Not sure if this does apply to the X70 but for the NX30U, FDR-AX1 and the NX5U that I have it is important that if only one XLR is used , say XLR Channel 1, then the channel 2 input should be set to line.

Hi Ron

Thanks. Certainly switching Ch2 to Line (and adding the 20dB attenuation) makes the hiss and crackle so inaudible as not to be a problem - but the issue occurs whether there's something plugged into one or both XLR inputs. So, even with a mic in each input, the noise occurs.

And the source, I've found after much testing, is definitely Ch2. The settings of Ch1 makes no difference but Ch2 is making the horrid noise that affects both channels, rather like listening to someone tuning in a Longwave radio at midnight...

I imagine I must have a broken handle unit, it is a Sony review sample after all and it's probably been through the mill with other testers (though I'd have hoped it would withstand the abuse)

Still no idea what the beeping is mind you, the testing continues...

Regards
David

Do you have some sort of audio of the beeping?

Ahem:

Sony PXW X70 audio beeping - YouTube

It stops as soon as I stop recording despite continuing to monitor on the headphones with no changes to the mics etc. Press record and it starts again.

Not sure if this does apply to the X70 but for the NX30U, FDR-AX1 and the NX5U that I have it is important that if only one XLR is used , say XLR Channel 1, then the channel 2 input should be set to line. The bad mic does not have to be handled , just touch anywhere on the camcorder. Mount off camera and it is fine.

Hi Ron

Crikey - I keep both the inputs on my PMW-200 to Mic+48 even with only one plugged in and no probs, so must be camera dependent.

Anyway, regarding the X70 I had mics in both inputs and it still happens. Neither was touching the camcorder itself.

I would honestly be delighted to be shown that I'm doing something stupid but I'm sure it shouldn't be like this esp when Ch1 is clean regardless

Here's a quick video to demonstrate:

x70 electronic noise off Ch 2 - YouTube

In my case the NX30U, a detachable units like the X70 ( of course could be the same unit repackaged) is worse than the AX1 or the NX5U but all have similar characteristics. Do the mics need the same gain trim in the menu ? Does altering the gain trim make any difference ?

Not sure how channel 2 causes this issue but I either have both inputs selected with mic on channel 1 ( channel 1 auto and 2 Manual gain with the XLR selection on channel 2 set to line no input) or with inputs mic on channel 1 and line on channel 2 ) and with this configuration there is no noise. Sort of makes having a mic input on channel 2 a little useless !!! But that is how I set up most of the time.

Ron Evans

David and Ron:

This thread is huge, so I apologize if you have already covered this. Have both of you done the firmware update?

David and Ron:

If the audio issue does not get resolved soon, will either of you regret purchasing this particular camcorder? I have a pressing interest in knowing.

Thanks!

Withh regards to David's first video above titled "Sony PXW X70 audio beeping", I've isolated out the beeping.

First thing to note (forgive the pun) is that there are two tones at work, on the 1khz and 2kz frequencies.

A visual spectrogram of the cleaned up-ish audio is attached.

You can download a finished .wav sample file from http://www.filedropper.com/pxw-x70beeps

Andrew

PS. It really does sound like a heart beat monitor for your camera. At least, that's what came to mind.

David and Ron:

If the audio issue does not get resolved soon, will either of you regret purchasing this particular camcorder? I have a pressing interest in knowing.

Thanks!

I have not purchased it yet as it is not yet available in my area. Due early Dec. The audio issue is of little concern to me as I have said seems to be similar to my other Sony cameras for which the solution is do not use a mic in channel 2 and leave in line mode. For me this is how I normally operate anyway so of no concern. To others it may well be a problem.

Ron Evans

David and Ron: Have both of you done the firmware update?

I have not done a firmware update as this camera belongs to Sony's press team and is only on loan to me.

Having said that, I thought the audio fix in the firmware was simply something to do with swapping the channels round?

I reiterate that as a loan unit, it may simply be that mine has been damaged by careless reviewers prior to it getting into my sticky paws.

In answer to your other question though, if I *had* purchased this, I'd be pretty annoyed by the audio glitches if they proved not to be a faulty unit but inherent.

