine! I'm interested to know how many they'll get during this 24 hour period... are we gonna take bets?

I was busy until around 9:40 Pacific Time (12:40 ET) so i didn't get my order in until around 9:42. I emailed Dale to find out if there was anyway to tell what number in line I am in by my order number which is like 283108.

Did anyone order any accessories or batteries?

Garrett

I'm order #283051.


I ordered:

Black DP1 (with neoprene sleeve)
2 Batteries
Battery Mount
Sunhood
U-Bracket


Does anyone know when they're expected to ship?

I believe they are suppose to start shipping units on May 25th. Hopefully I'm like 108 in line and not 3108.. :(

I ordered mine also... it was a hard decision (hope my wife will not see the price:) )

Dale, PLS show us some picture with red, d5markII, THX!

PS: order noumber:#: 283203

also ordered aku and bracket,

I'm order #283051.


I ordered:

Black DP1 (with neoprene sleeve)
2 Batteries
Battery Mount
Sunhood
U-Bracket


Does anyone know when they're expected to ship?


Justin, I must have been right before you at #283047

Got the same stuff, except for the sunhood and U-bracket. I may have to add the sunhood on to my order, but we'll see.

Looking forward to the shipments, I can't wait to actually have a good monitor on set!

I'm with you. Looking forward to being able to focus my Letus Elite in HD.
I hope it comes quickly though. I have a shoot down in Guatemala on June 4th that I would need a monitor for.
Here's hoping!

if you selected something like two-day shipping, you should be good to go. You're in Canada, so it could take a little longer - you may want to speak with Dale about this and see if you need to upgrade shipping or something.

Enjoy!

Yeah, I fired him off an email. Hopefully he'll have time to read it as I'm sure he's getting a ton right now.

I ordered at 12:35 PM or so EST

1 black monitor
1 battery
1 sunhood
1 battery holder

I figured I'd punt on the bracket and an additional battery until I figure out my needs, etc

Order 283865, IIRC

I think we must guess that these order numbers might not be smallHD's but serial across all merchant/clients of the checkout intermediary.

I hope SmallHD makes a success of this and sends me a dandy monitor. I am very new at film making, and my friend and I have repeatedly made gross mistakes in scene composition simply because we can't both see what is going on when everyone is in position. This should help, in addition to making focusing easier.

tone

Order 283865, IIRC



UHHHH CRAZYYYY!!!!


at least 865 pieces SOLD LCD on one day!

(my Order # is: 283203)


THIS IS DALE'S NEW DEAL :)