I'm assuming this new "flash band fix" in Clip Browser version 2.6 is for addressing rolling shutter issues?

Nice review from resident expert Alister Chapman, very informative.

Part of me would like the new EX1, but not really. My 1 still has low hours, and is still pristine. The 350 looks sexy, too big for my needs.

The thing I keep thinking is that if this were Jannard & RED, they'd be offering a full refund on the EX1 with the R & 350 upgrade. But no, we're dealing with Sony and expected to shelf a camera and pay full shot for a new model. How very Apple of them, only this is a $6500 bit of kit rather than a $199 iPod.

Sure I'm a tiny bit envious of some refined ergonomics, buttons and HDMI that should have been in the original, but I'll pocket my money until the Scarlett is released.

VCT-SP2BP Camcorder Support is a nice addition

Release date of the PMW-350 is january 2010. The PMW-EX1R is earlier. December 2009.

I was lucky enough to use the 350 when Alister had the unit, we used it on an airshow shoot, similar to many others that I've done before using pretty most of the Sony HD Cameras in the past like the 790, 750 and 700. I have to say this camera impressed me more than the others - Why?

Form factor - it's a nice looking camera, it's very lightweight but very well balanced. We mostly use a 700 at the moment and it's VERY heavy to carry around all day, no such issues with the 350 though, It felt very good on the shoulder.

The Viewfinder - we currently use a colour C35W viewfinder on our 700, I actually prefer the viewfinder on the 350. I think once they see it 700 and 800 owners may be pestering Sony to release it to buy separately.

The lens - amazing! no breathing at all, couldn't see any CA at all, I'll be very interested to see how it tests out when people get hold of it.

The pictures - sharp, clean , rich colours. It seemed to handle the extreme contrast of shooting aircraft in the sky better than any of the other cameras I've used.

I'd agree with Alister it's probably got a stop on the 700 and maybe a little more.

If you don't need the disc workflow and you can afford a Nano Flash as well, then for me I'd take the 350 over the 700 and even the 800!

The thing I keep thinking is that if this were Jannard & RED, they'd be offering a full refund on the EX1 with the R & 350 upgrade. But no, we're dealing with Sony and expected to shelf a camera and pay full shot for a new model.


If this were Jannard and Red, they would be announcing the camera today, saying that it will be ready at some point in the future, and that the specs are subject to change.

This is an incremental upgrade to a camera that's been on the market for two years- not sure how you could expect a refund on the camera you already own. There's no reason to shelf your EX1, and I doubt many people will.

I completely agree with the above post: yes, the EX1-R has some nice additional features, but it has the same sensors/lens/codec, etc. You do not need to lament buying the older model. There is no job the "R" model can do that the old model can't, except maybe image flip and even then most new 35mm adapters have workarounds that don't require them anyway.

Yes it records a cleaner SD video, and that occasionally still comes up, but who is going to upgrade cameras to get SD recording in this day and age?

Now if the new "R" had 50 mgbit recording or an SDHC card slot for directly recording to, I'd be mad...

I believe the street price of the new SxS-1 32gb card will be in the region of £300. UK dealers have been given the pricing so should be able to give you a quote.
The Pmw-350 should be available from mid January. Apparently the lens we had for testing did not meet the final specifications and there is a new lens for me to look at when I get a chance.

Yes it records a cleaner SD video, and that occasionally still comes up, but who is going to upgrade cameras to get SD recording in this day and age?


Indeed. I've not been missing SD shooting at all despite the fact most of my delivery is SD.

In fact I was just admiring how good my latest production looked downconverted to SD played from DVD on a 37" screen.

The only advantage of SD shooting is if you are in an environment where your workflow dictates it and there is no time for conversion, eg local news.

The EX1R addresses a number of issues, but its rather like Apples recent Iphone upgrade. Lots of fairly cool features but nothing killer that makes me want to buy one.