Regards
David

the vivitar 8-button lanc controller comes with the cable (2.5mm female to sony AV/R) so you just need to get the VMCAVM1. Now the vivitar does lots of stuff (including focus +/-) but also selectable and constant zoom speed plus variable. and more. The zoom rocker makes a loud(ish) click but there are ways to fix it. you'll have to open it and put a piece of paper on the 2 switches (of the zoom) and then gaffer tape to cover the paper and fix it. After you close it the clicks are gone making this cheap controller one of the best that I had. I use a manfrotto now (on a sony EX1r) and I still miss that controller because it was good, and the angle on the tripod handle was perfect plus the zoom rocker was vertical making it more intuitive (at least to me). I use a manfrotto (on EX1r) now and I still miss the vivitar. seriously.

Anthony, how can we extend the controller to say 15-20ft? None of the sites specifically say the cable length included on these remotes and your setup seems the most ideal but I need a greater distance remote functionality. I don't know why Sony assumes the remote will just be near the camera in every situation!

Also, does anyone know if the Wi-Fi capability on the camcorder allows for you to control zoom via the app? There is no users manual online for the Sony PXW-X70 and I am surprised at the lack of updates on Sony's behalf of firmware and documentation.

Purchased exactly the two items Todd mentions and the Varizoom VZ-Rock works beautifully with them. You can have nice smooth ramped speed zoom take offs and landings without any problems. Nearly as good as a proper B4 zoom contoller and that's saying something.

Edius handles the XAVC-L codec at this time. I believe Sony Creative hinted some time in December for a general release of the decoder.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney.

Which exact Varizoom did you get? I see a couple different ones all using the VZ-Rock name; is this it? VariZoom VZRock Variable-Rocker for LANC Camcorders VZ-ROCK

...and I have a basic Libec unit - would it also require these same two cables??

Those two cables work with my Libec controller just fine

I imagine I must have a broken handle unit, it is a Sony review sample after all and it's probably been through the mill with other testers (though I'd have hoped it would withstand the abuse)

Well I can't find any shortwave tuner guys here Dave. I have tried everything you have mentioned plus swapped mics on inputs, a mixture of Senny, Ramsa, Sony and Audio Technica mics and I can't get a beep, crackle or hiss out of the unit other than what I would expect. Even tried with inputs #1 and #2 on manual cranked up to level 10 with or without a mics in the inputs. In a dead sterile room the only noise I can hear is the even level low hiss of a mic looking for sound when the attenuation is set to 0 and the AGC is set to AUTO. This is in both modes E to E and recorded playback.

I think I would be suspicious of the unit you have in hand. Maybe there is an issue with the handle unit. If you remove the handle unit can you still record this phantom beep? If so then that would suggest an issue with the camera itself.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

That's very reassuring to hear and thank you for that extensive testing.

Sony are now sending me a replacement loaner so I'll post an update here when it arrives. Apparently the dodgy-sounding X70 was taken to Africa by a journalist before me so it may have been nibbled on by a lion or something...

Regards
David

"nibbled on by a lion or something..." LOL!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydbey

Has anyone cleverer than I been able to estimate the native ISO of the x70 - and how does this compare to an PMW-EX1 or equivalent?

I tested my CX900 against my work JVC HM790, and found that 15db of Sony gain equalled 0db of JVC gain. 33db of Sony gain equalled 18db of JVC gain. The JVC is f10@2000, and is about the worst camera I have ever used in low light. The Sony is cleaner at 33db than the JVC is at 18db. I don't believe the db of the Sony, I use it as a reference to what percentage of the gain "range" I am at. :-)

The JVC can go even higher with LUX gain modes, but these are practically useless for anything other than absolute emergencies where movement is happening.

Paul

Thanks for that, Paul.

I found this clip and thought it was informative. Comparing image brightness by eye seems to indicate the native ISO of the x70 is around 400 (to me anyway).

Sony pxw-x70 / canon 5d mark III iso test: sony pxw-x70 & canon 5d mark III iso test - YouTube

For anyone that bought Catalyst Browse, there is a 50% discount off Catalyst Prepare, makes it just about worth buying!
Link here
news@mail.sonycreativesoftware.com

.. and if you did not buy Browse, you can still get Prepare for around $150 through B&H, versus around $200. This is what I did.

