In "Editing Timebase" you say to select 23.98... there is also an option for 24. Is 24 not good?

posted wrong information. my apologies

Yes, 24p is good (my HDVxDV conversions are done in an exact 24p framerate) but because the MPEG Streamclip conversions are recommended to work with a "23.976" framerate, then "23.98" in FCP would be the closest match to that.

As I come from a PAL area, I only need to work in exact 24p and 25p, but I would imagine that 23.98 would be optimum in an NTSC area because it would be more compatible for converting to 29.97 (for showing on SD and HD TVs).

But it depends on what your needs are, of course (for example you might only be looking to transfer to film), and if you do want to work in an exact 24p editing timebase, just use Cinema Tools to conform your clips from 23.976 to 24 and then import them into FCP.

I've been reading about loss of footage that occurs when digitizing HDV. I was planning on purchasing two HD200s when available and the JVC HDV deck, and would love some clarification.

My workflow would be to shoot on mini DV, then digitze the entire tape in one shot from the HDV deck.

Will FCP lose the first 6 seconds and then digitize the rest?

Or will there be a gap before each start/stop?

Just trying to get all correct info before investing my $$. Thanks!

AFAIK (I don't do HDV) - from reading threads here and elswhere - the gap is one sec + whatever you have set up as pre- and postroll in your capture presets.

This subject has been covered extensively many times.


Gunleik

I believe that if you're shooting DV (Not HDV-SD) that the gap shoudn't be a problem.

However, if you're shooting HDV, yeah, you're gonna have gaps. Gunleik is correct, the gaps are based on what you have as a pre/post-roll time.

Depending on your shooting style, this may or may not be acceptable. When I shoot narrative work with my HD-100s, it's perfectly fine, since I preroll before each shot anyways. When I'm shooting weddings, gaps are not acceptable.

If you're shooting something that doesn't allow for any gaps, you may want to consider using AIC, which doesn't have a problem with the gaps.

Thanks for the response but still looking for a definitive answer. The workflow I mentioned earlier is for weddings.

So it sounds like FCP loses the first second of each cut even if the footage is digitized from the deck in one shot- not a batch digitize.

Can someone please confirm.

BTW- if this is true then I have to say HDV workflow is seriously impractical.

For weddings, the definitive answer is: We're screwed.

I'm in the same boat, and definitely feel the pain. Native HDV is definitely not a practical option for shooting weddings or events. There's too much "Hey, look at that!" going on, and we need everything that's in our shots, and don't have the opportunity to preroll.

You will always lose at least a second or two between clips using Native HDV. Not a major problem with narrative work and such, since you'd be prerolling anyways, but definitely a killer for weddings and such. It has something to do with the GOPs and the way the TC blips when you start recording again.

For weddings, the solution I've found is to simply use AIC. No problems with the timecode gaps.

Now, bear in mind, all of this information is based on the HD-100/HD110. It's quite possible that the TC has been tweaked in the 200/250, although I doubt it.

Well, after reading everything there is to possibly read I have decided to go with the AJA Kona LH. I will digitize DVC Pro HD and avoid editing in HDV altogether.

the answer is the DR HD 100 I have this works exellent

Ladies & Gentlemen-
I wanted to digitize HDPro footage I shot with my new JVC GY-100A to my FCP HD 4.5. I set all the items I could set in FCP digitizing window and Easy set up, indication HD 60/30 footage. I also use the menu in my camera to set all the playback outputs to HD720/30.
I also switched the IEEE 1394 switch on my camera.
Yet, FCP refused to see my camera, couldn't make a connection.
Under "View" in FCP - Etxernal device- all the options were grayed out.
What the heck am I doing wrong?
Can anybody help?
Thanks,
Wolfgang Schumacher
PS: I have no problem digitizing normal DV footage.

I believe you need to upgrade FCP from 4.5 to 5.1

Ladies & Gentlemen-
I wanted to digitize HDPro footage I shot with my new JVC GY-100A to my FCP HD 4.5. I set all the items I could set in FCP digitizing window and Easy set up, indication HD 60/30 footage. I also use the menu in my camera to set all the playback outputs to HD720/30.
I also switched the IEEE 1394 switch on my camera.
Yet, FCP refused to see my camera, couldn't make a connection.
Under "View" in FCP - Etxernal device- all the options were grayed out.
What the heck am I doing wrong?
Can anybody help?
Thanks,
Wolfgang Schumacher
PS: I have no problem digitizing normal DV footage.

