(face red as a tomato, taking a deep and much needed breath)

"No! I don't know what you're talking about?"

(falling flat on the floor due to a prolonged lack of oxygen)

"It's okay! I'm fine. You don't have to scrap me off the floor."


lol

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Jason : Anyone seen this page?

http://www.expandore.com/product/Canon/Canon-XL2.htm

You have to highlight the whole page to see the specs. -->>>

yeah.. they are trying to get good google ratings by saying XL2 XL2 all over the place in white.. funny though that GOOGLE will dock you points for trying that crap.

I know thats not where I will be buying my XL2 after looking at that.

Here's hoping they get rid of the horribly cumbersome form factor of the xl1s. Ugly and hard to wield. Good time to come up with a new slate.

I think the next two months will see a lot of new models.

I thought the look of the XL1 was the only reason people kept buying them lol.. I think they looked pretty cool personally.

Thought some folks might be interested in this short thread on 'Pechorin's audio and video equipment discussion forum':

http://www.pechorin.com/m/2004/06/29/XL2_Release-215143.html

Michael,

I'm not positive but I think that's the same guy tried to sell me some swampland here in Florida.

He sounded most sincere then too... --{G}--

Sold me some great land in Florida too.. But I think Aliens attacked my house because all of a sudden my house disappeared and they turned my lot into a big puddle.

Hee hee .. I hope it is your guy fellahs - I'd hate to see Frederic having to hold his breath another two weeks! :-)

Last time I looked Flag Day was June 14, not July 14.

I went to canondv.com to see if they extended the rebate and I couldn't find the rebate coupons ,so it finally ended.

Michael,

That guy is saying "They had no idea who I was so I just lurked around the hotel and even happen to get a copy of an agenda with notes, on their company letterhead...." What do you want to bet that, no matter how much this guy is offered, he won't scan those notes and upload 'em to the web. Why? Because they don't exist! He's just blowing smoke.

Nah, I wouldn't bet much Chris. The mind plays tricks when you WANT something to be ...

I for one, want a native 16:9 25p with interchangeable lenses and I want it now! I have a DVD project that starts now and will take me through to the end of the year but I don't think my trusty XL1s will supply the best image possible to my client. I am so tempted to go over to DVX land, but with a new XL just around the corner, it's torture! :-{

Michael

Go ahead and buy the DVX. You won't be disappointed; it's a terrific camera. If you have something to shoot now, then *now* is always the best time to buy. Let's assume that Canon does announce an XL1S replacement... when do you think they'll actually start to *ship* that product? (Check your history, folks.) I would not wait if I were you.

Thank you for your wise words, Chris. I will report.

"when do you think they'll actually start to *ship* that product? (Check your history, folks.)"

When do you think they'll start to ship that product, Chris?
:)

Can anyone here refresh us on history?
Or could you at least point us in the right direction Chris?

I seem to remember a lag of a few weeks between the XL1 rebate and the XL1s announcement, and then only a few months between the announcement and the release, but it may have been as much as 6 months.

Can't really remember.

-Luis

If I remember well, The XL1s have been announced in the middle of July 2001 and it was available somewhere in september.

The intervals of time between a former product's rebate expiration date -- new product announcement -- and new product shipping date has been consistent with Canon USA throughout the XL1, GL1 and other DV camcorder product life cycles. Who can correctly recall what those intervals are?

Well, interesting about the myserious "invisible ink" message on the product page, but it didn't give any real info on the video specs save for "625 lines" . . . nothing about color separation or video bit rate . . . so who cares?

<<I agree about the 16x standard (white) lens, I sold mine last year and have never missed. Baffling piece of gear. Love my 14x manual though.>>

Got to agree with Charles on the 14x. I've been shooting a good deal of the Olympic documentary we're producing...typical outdoor sports challenges, and covering everything with the XL1s, 14x and a couple of ND filters and a polarizer.

It's such a treat to go from shooting with the mini35 prime lenses to a single lens system that gets you most everywhere. I also agree that it would be nice to have the extra coverage on the wide end, but it's amazing glass for under $1k.

FWW, the 14x footage looks like it's going to mix well with the staged and interiew footage that's all being shot with the P&S.

Even as it's phased out, the XL1s is a pretty amazing little creative tool.

