Although I find the F3's viewfinder quality to be adequate, I'd have gladly paid a couple thousand more dollars for the F3 just to have a connector that would allow me to mount the C35W viewfinder from my F800. What a terrific camera that would be!!

Mike, I'm sure we'll see several 3rd party viewfinder solutions that will basically transform the F3's flip-out LCD into an EX3-style viewfinder. I will be first in line to buy one. I already tried the Hoodman Loupe that I use on my EX1 but it's too short to accomodate a comfortable shooting position. We need something with a rigid extension tube that is several inches long -- just like the EX3 viewfinder.

With all the amazing advances in recent years, ergonomics seem to have been forgotten. The Aaton LTR/XTR S16 cameras hardly ever need anything bolted to them, they just work properly as designed. The latest handycams seem to have outgrown the limits of their PD150 ancestors and the manufactures haven't noticed or bothered to go back to the drawing board.
I'll agree with all that 100% - with the exception of JVC. In pure ergonomic terms, their recent offerings have shown you can have a camera of this size/weight which can be comfortably used on the shouder without compromising use in other ways.
Mike, I'm sure we'll see several 3rd party viewfinder solutions that will basically transform the F3's flip-out LCD into an EX3-style viewfinder.
Maybe, but the real problem is that the viewfinder needs to be much further forward. Then it becomes possible to have more of the weight of the camera further back and out of the way beside the head. It's not just a weight and balance issue - in confined spaces, having to have the entire length of the camera in front of the cameraman would become a real pain, which no amount of third party solutions will be able to solve.

I don't agree, I found it very easy to hold using the top handle for low shots and handycam style for many other shots. If you use the Sony lightweight PL's or a DSLR lens the weight is not a problem.

You can still shoot this way with a JVC. Quite a few people will be using the camera with much heaver lenses like the Cookes and Master Primes.

Ron,

The F3 viewfinder is adequate to check focus especially if you are using the peaking function. It is no that good for checking color and for this, the built-in LCD is very good. My understanding is that the F3 viewfinder is identical to the EX1R (not EX1...) and during the bit of hands on I have had with the F3, the viewfinder felts indeed like the EX1R's.

Thierry.
Thank you and all others for their helpful replies.

Maybe, but the real problem is that the viewfinder needs to be much further forward. Then it becomes possible to have more of the weight of the camera further back and out of the way beside the head. It's not just a weight and balance issue - in confined spaces, having to have the entire length of the camera in front of the cameraman would become a real pain, which no amount of third party solutions will be able to solve.

I disagree. There will be 3rd party solutions that will work.
I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm NOT talking about using the viewfinder that is at the rear of the camera. I'm talking about adding a 3rd party device to the flip-out LCD so that it functions like the viewfinder on an EX3. That LCD is already forward on the camera, and the addition of an optical tube-style viewfinder to the LCD should put it pretty close to the right position with the addition of a short shoulder brace or shoulder rest. Same as the EX3. The F3 should have been designed like the EX3 and I wouldn't be surprised if that body style was just around the corner. Just look at the history of the EX1 and then the EX3. There's going to be a lot of pissed off F3 owners if Sony announces another camera soon after the buy their F3. But it should come as no surprise and I'll have no sympathy when they start crabbing that they bought the wrong camera. There's always going to be something new around the corner.

To work well, the display device needs to be further forward than the LCD on the side if the camera. I don't think it's a huge mechanical deal designing a mounting system that say also allows 15mm rods & handle below the camera and a V/F (or LCD) forward of the camera body, This would allow the camera to sit on your shoulder.

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm NOT talking about using the viewfinder that is at the rear of the camera. I'm talking about adding a 3rd party device to the flip-out LCD so that it functions like the viewfinder on an EX3.
No, that is what I understood. Just don't think it's still far enough forward. Fully agree when you say "should have been designed like the EX3".

I'm talking about adding a 3rd party device to the flip-out LCD so that it functions like the viewfinder on an EX3. That LCD is already forward on the camera, and the addition of an optical tube-style viewfinder to the LCD should put it pretty close to the right position with the addition of a short shoulder brace or shoulder rest. Same as the EX3.

Doug are you familiar with the Hoodman Loupe (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HEXKP) for the EX1? Should work out of the box on the F3. I am sure Olof will develop a rig and one can always slap on a set of rails with a shoulder pad and hang a batt or two over the shoulder. That's what I would do if I was going to be handbombing a fair amount but I expect it will be living either on a tripod or a Steadicam in my case.