Are you sure that FCP ver 4.5 supports HDV? In easy set-up, do you see a setting for " 720p/30 HDV"? This is dfferent than "HD720/30"

I seem to recall that HDV support from FCP came on version 5 or higher.

Regards,

As I remembered FCP 4.5 "HD" had 720p30 on AIC only not native HDV,
IT also had the DVCProHD format too. But no Native HDV.

Jay & Karl-
Thanks for the fast reply and your willingness to help me.
I went back to FCP and Easy set up and notized that, indeed, FCP lists
DVCPro HD-720p30 as well as DVCPro HD-720p60.
Yet, while the format changes in the window to 16x9 after selecting HD-720p30, it did not do the trick.
Is this a FCP or JVC thing?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Wolfgang Schumacher

Jay & Karl-
Thanks for the fast reply and your willingness to help me.
I went back to FCP and Easy set up and notized that, indeed, FCP lists
DVCPro HD-720p30 as well as DVCPro HD-720p60.
Yet, while the format changes in the window to 16x9 after selecting HD-720p30, it did not do the trick.
Is this a FCP or JVC thing?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Wolfgang Schumacher

Thanks, Jemore-
It looks like I need to bite the bullet and upgrade my FCP 4.5 to the next higher number. Your hunch maybe right. All replies point into the same direction.
Thanks,
Wolfgang Schumacher

Thanks, Jemore-
It looks like I need to bite the bullet and upgrade my FCP 4.5 to the next higher number. Your hunch maybe right. All replies point into the same direction.
Thanks,
Wolfgang Schumacher

You should be able to verify this easily with Apple.

Regards, Carl

Wolfgang If you open up "easy set up" do you see AIC 720p30?
If you can then you can use that for sequence and capture instead of HDV. It is an intermediate codec which is a work around until you upgrade, some like the AIC codec more because it is an intra-frame solution to HDVs' inter-frame set up.

FCP 4.5 HD was not HDV compatible. You will need version 5 and higher.
I suggest buying the Universal Final Cut Studio v5.1 update. As an owner of FCP 4.5 it will only cost you $199US and you will also get Compressor 2, Motion 2, DVD Studio Pro 4, Quicktime 7 Pro & Soundtrack Pro as part of the deal.

http://www.apple.com/universal/crossgrade/

In the meantime, if you want to capture and edit HDV material from your HD100, you can use one of the tried and true intermediate codec methods.

Here's an exerpt from something I posted ages ago:

So, does FCP 5 edit HDV 720P30 natively? The answer is yes. It maintains timecode, you can use log and capture, it will batch capture, you can edit in native resolution, it will export and it works beautifully.

Does FCP 5 edit HDV 720P24 or 720P25 natively? Yes, as of FCP v5.1.2.

Does FCP 4.5 or 5 edit HDV 720P24 or 720P25 non-natively? Absolutely. There are at least three separate workflows that work quite well. We have discussed the various methods at length in this forum and in our FCP for HDV forum.

The M.O.S. AIC method: (additional cost: $0)
If you have FCP5, you can set the Easy Setup to "HDV 720P30 Apple Intermediate Codec" and digitize, without TC, video in any JVC format.
You can also use iMovieHD to do exactly the same thing. THe AIC digitizer captures everything on the tape and makes a new clip every time it detects a new scene (start/stop.)
The AIC digitizer is not smart enough to know that the frame rate is set for 24 or 25, so instead it throws away the repeat flagged frames, but maintains a 59.94 fps frame rate for the quicktime file.
Therefore, 720P24 and 720P25 will require the use of Cinema Tools to conform the frame rate to 23.98 or 25 respectively. This method works well for M.O.S. projects like music videos, but is not ideal for sync sound situations unless you used a slate and want to capture the sound separately.

The DVHSCAP and MPEGStreamclip Method (additional cost: $0)
This method is now the most popular because of its reliability and low cost.
Download two free programs. First, DVHSCap from Apple's Firewire SDK (install the kit and then drag the DVHSCap app from your Macintosh HD/Developer/Firwire SDK22/ to your applications folder.)
ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/FireWireSDK22.dmg
Next, download the latest version of MPEG Streamclip from Squared5.com (http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html).