The biggest thing for us EX1 users is the advent of the cheaper SxS media. As I understand it the cards have a limited life, but would still be good for filling up every day for 5 years! Since most of us don't fill up our cards 365 days a year the reality is the cards we buy will probably outlast the format!

Pretty exciting, now if we can just find out how much $?

Gary,

I was in a meeting with Sony last week. They told us the kit with lens is right at $20k and $18.5K without.


Something else that hasn't gotten much mention yet... the new 350 has TWO viewfinder ports. One supports the new style included viewfinder and the other supports the older monochrome CRT finders.

-gb-

No update to the EX3, interesting.

Personally the EX3 never made a lot of sense to me. The ability to change lenses was an option exercised by very few, this makes more sense with a camera at the 350's pricepoint. On the downside the ergonomics of the EX3 never sat right with me, those buttons on the back of the viewfinder were a pain to use.

As a long time EX1 owner the upgrade is great. There's nothing in it that saddens me about my original purchase. Those that don't really need the new features should be able to buy the original EX1 from those that do want to upgrade at a sensible discount as well. If the market behaves sensibly it's should be a win/win for everyone.

glad I have the EX3... no update because it was a very updated concept from the original EX1 ... many of the EX1r updates are already on the EX3... just the ergonomics, excelent viewfinder, s/q button AND for me the use of my AB dionic battery on its back, makes it the best choice for me .... and 10K more for the 350 maybe it-s too much right now... by the way... WHY is the 350 SO BIG .... it is a tapeless and diskless camera.... WHY the same old BIG FORM FACTOR from the past ... I was expecting something more different, maybe JVC 110/700 style..... well, I have to test it maybe closer...

kind regards

As far as I know there are no plans to change or replace the EX3.

I was wondering about the EX3. Slightly strange that it didn't get a similar upgrade to the EX1 at the same time. As it is it leaves it with some advantages over the new EX1R, but in other ways it's at a disadvantage. (Cache record, no native SD etc etc)

The more I look, the more I come across. "Copy all clips" mode, for instance. This now makes it feasible to shoot on SxS, then dump to SDHC in camera for a medium term backup for an extra degree of safety (or as a copy to give to a third party).

And has anyone commented on the PMW-350 power consumption? 15 watts, 18 watts whilst recording. That's astonishingly good!! A lot lower than the HPX301, in spite of the 2/3" chips. With an 11watt LED headlight that's only 29watts recording with a light on.

And the radio mic receiver slot. Will take the old style OR the new Sony digital receivers.

Is it going to be easier to obtain a smooth, shakeless camera holding from an EX1R with optical image stabilization, or from a large format PMW350 properly balanced on the shoulder?

SD is an option that will be available from launch.

Hi Alister,
SD is something that I have had great issues with on the EX3. The quality from the down convertor is absolute rubbish. I purchased a NanoFlash recorder to give me a better quality SD image from the EX3. How would you compare the quality of the PMW30 SD DVCAM to that of the NanoFlash recorded from the EX3 via SDI?
Has Sony rectified the IR contamination issue of the EX1 &EX3 with the release PMW30 & EX1R ?

Is it going to be easier to obtain a smooth, shakeless camera holding from an EX1R with optical image stabilization, or from a large format PMW350 properly balanced on the shoulder?

Shoulder mount cameras win hands down. Not only is the weight transferred directly to your skeleton the mass is balanced. Plus the camera comes with a power tap for a light and mounting a wireless mic receiver is a piece of cake.

"Greens on the EX1/3 seem to look mushy, not quite as clean as the 700."

Alister, is this during your comparison of native footage from the EX1 and the 350/700? Does the Nanoflash improve the EX1 in that respect ?

I noticed the audio is listed as 16bit for the PMW-350.

I wonder if using a Nanoflash, if the audio signal would be uncompressed out of the HDSDI to get true 24bit recording?

Thanks

Oh yes, you bet it is 24 bit. Damn fine recorder too!!! Love it.
Cheers

Thanks for your reply.