Is there a paid version of CB? I downloaded and installed for free but after installation it said I needed openCL, so I haven't used it yet.

I think I would be suspicious of the unit you have in hand.

Indeed it was, as suspected, a duff version, I think perhaps even a pre-release one that's done the rounds of various people before me.

I'm pleased to report that the replacement unit - so shiny it's clearly never been touched by human hands - is sounding much better. No mysterious beeps and no chronic self-noise emanating from channel 2!

Regards
David

Is there a paid version of CB? I downloaded and installed for free but after installation it said I needed openCL, so I haven't used it yet.

There was (?is??), but I think you had to buy it before Prepare was introduced to be eligible for the discount

I don't know if anyone is interested but I've found a full zoom through wide angle adapter that works beautifully with the X70. A little distortion on full wide but totally usable. It's an HD Fujinon .82 x adapter that was made for the 1/3" 16x zoom lens that came with some of the later JVC HD 1/3" cameras.

I've had this lying around for a couple of years or so and saw it on the shelf the other day and thought "I wonder, hmm!"

It actually has an 82mm thread diameter so way too big for the X70's 62mm filter thread. The other problem was that the 82mm thread on the Fuji adapter it too far forward on the adapter for a 62-82mm step up ring to be fitted. With a bit of measuring I calculated that if I used a filter ring only off an old 82mm filter and a 62-82mm step up ring I would be in business.

Sure enough. I unscrewed the retainer ring out of and old 82mm filter, removed the old chipped filter element and then just screwed this now empty 82mm filter ring, now a spacer, onto the back of the Fujinon wide adapter. Next I screwed a 62-82mm step up ring on the old 82mm filter ring ring /spacer and Voila! I now had a nice full zoom through adapter that had an effective width in FF terms of just under 24mm. It works a treat.

What I like about this unit is that it was designed to work with an 82mm front objective but on a 62mm lens mount you are using the juiciest central part of the adapter only and are well away from the edges. It's nice and sharp right across its field of view at all apertures on the X70.

The other nice aspect of this adapter is that unlike many other wide adapters it's not conical, it has parallel sides. Most wide adapters are conical in shape and don't allow a small camera to sit flat on a flat surface. With this unit there is about 1.5mm parallel clearance between the bottom of the adapter and a flat surface such as a table top. Just to ensure the rings don't unscrew and for added security I just put a wrap of electrical tape around the adapter and the two rings.

Occasionally these adapters turn up on eBay. The model number is a Fujinon WCV-82SC. One went for $10.00 last week! These cost in the high hundreds when they came out. Great value if you can score one.

If interested have a look at the attached pics.

I finally got my X70 on Monday but have been unable to test it much until the last two days.

One thing I haven't seen is a depth of field comparison of the 1" chip. I've been using the Canon XF100, a single 1/3" chip camera. But the Canon's iris is 1.8-2.8, the Sony is 2.8-4. Does the Canon's wider iris negate much of the advantage of the Sony's bigger chip when looking for blurrier bokeh?

Well, the Sony *is* better, but not by a huge margin. I'm sure there are more combinations that would show more or less difference. I could get closer to the subject and have the background farther away and get more of the blurred background effect. But, here's what I did. Both cameras were set with iris wide open. I decided to set both at 80% zoom. The teapot is 6 feet from the camera. The books are 10 feet from the camera. Don't judge the color, saturation, sharpness, etc. - but the Canon is the bottom, warm looking sample. The Sony is on top and was shot using a flat PP I'm experimenting with that was not graded. You need to click to see the image larger to really get the effect.

Notes:
1. On the Canon, the book titles "Parasite" and "Ozu" are still pretty readable. I don't think you could read those on the Sony if you didn't already know what they said.
2. Note how the scrollwork design on the brown chair at the left is almost gone in the Sony version.
3. The blue behind the books and chair is an exterior glass door with mini blinds 3-4 feet behind the books. On the Sony the slats have mostly disappeared.
4. Finally, this was shot in very low indoor lighting. Note the graininess/noise in the Canon - it was at 12 db Gain. The Sony's Gain is tighter and smoother - and it was at 15db. The Sony was shooting the max quality XAVC 1080p60, the Canon its best 4:2:2 codec @ 1080p30 (it doesn't do 60p@1080.