Now use DVHSCap to capture m2t streams from your camera via firewire. The program is pretty straightforward.

When you have captured your clips, open MpegStreamclip. The select Batch list from the list menu. Drag in your m2t clips.
Select "Export to Quicktime." In the QT settings window, select Apple Intermediate Codec for compression. Turn the quality up to 100%, set the frame size to 1280x720 (unscaled) and deselect Interlaced scaling and Reinterlace chroma. Type "23.98" into the frame rate box, and set the sound to 48Khz, stereo.
Click "Make movie" and set your destination.
Click "Go" when your batch list is ready and wait for the transcoding to take place.
In FCP4.5, you can create a new sequence preset that uses Apple Intermediate codec, 1280x720, square pixels, 23.98 fps. You can also go into options for the codec and select 720P for the optimizer.
You can now import your new clips and get right to work.

The HDVxDV method (additional cost: $80)
HDVxDV now supports 720P24 capture from the HD100. The interface is not as easy to use as FCP's built in Log & Capture because it has no live video/audio preview, and there are no search buttons, just FF, REW, STOP & PLAY.
However, it is simple and easy to understand. Brad Wright, the developer, has attempted to facilitate the capture of source TC, but it does not work well yet.
Simply put, you capture clips straight from the camera, then export them to a secondary codec of your choice for editing in FCP 4.5 or 5. I suggest Apple Intermediate Codec. There is one little inconvience in the software (v1.24) that creates 24fps files instead of 23.98fps files. Either one seems to work in a 23.98 sequence without rendering, so I guess it isn't a big deal, unless it is the root of the problem of sync issues some people have reported on long clips. If the sync issue is created during the export, then changing the frame rate to 23.98 in Cinema Tools won't fix it. Maybe Brad Wright can inform us of what is going on with regard to 23.98 vs 24fps.

The Lumiere HD method (additional cost: $179)
Lumiere HD now "supports" 720P24 and 720P25 capture. The interface is basically the same as HDVxDV (I believe both originated from Apple's DVHSCap) but Lumiere HD has added space for description, scene and take with auto-incrementation. The workflow can seem daunting at first (and definitely takes the most time overall) but there can be some distinct advantages for proxy offline editing.
However, TC is not captured and batch recapturing is not supported.
I have been testing the latest version of Lumiere HD (v1.6b6) for a couple of weeks and it is working MUCH BETTER than 1.6b2 ever did. The workflow remains unchanged, but you can output 720P24 back to the HD100. Lumiere HD 1.6b6 is the only piece of software on the mac that will allow you to do that.

Capturing HDV-SD60P or HDV-SD50P for "overcranked" slow motion. (additional cost: $0)
You can use Apple's DVHSCap (or HDVxDV/Lumiere HD) to capture 480P60 or 576P50 HDV to m2t files. Then you can use MPegStreamclip to convert and uprez the m2t streams to Quicktime @ 59.94fps. Cinema Tools can then conform the frame rate down to 23.98 and you have instant overcranked slow-mo for use in FCP 4.5 or 5.[/QUOTE]

Carl, Jemore, Tim-
You guys are awesome. I got more help than expected.
Many thanks. I will do as you guys suggested.
A gratefull,
Wolfgang

We have the new ‘universal’ version of FCP installed now (in a G5, v5.1 and in a MacPro 3ghz, v5.1.2) and in both machines we find that the print-to-video feature is presenting a problem, however the problem appears to be confined to the JVC GY-HD100UA only. It does not occur when we are using our Sony Z1U...and it did not occur with the GY-HD100UA either UNTIL we upgraded to FCP 5.1 and 5.1.2.

Here is the problem:
When we 'print-to-video' a sequence that has been “conform to HDV” pre-rendered, FCP 5.1 and 5.1.2 now suddenly insist on starting the render all over again -- spending three hours to “conform-to-HDV” an hour-long sequence that was already pre-rendered “conform to HDV" earlier.

it does actually take the full three hours... and then it prompts us to proceed (press record on the camera) and the print-to-video occurs normally.