Just to clarify, if the same event was recorded via SxS and a Nanoflash simultaneously, the Nanoflash audio would sound better?

As it is true 24bit out of the HDSDI?

The Nano audio would not be 16bit audio recorded at 24bit?

Gints: The NanoFlash makes no difference to the mushy greens. I beleive it is down to the sensor or optics. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for perfection here. The EX1 and EX3 pictures are still very good in my book, it's just the PDW-700 and PMW-350 are better.

Guess I will never be satisfied. The 350 certainly is a great camera - sadly it miss overcranking - the PMW-EX1R update with a buttom that switches the hole camera over to the prefered system setting, when overcranking, is great. I would have loved the 350 camera in DVCam with 300 fps. - or still just 720- 60P variable. Still the PMW-350 will be my next camera, but it will not outdate the PMW-EX3 - yet.

SD is something that I have had great issues with on the EX3. The quality from the down convertor is absolute rubbish.

Then I'd say you shouldn't get too excited about the EX1-R's DVCAM mode. The chips are full raster so the down-conversion has to happen somewhere - either from the card to the computer or from the chips to the card.

It's the latter that the EX1-R will be doing in DVCAM mode, and the cheap 'n' cheerful in-built down-converter won't be a match for far more expensive, power hungry and physically bigger and heavier NLE solutions.

tom.

EX1R frame grabs:
XDCAM-USER.com • View topic - PMW-EX1R HD/SD Frame Grabs (http://www.xdcam-user.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=437)

and a PMW-350 Grab
XDCAM-USER.com • View topic - PMW-350 Frame grabs (http://www.xdcam-user.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=438)

I'll try to add more when I get decent internet access.

Thanks Tom.

Alister,

Did you get to check the PMW-350 for IR contamination?

Question to Alistair or anyone. Can a SDHC Expresscard adapter (such as those supplied by Hoodman RAW SxSxSDHC Memory Adapter-Hoodman Corporation (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1063) ) work with the PMW-350? I gather they work in EX1/3 hardware but you lose some recording functionality?

I shoot news in the UK with a DSR-450 and the PMW-350 is an open door to walk through into the crossover world between SD and HD for me. The VJ's are shooting on Z-5's and I do minicam stuff with a JVC HM100 so I'm into the tapeless workflow - but I'm not letting a reporter walk off with SxS cards until they're the same price as SDHC....

TIA,

Cotty

One of the improvements of the EX1R is the "copy all clips" new mode. So it becomes feasible to shoot on SxS, then use the camera to dump the entire contents to the card in the second slot - which can obviously be SDHC. I'm assuming it does a verification as it does it?

Can Alister say whether such a mode exists with the 350. (I sincerely hope it does! :-) )

Gints: The NanoFlash makes no difference to the mushy greens. I beleive it is down to the sensor or optics. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for perfection here. The EX1 and EX3 pictures are still very good in my book, it's just the PDW-700 and PMW-350 are better.Can you share your thoughts on F900R versus PMW-350, if given the same lens is used on both - in our case a Canon HJ22ex7.6B ?

Are there any chances that Sony eliminated the audio limiters in EX1R which are existing (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/145931-drop-loud-audio-levels-does-ex1-have-forced-audio-limiter-manual-mode.html) even in manual audio mode? Although I am somehow satisfied with different settings in the audio menus maybe there is deeper sound possible with EX1R...

Argh.. Just found out that the PMW-350 has overcranking upto 720-60p. Could not see that in the first material I read.

The new 350 shoulder mount camera seems awesome. It's too bad that the price is so high. I don't think news operations are going to jump at these when you can buy the Panasonic 300 for $8,000. Too bad, we really wanted a competitive price on a new Sony camera.