Oh, and I restate my original prediction from a few months ago that actually inspired the creation of Area 51 (at least I contributed something here):

SD
16:9
24p
improved 1/3" chip set

Jim I agree with youThe footage I shot with the 14x lens (zoomed in a bit)looked remarkably similar to that of the p&s with nikon primes. The only difference being the light ad the grain both of which would be minimal in a more controlled enviornment.

I don't know if swampland guy is telling the truth but I can't say that his info sounds too far fetched. I wish there would have been a little more to it then 24p and the release dates (which many of us have guessed similarly to over the past 4 months-or at least since NAB) I think Jean Phillipe is probably right on the ball. (I'll hold my breath ON july 14th though)

Its July 1st in most of the world and its almost July 2nd in Japan. Still no breaking news? How can this be? I guess I shouldn't have expected it to be like watching the ball come down in New York, or staying up till Midnight to be the first one to see Lord of the Rings.

Justin: as explained time and time again NOTHING IS SURE until
Canon decides to announce something. It is as easy as that.
Everything else is complete speculation or just bogus and you
should treat it as such.

Yes, the rebate expiring is a good indication. BUT, as has been
said time and time again in this thread the announcement for
the XL1S happened *mid* July, two weeks after the rebate
expired.

So if (and that IS a big if!) something would happen shortly your
best bet is in two weeks give or take a week.

Now please don't take my word as fact (because it isn't, I know
as much as the rest does) and for all I know there could be no
replacement at all or if there is one it might be announced in
time for Christmas.

WHO KNOWS.

Don't get hung up by any dates. Yes, a film studio will announce
the exact date of a movie months and months in advance. Canon
doesn't with its camera's so stop expecting an announcement
when people are just speculating about it!

<< Its July 1st in most of the world and its almost July 2nd in Japan. Still no breaking news? >>

Justin, you haven't been reading my posts, or you would have known better than to feel this way.

Once again: you have to study Canon's history, because by studying history you can predict the future. And Canon's history clearly states that in the past they have *never* announced a major new product the very next day after a former one expires.

History also clearly states that for a flagship product of the XL1 caliber, announcements are always made at major industry events such as, say, a trade show. Was there a major industry event yesterday or today? No? What major industry event is about to happen, then? I wonder if an announcement will be made at that show.

It's no secret that these manufacturers tend to operate by a very predictable pattern, and if you look at their past as we've been discussing here, it helps you to see that the future is quite clear. You can put two and two together. Hope this helps,

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : What major industry event is about to happen, then? I wonder if Canon will make an announcement at that show. -->>>

Due to my lack of knowledge of the answer, what major industry event is about to happen?

Hmm, what could that be. Anybody?

I have no idea... (http://www.dvexpo.com/east/) (but I bet you can find it if you read carefully through this thread)

Hi Rob and Chris,

It's not exactly worth it to read through 12 pages to get the simple answer. I'm not on the edge of my seat waiting to hear an announcement on the XL1s upgrade.

Putting that aside, I don't even have a camera yet; not the best candidate to recite upcoming conferences.

Go easy on the new guys, eh?

Steve

one of the things some new guys don't know is that if its underlined...you can click on it...and like rob says...he has no idea.

barry

Hey Barry,

No, I knew that much. Not new to web design, or vBulletin for that matter.

Thank you though.

Hey everybody! Did you know that John Waters the "Icon of Pop Culture" is scheduled to make the keynote speech on July 14th between 1pm and 2pm in Room 1E19 at the Digital Video Expo East?

To view the pdf of the conference guide click on this link: Digital Video Expo East 2004 (http://img.cmpnet.com/dvexpo/east/conference_guide_east04.pdf).

The Conference & Expo will run from July 12th to July 16th in the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York City...

Platinum Sponsors for this event include Adobe, Canon and Sony...

Hope to see you all there...

== Ed ==

Now, I haven't had a chance to visit much lately, but when I saw this thread and another suggesting people visit the Canon history site and look for historic trends in annoucemnets of major technology, it was fairly clear to me what was likely to happen.

Of course this is just my interpretation of Chris' input. He has to walk a fine line and he has.

There may or may not be an XL1s replacement announced at DV Expo. You didn't hear it here, but you can certainly glean enough from these discussions to make an informed guess on your own, which is all you can really do.