In the old version (non-universal, G5) FCP apparently used the “conform-to-HDV” render we did previously. It would take only about two minutes to prepare itself for print-to-video and issue the prompt for us to roll-tape-and-record. In 5.1 and 5.1.2 this takes three hours, executing first a full conform to HDV render.

We observe this problem with our JVC GY-HD100UA - not our Sony Z1U. When we try to do the same process with 5.1.2 in the MacPro using the Sony Z1U, the prior render is recognized and we are prompted to begin tape recording after the usual 1-to-2 minutes. So this would appear to be a JVC support issue in 5.1 and 5.1.2 only -- as print-to-video into our JVC camera used to be just as speedy as print-to-video to the Z1U -- until we upgraded to 5.1, and 5.1.2.

Is anyone else experiencing this anomaly? Could we be missing something...?

49 views...no replies: OK, I'm going to reply to my own post!! We have found the problem. This anomaly occurs when making use of a sequence originally prepared in the pre-FCP v.5.1 era -- which for us means last week! Everything described above occurs when using an old render. If we re-render in the new v5.1.2 everything operates normally. Indeed, the MacPro makes that render ready for print in about 5 seconds - !!

Via firewire...I tried loading the videoscope and nothing would come on. I do not currently have the mac with me, but what are the steps with FCP Pro studio in getting a live feed from a JVC HD100 HDV signal via Firewire? I need the waveform tool to evenly light a greenscreen tomorrow. Any help soon would be helpfull, thanks!

That will not work. The HDV FireWire feed only works with a m2t transport stream from tape.

Here's a suggestion. Take the composite video out and send it to an A/D converter (Canopus, DV deck, DV camera, etc.) and send that into FCP or a waveform program like ScopeBox. The waveform will be good enough to set the green screen.

Thanks for the heads up. I dont own the mac. I would prefer to use Sony Vegas, would this work firewire, or no?

That's a good question, I believe DV Rack HD2 for the PC will cover your needs. Whether Vegas likes the files recorded by DV Rack you'll need to research but as a waveform it should work fine. Also their web page is very vauge about HDV support. Make sure it plays nice with 720p30 HDV.

Once again we are still working within the technical constrictions imposed by the HDV format. There's a lot of processing work going on while the m2t stream is being converted to a frame editable format. Right now QuickTime and HDV have a difficult partnership, it getting better but still difficult. It works fine once the QuickTime wrapper is added but people still have problems with tape capture dropping footage at camera pauses. I use a FireStore and been happy with the results. Avid also has continuing problems getting their codecs to play nice.

If you have a traditional waveform monitor available, I suggest hooking that up to the composite out of the HD-100. A lot less hassle then another computer.

has any one have any 1st hand exp on fcp to edit footage from a 720p recording off off a HD100/200/250 i am considering a buy of both hd200 & FCP ???

what no one has an answer ............. :(

Hi Jain,

I have both the JVC GY-HD100U and FCP running on a quad G5, it captures just fine via the firewire connection. I am running into issues though with timecode breaks where I have a lot of power on/off's on my camera during a shoot and it breaks the time code whch TCP doesn't like. So, basically make sure you record several seconds before & after each of your shots. The other thing to consider, is that the JVC 200/250 is 60p capable, which FCP does not support right now in native HDV. My guess is that they'll have an update to FCP later this year (hopefully) to support 60p, but the work around now is to buy a Kona or Blackmagic interface and use the DVCProHD 60p codec in FCP. Otherwise, everything works fine between the JVC and FCP. Have fun!

Jeremy

Hi Clark,

I finally have go my FCP machine. its a gr8 exp to feel the MAC power & look as aginst the WIN look I have been with for all my life,. FCP poses a tough learning curve as I went thru the tutorials etc.

My quick Q is can i also have a A.Premiere 6.5 or later to run MAC machine for simple editing ....

Any future suggsetions for learning up the MAC thingy,.....

I know a fella that runs Prem 6.5 on his Mac .. not sure which one, but one of the older non-Intel models. He says it works fine. But if you are going to dive into FCP then go all the way .. using it for "simpler" jobs will help you along the learning curve

I jumped from Premiere to Mac nearly four years ago .. no regrets here

Hi Clark,

I finally have go my FCP machine. its a gr8 exp to feel the MAC power & look as aginst the WIN look I have been with for all my life,. FCP poses a tough learning curve as I went thru the tutorials etc.