Price seems quite reasonable to me (relatively speaking of course).
A few years back the standard price for an HD camera (like the F900 and Varicam) was about £70k if memory serves. And after a couple of years they came down a lot to around the £40k mark.
So now to have Varicams and PDW700s for around £20k seems much more feasible for an owner-operator. And these lower-priced cameras like the 350 open up the possibilities even more. Just a shame the lenses are so damned expensive - especially considering how mediocre most of them are.
Steve

I don't think news operations are going to jump at these when you can buy the Panasonic 300 for $8,000.
But it offers a lot more than the 300 does for the extra price. And remember that for a news operation you're likely to need more cards than for a self contained operation - shoot, hand to reporter to take away, shoot more, then get back the first cards later. Small cheap cards become far more important than large capacity ones.

And now it's more formally approved, the adaptor/Memory Stick route may get taken up by those who baulked at SDHC. Memory cost savings may go a long way towards offsetting the difference in capital costs.

And being 1/3", the lens options for the 300 are vastly more limited than for a 2/3" camera. Do any 1/3" lenses even have a doubler? And max wide angle? It's this sort of thing that may be crucial factors to many news organisations. Chips of 2/3" also increases sensitivity compared to 1/3" - should be 2 stops if all else is equal, and since these are the latest backlit, I'd expect the Sony camera to have more like a 3 stop advantage.

Then power consumption. News cameras frequently have accessories such as radio mic receivers, headlights, radio cam transmitters and that can mean a lot of power. The Sony camera is quoted as no less than about 6-8 watts more frugal! That's a big difference.

When 2/3" meant PDW700 prices the 300 did look attractive, but the price gap to this new camera is far less now.

The new 350 shoulder mount camera seems awesome. It's too bad that the price is so high. I don't think news operations are going to jump at these when you can buy the Panasonic 300 for $8,000. Too bad, we really wanted a competitive price on a new Sony camera.

Mike all due respect, but we are talking about a full raster, 2/3" chip HD camera here for under $20,000. It's a great price

The competitive priced sony cameras are $6,000 & $8,000 :)

Seriously, slap on a $2900 Nano Flash on the PMW-350 and you will be recording images that will be for the most part useable for just about any type of production.

The new 350 shoulder mount camera seems awesome. It's too bad that the price is so high. I don't think news operations are going to jump at these when you can buy the Panasonic 300 for $8,000. Too bad, we really wanted a competitive price on a new Sony camera.

Take a look at the current market offerings, I don't think you will find something that comes even close in price. The 350 has a 2/3" sensor rated at F12 sensitivity, not a 1/3". In term of cinematic abilities, it is like night and day. Also, the PMW has a much nicer color viewfinder and the many avantages of SxS cards over P2 storage. But I have to admit, the Pany 300 looks more sexy than the PMW-350...

Take a look at the current market offerings, I don't think you will find something that comes even close in price. The 350 has a 2/3" sensor rated at F12 sensitivity, not a 1/3". In term of photographic abilities, it is like night and day. Also, the PMW has a much nicer color viewfinder and the many avantages of SxS cards over P2 storage. But I have to admit, the Pany 300 looks more sexy than the PMW-350...

BH Photo video offers 2/3" HPX500 at less than $10k. hows that for competitive?

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As good as the HPX-500 looks on paper, its CCD is really limited to 720HD resolution and the DVCPro HD P2 file system is quite outdated. It's a slower, noiser and heavier camera but I agree, for 10K, it is not too bad of a deal. Just currious, why is Panasonic putting all its P2 cameras on sale at 50% off including their flagship Varicam models?

Thierry.

Add an HD lens to the HPX500 and you're getting close to the 350 kit price too.
Steve

I don't know if SDHC adapters will work with the new cams. I see no reason why they won't, but why now go that route when you have a tested and approved option via the new sony memory stick adapter?

The very brief test I did with an F900R on the bench and the comparison tests I did with my PDW-700 suggest the 350 is offering pictures that are on a par with these cameras. The 350 has less noise than F900R and PDW-700, similar resolution and is more sensitive.

Didn't check for IR, but Sony did state that the optical filters have improved IR cutoff.

The 350 has less noise than F900R and PDW-700

Less!? I think Sony have finally figured out how to go less than nothing!