Of course, like last year when I was supposed to be on a Canon round table discussion of digital film making, I have to bow out of the DV Expo again this year due to shooting conflicts. The shame is I'll be shooting a project at Yankee stadium.

Hey Jim,

You'll be in NYC? I too will be in the Canon booth with Monsieur Hurd during the day. Sounds like you will be a busy guy, but perhaps you could find enough time one night to get together for a round and say hello?

Lemme know,

- don

Hey Don....I was really hoping to be at DV this year, specifically to meet up with you and Chris and some others. Unfortunatley there's a lot of critical deadline junk going on and we're under construuction of the new studios and facilities at the farm (we've sold the downtown building and everything is moving to a new private 200 acre post and beam facilty with soundstage, recording, design and media studios).

It'a a drag missing the Expo because it's so close, and I never get to go to the fun shows...maybe I need to get affiliated with Canon like you two and then I could make it a nescessity...I'd like to be there for the announcement they're not going to make <g>.

Sorry we're going to miss you there, Jim... would've been great to see you...

<< He has to walk a fine line >>

As I write this, I've got a live version of "Tightrope" by Stevie Ray Vaughn blastin' on the system.

Expecting a knock on the door from the lawyers any minute...

;-)

The new cam will be much better, of course. The question is, is it HDV? Or (miracle of miracles) an even less-compressed version of HD?

But I'm also thinking a 4995 or higher price tag.

Also I think Sony and Panny are warming up in the bullpen.

"I've got a live version of "Tightrope" by Stevie Ray Vaughn blastin' on the system"

Not only fitting...but a great choice.
Glad to see it's not just cameras that you have good taste in Chris!
:)

-Luis

Looks like Amazon.com is selling the XL1s for $3500. Could be a sign. Like Chris says, look at history.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005NKXS/qid=1088732515/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1_etk-electronics/102-8080454-0064154?v=glance&s=photo&n=172282

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Broadway : Looks like Amazon.com is selling the XL1s for $3500. -->>>

Daniel,

I paid $3,039 (net) for my brand new XL1S when I bought mine a month and a half ago from B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/?BI=155) (a forum sponsor).

If the price continues to rise it just makes me feel even better about deciding to buy when I did, rather than wait six months or so???

Maybe THAT'S a sign too??? ;o)

== Ed ==

Oh, I see Ed. I was under the assumtion that the XL1s retailed for $4000. However, I never really did any research. I should be ashamed. Ha ha.

. . . wait, I don't get it, I . . . .

HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!

Well, I got it! Literally... ;o)

Anyone who is willing to wait for the "new" XL will surely be thrilled when they do actually get it... But after much thought, I decided to take advantage of the $500 rebate and buy my XL1S before the rebate expired (as of 2-days ago).

One of the main reasons for my decision to buy my XL1S 45-days ago --- in light of the widespread speculation about a wondrous, NEW model "soon to be released"--- was Chris Hurd's sage advice: " If you have something to shoot now, then *now* is always the best time to buy."

That plus his observation that historically there has been a considerable time lag between the announcements of new models and actual availability...

However, perhaps the most compelling reason for my decision was the price that I paid for my XL1S after the $500 rebate (almost $1,700 less than the MSRP of $4700).

Finally, I took into consideration that it is likely that the new, improved Canon XL model will cost considerably more.

Having said that, I am hopeful that after the next generation of the Canon XL is released --- it will be possible for me to use it along with my XL1S --- sharing accessories etc. But, I'll just have to wait and see about that...

In the meantime, I'm capturing great video NOW, and not waiting with bated breath. {grin}

== Ed ==

Very smart, Ed -- that was definitely the right thing to do! Of course you can always "change up" later on. This is a fairly heartburn-free process if you save all of the original boxes and packing material, etc. for your cameras. When it comes time to sell or auction your cameras, they will always bring a better price if you have the original packaging and have taken excellent care of your gear. A gently-used XL1S will hold its value well, because once a replacement for it eventually starts to ship, there will be a whole crop of prospective used-camera buyers counting on folks like you to upgrade, so they can pick up an XL1S. It's a trickle-down theory and it really works.

Agreed. Now is definitely the best time to pick up a new XL1S with a two (2) year Parts & Labor warranty at the most affordable price ever.

- don

Of course, if you are buying NOW then you should have gotten a dvx100a.