My quick Q is can i also have a A.Premiere 6.5 or later to run MAC machine for simple editing ....
If you want something simple you could try iMovie. Stick with the tutorials though, you'll soon find it's not that hard to master FCP.

I've been reading post from a year or so ago about the difficulty with FCP recognizing the ProHD stream resulting in lost video. Has there been any solution since then?

When you say ProHD, do you mean the tape type? If so, then that is the tape I was using and having problems capturing in 24p and 30p hdv. There is still no direct answer to this problem. Tim Dashwood has posted the below help for a work around solution regarding capturing 24p and editing on a 24p timeline. He has another step after MPEGStreampclip if you need to convert the frame rate - the step is to do that in Cinema Tools, then go to FCP. I hope this answers your question.


The Cinema Tools portion of the workflow you referenced is for conforming 59.94fps (60P) down to 23.98fps (24P) for a slow-motion effect.

It sounds like you just want to capture footage shot at 720P24 and work in an uncompressed format.
NOTE: 23.98 (aka 23.976) is the frame rate of 24P. For all intents and purposes you will never use 24fps in your workflow...always 23.98.

It seems you have done everything correctly so far, but I'll backtrack a bit for the benefit of others in the same boat.

You captured m2t files from the tape using DVHSCap (or HDVxDV)
You opened those m2t files individually or as a batch in MPEGStreamclip
You exported those m2t files from MPEGStreamclip as Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 quicktime and specified a frame rate of 23.98 in the export pane.
You don't need Cinema Tools because this is already 23.98fps.
You imported the quicktime files into FCP and are ready to edit.
...
Now you need to create a new sequence that matches the specs of your source files.

Hit APPLE+N to create a new sequence. It doesn't matter what preset you use.
Select that sequence and use APPLE+0(zero) to open Sequence Settings. (New Sequence and Sequence Settings can also be found in the menus,)

Adjust the sequence settings so that they match your quicktime files.
Choose HDTV 720p (16x9) as your Aspect Ratio and 1280x720 will be automatically filled in.
Use "Square" as Pixel Aspect Ratio. DO NOT checkmark Anamorphic.
Set Field Dominance to "None"
Set Editing Timebase to 23.98
Set Compressor to Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2

Click OK and you should now be able to use your quicktime files in this new sequence without any rendering required. I hope your hard drives are fast enough for uncompressed!

If you plan to use this workflow on a regular basis, you can create the above settings as a sequence preset in Audio/Video settings.

Oh and unless you want a really big file to work with don't use the Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2. Use AIC or HDV codec. I learned the hard way. But you might already know this.

Hello, so I've got this shiny Mac Pro with FC Studio 2 for testing. I can see that I still cannot capture 720p/25 HDV into Apple Intermediate, because the footage is then 50fps and therefore plays twice as fast (this has been discussed here before).

The question is: since Color cannot ingest HDV, how am I supposed to use it? What is the most straightforward workflow for JVC ProHD 25p and Color? I really hoped that this will be solved in FCP 6, but alas, it isn't. Thanks for any tips!

You do not want to use HDV for multi-passes such as color correcting. Convert it to ProRes 422

...with Compressor, I see. I guess you're right with HDV, I would just like to be given the possibility. DV PAL is 4:2:0 the same as HDV and is supported. All right then, thank you.

Just to be perfectly sure: is it just me or has anyone actually succeeded to capture ProHD 720p/25 footage directly into Apple Intermediate? I would like to lose that extra converting step in the workflow.

I have the 110U, and FCS2. I am so tired of FCP breaking my tapes up into separate clips. Yes I uncheck make new file on break, yes my camera has a supposed firmware update.

Unlike the masses, I hate having each individual clip in my bin. I want 1 tape to be 1 clip, with a simple start/stop detection with markers.

Anyone have a work around?

Or should I just get rid of this camera and get anew one.

Hi Jim.

If it's irritating you that much, I would probably do the capturing outside of FCP (using free software).