I don't know if SDHC adapters will work with the new cams. I see no reason why they won't, but why now go that route when you have a tested and approved option via the new sony memory stick adapter?


because memory sticks still cost more than SD. The fast one's a fair bit more.

Ex1r priced in Japan - 714,000 yen available december.


http://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/proshop/xdcamex.html

the current model ex1 is going for 610,000 yen with 2 X 8GB and 1 X 16GB SxS cards.

translated:
Sale schedule in December
EX1 equipped with 1/2 types three CMOS in a compact body that exceed the imagination evolves further.

Standard price \714,000 including tax

SONY MEAD-MS01
MEAD-MS01
Sale schedule in January
Memory Stick adaptor
It is possible to collect to Memory Stick PRO-HG duo HX by using this adaptor.

Standard price \14,700 including tax

I was one of the people that originally discovered that it was possible to use SDHC via an adapter with the EX3 and then EX1. Initially this excited me, but I soon discovered that it simply was not as robust as using SxS, for many reasons. The new Sony adapter eliminates many of the issues as it has better handshaking to prevent recording before the previous file has been closed. (you will need a firmware update to be able to use the Sony adapter).

So while SDHC is cheaper you have to consider what value you give your material and how reliable you need your workflow to be. Sony have now presented EX users with option that is guaranteed to work and built to Sony's high standards.

Add an HD lens to the HPX500 and you're getting close to the 350 kit price too.
Steve

Good point to consider, Steve. And if you take the lens out of the PMW-350, you get the body/vf/mic for $18.5K which is closer in price to the HPX500, but with additional native resolution.

-gb-

As good as the HPX-500 looks on paper, its CCD is really limited to 720HD resolution and the DVCPro HD P2 file system is quite outdated. It's a slower, noiser and heavier camera but I agree, for 10K, it is not too bad of a deal.
the Panasonic literature clearly states that it Records in DVCPRO HD 1080/60i, 50i, 30p, 25p and 24p; in 720/60p, 50p, 30p, 25p, and 24p; and in DVCPRO50, DVCPRO and DV. I guess they just had a mis-print.

DVCPro HD P2 file system is quite outdated. It's a slower, noiser and heavier camera but I agree, for 10K, it is not too bad of a deal.
I think that many people still favor the P2 system. The unit also weighs about the same as the sony @ 8.2 lbs for camera or 12 lbs with lens & IDX battery. It also shoots at 100Mbs. which I guess is sufficient for some of the nature TV channels etc.

Douglas,

With all due respect, the HPX500 only has 960x540 sensor resolution which they pixel shift in both directions to derive a pseudo 1080 output file. When placed side by side with a camera that records higher native resolution, the visual difference is obvious. This is what Thierry was referring to.

-gb-

The HPX-500 might record a DVCPRO HD 1080 file (1280x1080 @ 60i/30P 1440x1080 at 50i/25P), but the front end is using SD CCD's with pixel offsetting to get a 1280x720 image. Up-rezzing 720 to 1080 dosn't make it a 1080 camcorder in my book.

The DVCPRO codec is an old codec by todays standards and is somewhat dated. It isn't full raster in any of it's various flavors and it is not as efficient as Mpeg2. You also need to consider the fact that a 35Mbps codec needs a third of the recording media of a 100Mbps codec. 35Mbps data can be read from the storage medium 3 times faster than 100Mbps. This low bandwidth requirement also makes editing from USB drives easier.

Hi Alister,
You did said "Didn't check for IR, but Sony did state that the optical filters have improved IR cutoff.?". I was going to purchase my second EX3 but decided not to proceed unit Sony found a fix with the IR issue. Would you be in a position to find out and lets us know what Sony have done to improved the IR cutoff or is it still an issue but to a lesser degree.
Many Thanks

As far as I know there are no changes to the EX3 and I assume that must also include the filters. So for an EX3 you would want the new Tiffen T1 IR.