I've studied with interest all the PP settings posted by Paul Anderegg and Christopher Young. Don't laugh, but now that I have the camera I'm testing their settings - calling the settings Paul and Chris :-)

However, I really like to shoot flat, then do tweaking in post (nothing too fancy and I won't even call it "grading"). But I don't shoot on a deadline, enjoy the creative aspect of this, and have the time to mess with it.

Paul and Christopher - it sounds like you are always looking for a finished look in-camera, but I've been experimenting with flatter variations of your settings. I'm raising the Black Level even more, setting Black Gamma to its highest setting, dialing down Saturation, setting Knee even lower than 87.5 and -2, etc. I'm getting some looks I like, but am still testing.

I even tried your settings with Cinematone1 - that didn't go well. I realized that the Cine gammas *already* have some stretching built in and adding more led to some banding. And as Christopher posted earlier, I've found the Cine gammas to be noiser anyway.

Paul had asked for some feedback. I haven't tested your settings yet in sunlight but indoors with careful custom white balance I'm finding them just slightly magenta/blue. I'm experimenting with backing down the Color Phase a couple of notches. And, Christopher, in my testing yours is slightly yellow/green and I'm liking it with the Color Phase tweaked *up* a notch or two.

You probably haven't tested this at all, but do you have any comments on how to tweak your settings for a flatter look? Am I on the right track with that? Should I be making WB adjustments instead of Color Phase if I want to tweak the overall color?

Thanks for all that you've done already testing the camera!

Chris, I use an EXII that looks almost identical to that, in fact, I believe the newer JVC version is based on the EXII from 16x9 Inc. On the X70, it's almost impossible to tell it's attached. On a JVC HM650, the sides and corners are blurry and have CA. On my HM790, the corners vignette. Seems these adapters are just right for these little cameras, and really don't feel too odd or heavy once attached. 16x9 Inc provided me a direct 72mm thread to replace the stock 82, and a 62mm step down, so i can use it on the HM650 and the X70.

David, thanks for playing with my settings. By custom white balancing, do you mean push to white? Everything I do is with the presets or with manual kelvin, because once you push to white, the camera changes things other than b-y kelvin temperature. Unless you are in a 3200k studio, or in sun light, push to white is not really a viable alternative IMO. Playing with the base phase adjustment can provide real usable correction, just crank that sucker up and down till the LCD or EVF looks better. Works for scene by scene, don't crank and leave it there.

That being said, I am working with a new PP set-up based on Cinematone 1. I am finding that this little camera is not "scope friendly", meaning the color correction settings are meant to be done by eyeball. I am also finding that there are large expanses of color revision numbers that will look identical on the scope, but will change the visual appearance of a color dramatically. Weirdly enough, you can go to a +4 then color changes at +5, then changes back to what it looked like at +4 at +6. So for any further testing, the DSC chart and vectorscope will be used to get the most offensive colors (reds are most important!) in the neighborhood, then further adjustments will be made by eye. Cinematone 1 is a bit noisy, but it gave me the most accurate mustard color yellows, instead of the almost rubber duck yellows the rest give, mostly with a severe hint of neon green!

Important note, color revision/correction settings for picture profiles are only good for the PP they were adjusted for. They are not interchangeable, and in fact, on a vectorscope, the base color matrix settings vary wildly in where they paint their colors. If you want to see the variance, find some yellows and just scroll through stock PP's 1-6, and see how the changes appear.

Paul

David, have you played with the PP WB settings? They really need to be factored into your PP settings, they are there for a reason, and that reason is these cameras are all over the place color wise. You can store two WB of-sets, one called LB and one called R-B. You are able to toggle between them. They simply move the entire color palette (on the scope) in a singular direction, putting your white in the center.

Got magenta/blue? Try -B a couple and a -R. Alternately, on the LB, just decrease magenta, go to green. :)

Paul

Paul - yes, I've been using Push to White. So you're saying you just eyeball the white balance while manually changing the kelvin? OK, that may explain why I was getting some color shifts on both your settings and Chris's, but I'm glad to know that Color Phase is a good way to adjust.