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : Of course, if you are buying NOW then you should have gotten a dvx100a. -->>>

True enough.. there is no real reason to buy the XL1s anymore, sure you can change lenses but the CCDS are getting really old.. almost 20% less than a DVX.

I guess price is a factor, 500 bucks less makes a big difference.

>>>>>>>>True enough.. there is no real reason to buy the XL1s anymore, sure you can change lenses but the CCDS are getting really old.. almost 20% less than a DVX.

Respectfully, having solid experience with both the XL1S and the DVX100 and DVX100a - I will say that both are excellent cameras. The Xl1S is still a very viable solution for those who have a need for the many lens options that the XL mount provides. Such as nature and wildlife videographers who have a need for *affordable* extreme telephoto lenses with optical Image Stabilization that the DVX100 series does not provide, due to the fixed 10X lens. A good friend of mine, Art Smith, a seasoned wildlife cinematographer who is currently relying on the XL platform to obtain spectacular close-up wildlife footage is one example. Look for the July issue of Government Video Magazine for a cover story on Art Smith and how he is utilizing his XL1S in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve in Alaska. I have already seen some of the images he is creating and they are truly beautiful. Also, a great deal of other professionals with various applications are currently relying on the XL platform in the here and now.

Yes, the DVX100a is a solid solution for some, no doubt. But the XL platform is also a solid solution and is still to this day being widely used by many, many professionals for it's own unique feature set.

Just wanted to make a friendly observation.

Best regards,

- don

Indeed, just to second Don's remarks (as an owner of the XL1S, DVX100, and DVX100A...and previous owner of the XL1) the DVX is arguably the best camera in its price class for certain categories of applications, particularly dramatic work. But it is useless for wildlife photography and kindred applications with long-lens or interchangeable lens requirements. The XL1S remains the most peerlessly versatile camera within its price bracket. It can still do it all. I certainly have no immediate plans to sell mine!

Wow, anticipation for the XL2 is killing me. I can't believe NO ONE on the internet could leak information about the XL2. I have searched and googled for over two hours. No one has a picture, a drawing, or ANYTHING of it. Canon is very tight lipped. I really wish they gave sneak peeks of their products.

"I really wish they gave sneak peeks of their products.

It's a double edged sword.
At least with Canon we know that as soon as an announcement is made, a shipping date will probably be announced as well.

If they had already leaked the details on a new camera, we'd all be sitting around complaining about the lack of a shipping date.

I kind of like the way Canon does things. You may not know exactly where they are headed all the time, but you know what you're getting, and when.

While Panasonic is showing off balsa wood prototypes of things that might be available in 2006, and Sony is showing off plastic shell prototypes of cameras that should be available sometime next year, Canon will only show off the camera when it is good and ready to be shown. And, the camera they show off is the camera you will be able to buy (at least, that's how it has always worked in the past with them.) And, I should add, wiht Canon, when they show off a new camera, it will be shipping not too long after that (not in 2005, or 2006 like some other companies).

So, yeah, it woudl be nice to know.
But keep in mind that just because other manufacturers are blabbing about what they are going to do.... nothing says that Panasonic or Sony are definitely releasing cameras exactly like the prototypes they showed off.

-Luis

yes indeed.. I wont start the post where you can put a 2x extender on the DVX and have an optically stabilized 800mm lens for far cheaper than any optically stabilized add on lens for the XL1, that debate could go on for hours. I am obviously a little biased towards the DVX, I run a large community focused on it. But If the XL2 is a better camera, i'll be one of the first ones in line to buy it.

True though, for wildlife and other video work the xl1 is a true workhorse, and the XL1 may be better suited. The DVX is more of a filmakers camera, and Im sure the XL2 if it addresses some of the DVX features the XL2 will take the reign as #1 again. Thats the wonders of this pro-sumer industry, it changes almost bi-annually.


and as for the prototypes.. the DVX kinda came in as a surprise as well, and that balsa thing is definately a consumer based product.. its not a DVX replacement and never intended to be.

Im not sure if I like canon's idea of keeping in the dark, I can tell you at least 800 people that jumped off the Canon camp and switched to the DVX just because there was no clue if the XL2 was coming around the corner or not. If they gave some sort of clue or timeframe, Im sure alot of XL1 users would sit by and wait.