The F3 should have been designed like the EX3 and I wouldn't be surprised if that body style was just around the corner. I have given up trying to figure out Sony on their industrial design and marketing ploys. Sometimes, most times, things just don't add up except for the rather broad strokes in which they decide where to place their cameras on their product shelf. I think they, for the most part get that right. But really, the viewfinder issue... WHY?! They produced the EX1, then came out with the EX3 to great acclaim. The most talked about (positive) thing on the EX3 was how good the viewfinder was and then they come out with the F3 which was greeted with a huge pile on from almost every shooter that looked at the promo shots when it was first announced. Do they not do focus group testing on their gear as it is being developed?

I still think it is a nice camera but I would either use a Hoodman Loupe or a Marshall

I don't agree, I found it very easy to hold using the top handle for low shots and handycam style for many other shots. If you use the Sony lightweight PL's or a DSLR lens the weight is not a problem.

Well you've held it, I haven't, so let's compromise - let me borrow yours. :)

I use the EX-1 with a hoodman and its a reasonably good solution though not always as solid as I would like. However I dislike the EX-3 because although the basic optical viewfinder works quite well , they changed the way the color peaking circuit works and it is far less accurate than it is on the EX-1. I rely on it on the EX-1 but on the EX-3 its nearly useless as its too gross an adjustment. That's a big deal to me.

Doug are you familiar with the Hoodman Loupe (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HEXKP) for the EX1? Should work out of the box on the F3.

Not only am I familiar with it, I mentioned in Post #51 above that I own one and that it does NOT work. It is too short for the F3.

Doug,

Not having seen an F3 yet I'm, having trouble understanding what you mean by the hoodman being "too short" for the F3.
Is it too short to use in a comfortable way with some kind of shoulder brace, or does the camera bang into your shoulder when you try to put your head to the eyepeice?

Or is it a different issue entirely that the hoodman doesn't cover the full screen of the F3 because its perhaps larger than the EX-1 screen?

Do you have any doubt that it would be easy for hoodman to come up with a solutiion?

Lenny Levy

Leonard,


It's been about six weeks since I tried my Hoodman Loupe on an F3, so it is difficult to remember the all the reasons why it didn't work, but the main problem is that the LCD on the F3 sits too low. Compare the design of the F3 to the EX1. Where is the LCD located? Notice that the LCD on an EX1 sits relatively high up on the camera, thus making it easy to rest the camera on your shoulder and still have the LCD/Loupe postioned right in front of your eye.

On the F3, the LCD is positioned much lower on the body. So if you put your eye up against the LCD/Loupe then you've got several inches of empty space between the bottom of the camera and your shoulder. Or, if you rest the camera on your shoulder, then it is almost impossible to look through the Loupe. I suppose you could add a several-inches thick shoulder pad to the F3 to raise it up higher, but then you will have raised the center of gravity too high and the camera would be very awkward to operate. Also, since the LCD doesn't extend very far from the camera body, you really have to crunch your head up agains the side of the camera to even see through the Loupe. Bottom line is that it's not something I would ever want to use.

To answer your other two questions:

Yes, the Hoodman Loupe does cover the LCD because it's the same LCD as on the EX1/EX1R.

Yes, I'm certain Hoodman, Zacuto, RedRock, and others will have many accessories that solve most of the F3's shortcomings.

Leonard,


It's been about six weeks since I tried my Hoodman Loupe on an F3, so it is difficult to remember the all the reasons why it didn't work, but the main problem is that the LCD on the F3 sits too low. Compare the design of the F3 to the EX1. Where is the LCD located? Notice that the LCD on an EX1 sits relatively high up on the camera, thus making it easy to rest the camera on your shoulder and still have the LCD/Loupe postioned right in front of your eye.

On the F3, the LCD is positioned much lower on the body. So if you put your eye up against the LCD/Loupe then you've got several inches of empty space between the bottom of the camera and your shoulder. Or, if you rest the camera on your shoulder, then it is almost impossible to look through the Loupe. I suppose you could add a several-inches thick shoulder pad to the F3 to raise it up higher, but then you will have raised the center of gravity too high and the camera would be very awkward to operate. Also, since the LCD doesn't extend very far from the camera body, you really have to crunch your head up agains the side of the camera to even see through the Loupe. Bottom line is that it's not something I would ever want to use.

To answer your other two questions:

Yes, the Hoodman Loupe does cover the LCD because it's the same LCD as on the EX1/EX1R.

Yes, I'm certain Hoodman, Zacuto, RedRock, and others will have many accessories that solve most of the F3's shortcomings.

Was thinking of taking my EX3 viewfinder down to a shop with the F3 on display and see how that worked.
Perhaps, tomorrow would be a good day for that.

Cineroid | Hot Rod Cameras (http://www.hotrodcameras.com/category/hd-viewfinders-monitors/cineroid/)

At least for framing, this seems like a good investment. You can position it anywhere you like with a Noga arm. Not the Highest resolution monitor ever made, but its an eye piece, and can go where ever you need to balance the camera.