But all this just makes me more certain I want to continue my shoot flat and adjust in post approach. I did try Cine1 and liked it, but realized your color settings wouldn't work for it, and I haven't had a chance to test in anything but low light, which is not my usual scenario. I did find Cine1 not as noisy as Cine2, and liked the smooth rolloff of highs and lows. I'll experiment some more and await what you find out.

Yes, I did realize that your extensive Color Revision adjustments would only apply if using the Still color mode (assuming that's what you meant).

I'll keep in mind the PP level WB as a way of further refining the looks.

I use push to white merely to attain the KELVIN of the light, I then quickly toggle into manual kelvin set, set to whatever push to white said the K was, and I am set to shoot. The PP WB adjustments should be sued to "center" your whiting after you select the correct kelvin for your lighting, but still see your whites a bit off-color. You can push to white 5 times and get the same color temperature reading, but vastly different hues and colors. When you dial the camera manually, you are getting solid and repeatable colors, like an actually broadcast camera. High end broadcast gear changes kelvin, and nothing else when you push to white.

Here are my current Cinematone 1 PP settings that I got off the scope and with a bit of "eyeball" calibration as well. You can try them out to see how you like them. NO color depth adjustments made on this. These were adjusted with the camera seeing and set to 3300k on a 3200k incandescent light source.

Color phase: +3
Memory 1: 12, 4, 0/ +13, +15
Memory 2: 13, 7, 0/ +7, 0

Try using those color revisions as a base, and simply point them at a colorful scene and ramp them up and down to see changes visually. It is sort of like an eyeglass test at a optometrist....better, or worse, better or worse. :-)

Paul

Occasionally these adapters turn up on eBay. The model number is a Fujinon WCV-82SC. One went for $10.00 last week! These cost in the high hundreds when they came out. Great value if you can score one.


Christopher: Thanks for the heads-up - I have been looking for a suitable low-cost WA adaptor for the X70. Anyway, this looks good and I took the plunge (I trust your judgement) and picked one up today on ebay for $79. One question: I can't find much on the specs, but is there a filter screw at the front end, if so, what size is that? Also, regarding the need for the "empty" filter ring, I was considering getting this: Cokin 82mm Extension Ring R8282 B&H Photo Video

That would seem to do that job, together with a 62-82mm step-up, as you say.

-Terence

So it was you Terence!!!, got there 2 minutes before me for the W/A on Adorama, well done!

Just went onto the Adorama site and bought one for £74!! but shipping is $60 and I'll have to pay duty when it arrives in Thailand

So it was you Terence!!!, got there 2 minutes before me for the W/A on Adorama, well done!

Sorry, Mike. Nothing personal!

It was $74 not £74, being a Brit I often do that

- I have been looking for a suitable low-cost WA adaptor for the X70.
-Terence

So it was you who grabbed the Adorama one. Good move :) I wondered if that would go fairly quickly. Look I just checked out that Cokin 82-82 extension ring. A bit hard to tell looking at the picture but I feel pretty sure that would do the job along with the 62-82mm step up. I must admit I didn't know that extension rings as such existed, and I have a big collection of Cokin filters, adapters and mount etc for the stills stuff, also use them on video sometimes. The small variable ND grads should work quite well on the X70.

Re a filter screw on the front of the adapter? Yes there is one and it is also 82mm as were many of the Fuji and Canon B4 lenses front filter mounts. I guess they stuck with 82mm as it was almost the defacto filter size on many 13 to 20 x ENG lenses. I am currently using one of the 82mm UVs off one of my old B4 lens on the adapter until I can get around to picking up another one.

I trust your belief in my judgement is upheld once you receive and review your adapter. Fingers crossed here. I think you will enjoy using it :)

Geez I must get Mr. Hurd to allow me to change my name to Chris not Christopher. I only got called that by my mother if I had done something wrong :(

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

It can also be noted that the front lens assembly of the CX900/AX100/X70 is pretty strong. With the weight of these large glass converters, I have never had any binding, flexing, or any other indication that the weight is affecting the mechanicals of the front barrel assembly.

Paul

So it was you who grabbed the Adorama one. Good move :)
Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Hi Chris - Yes, that was a lucky find. The used price is quite variable. I had been toying with getting a used Zunow WA adapter on B&H. It was reviewed in another X70 thread and got a general thumbs-down, but I thought it marginally acceptable. I'm pretty sure this Fujinon will be much better and it does appear similar to the EXII that Paul uses to good effect.