If you capture with DVHSCap, you should be able to capture the whole tape in one go. It will capture it as an .m2t file. You can then convert the entire tape (as an .m2t) into a Quicktime movie using MPEG Streamclip to transcode it into your codec of choice. AIC is an excellent codec for 720p footage, or you could even use ProRes as you have FCS2.

I've given the exact steps for this in this post:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=505953&postcount=8

The example I've given is for 25p and AIC, but you can easily modify it for other frame rates and codecs.

If you want to improve your capturing with FCP, Tim Dashwood made a number of (fairly) recent posts isolating the factors which can cause mid-clip breaks (you can search in this forum and the Pro HD forum). One thing I've noticed that can improve results in a lot of cases (but not all) is to make sure that the hard drive you are capturing to is fast enough and has a lot of free space to write to.

Well, I dont have 6000 clips, but in the course of a wedding, lets say I am well into triple digits.


I have over 100 hours of footage to dump next week, all HDV from these hd110U cameras, I dont want that bin full of 6000 clips.

Jim, the only way to get one large clip is to digitize either component analog, SDI or HDMI. In other words get out of firewire.

If you have the BR-HD50 deck then you can digitize HDMI with the Black Magic Intensity card ($350) using the deck's RS-422 for deck control. This is what we do. We then transcode the HDV to ProRes but you can choose DVCPRO HD or AIC for smaller file sizes.

If you want the same workflow as DV then you need the deck and a Black Magic or AJA card. And a fast, huge hard drive like the LaCie Biggest S2S.

I am shooting with the JVC GY-HD100 in the video format HDV 720p30p. I tried to capture the footage to my G% final cut pro 5.1.4 editting system and I get the "Unable to initialize video deck..." I know its not the cord or the camera or the settings cause I just did the simple 720 30 p preset so it should work, but it doesn't wondering if any of you out there could help me out. thanks

-brett sorem

THe first thing to check is that the camera is in VTR mode. The red LED on the top should be lit.

You should then be able to 'refresh devices' in the view menu.

I assume you chose the 720p30 HDV easy setup in FCP. The HDV/DV switch on the camera should be in HDV position, but don't switch it while the camera is on and connected to the computer.

You should have deck control and the ability to mark in/out and batch capture.


If you get no response from the camera, then it is entirely possible you have fried the firewire board. You should quit FCP and use HDVxDV or DVHSCap to confirm if there is any communication with the camera.

See this post (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=64873) in the ProHD forum for more information on the proper procedure for connecting and disconnecting the firewire to the computer.

I just refreshed the device and it worked. I knew it was just something stupid cause I had some old dv60I footage that i was able to capture fine. thanks Tim for the help.go check out the trailer and the page for my first film at www.myspace.com/loaded_film thanks

I came across this on accident...

I was importing footage shot with a Sony V1U (nice little camera if I might ad) into FCP, nothing out of the ordinary. I grabbed a tape shot with my JVCHD110U and put it in the sony on accident ( I have been working late late hours, I was tired) and to my surprise the tape not only played on the cameras LCD, but I had audio. However, FCP would not recognize any footage. I could not see, or hear anything in the Capture window.

Seeing as the V1U is a rental right now, and the HD110U is in service ( again, and again...) is there a way to get the footage shot with the 110U to import into FCP? I tried a few different ways, the Sony see's the footage as 720P 30 and says so on the lcd, all attempts at an easy setup of Generic, AIC, 720P 30, HDV, Sony HDV, 1080i have not worked.

Is it not going to work? I have some footage I should have dumped before the camera went to service, but then again, I am working real late and forgot.

Any ideas?

Sorry, Sony HDV cameras will play 720p footage from JVC HD cameras only thru the analog outputs. no FireWire.

I have really hard time figure out this. I was trying to capture footage from my last shot. This is the first time I am using the camera as a deck (I had an access to a deck before, not anymore). Anyway, FCP would not communicate at first with the camera. I check and rechecked. In the capture settings I was using 720/30p and "firewire HDV" as the connection. I was able to start capturing through "HDV intermediate apple codec". After a couple of clips I was able to capture in regular HDV setting.
First of all what is HDV intermediate apple codec? second- looks I have to render all the footage captured in this setting? Third- which one is better as far as quality? Fourth- why my computer did not want to communicate with the deck at first?
Sorry for a lot of silly questions.