I had no idea about those Cokin extenders either. Anyway, they are cheap enough to try out, but I think it should do the job. I appreciate you taking a look at that and for all your advice.

-Terence

No probs as we say down here. As Paul says the front end of the X70 is a pretty tuff barrel and this Fuji adapter seems to give it no problems. It's interesting to note that the Sony VCL-HG0872, which is a .8 x adapter that requires a 62-72 step up feels almost twice the weight and is 25% wider at the front than the rear. Have one of those lying around since the Z1 days. Maybe I will check it out but so far am totally happy with the Fujinon.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Don't know if it would help any, but there is a Fujinon WCV-82SC for sale, but as part of a package, Ugh, I know.

It's an estate sale and the seller says they won't break it up but the ad is 8 days old. It's a craigslist Palm Springs ad at
Older Professional Field Production Package (SEE LIST) (http://palmsprings.craigslist.org/pho/4781349246.html)

Thanks to everyone who has shed light on the X70. I am getting close, but will wait to see what the JVC GY HM200 looks like. Anyway, I have a couple of questions for those of you who have used it.
--Is there any Tele Macro capability?
--How is the Focus Assist feature, and does the viewfinder turn monochrome when it is activated? My aging eyes are needing this more all the time.
--I am very leery of using a camera that I can't use the LCD and Viewfinder simultaneously. I could get used to this but he additional problem of the LCD turning off if the the viewfinder senses movement is troubling to me. Has anyone found this to be a concern?
Thanks so much.

>>>
I am very leery of using a camera that I can't use the LCD and Viewfinder simultaneously. I could get used to this but he additional problem of the LCD turning off if the the viewfinder senses movement is troubling to me. Has anyone found this to be a concern?
<<<

Yes, I found it to be a right pain in the *****, very annoying indeed. Sometimes I was standing behind the camera looking at the screen and the VF would detect me there and switch the screen off!

This was, however, on the same troublesome prototype that had the audio problem so it may have been fixed on production units.

Regards
David

Thanks to everyone who has shed light on the X70. I am getting close, but will wait to see what the JVC GY HM200 looks like. Anyway, I have a couple of questions for those of you who have used it.
--Is there any Tele Macro capability?
--How is the Focus Assist feature, and does the viewfinder turn monochrome when it is activated? My aging eyes are needing this more all the time.
--I am very leery of using a camera that I can't use the LCD and Viewfinder simultaneously. I could get used to this but he additional problem of the LCD turning off if the the viewfinder senses movement is troubling to me. Has anyone found this to be a concern?
Thanks so much.

Focus assist can be set to 4X and 8X or 4X only the viewfinder stays in colour, LCD does not turn off when the viewfinder is opened but does when you put your eye close to it, then you can't see the LCD anyway! no problem

Chris - The WA adapter arrived and looks in excellent nick. Just the bare bones, no front lens cap or lens bag. The EXII has a front filter thread, which I wish this had. But very happy.

Good one Terence!

But I must admit to being somewhat confused by the statement that you say there is NO front filter thread? Are you sure? Have a look at the pic of the one I have, excuse the shaky phone pic, but you can clearly see the front filter thread and it takes an 82mm screw in. Unless JVC / Fujinon changed the spec at some time? How odd?

Notwithstanding that I think you will get good mileage out of it. Rummage around old photo shops and I'm sure you will find a rear 62mm cap. I have to do this myself. Any decent broadcast dealer is likely to be able to help you out with an 82mm front cap new or used. New you would pay the same for a cap as you did for the lens! Look for an 82mm peanut butter lid :)

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

You are right, Chris - it *does* have filter thread. This is a classic case of seeing what you believe to be true. I had previously checked the specs on an obsolete B&H ad that said "Filter size: None". When it arrived I never looked or noticed (not with these old peepers anyway). Great - I'll probably slap on a UV filter for protection - until I find a suitable lid!

UGH, Adorama did not have two Fujinon converters, just the on that Terence bought! they've cancelled my order

Aint the EXII pretty on my old CX900? :-)

Very nice, Paul. What's the external monitor you're using?

-Terence