DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Area 51 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/area-51/)
-   -   When will we see a new prosumer cam in the $2-$4k range from Sony or Canon? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/area-51/112928-when-will-we-see-new-prosumer-cam-2-4k-range-sony-canon.html)

Mike Burgess January 22nd, 2008 05:03 PM

When will we see a new prosumer cam in the $2-$4k range from Sony or Canon?
 
Title says it all. The FX7, while a nice affordable camcorder, is older technology (no Exmor Cmos?, larger chips, xy color, etc.). Plus, it seems to be getting a little harder to find. The Canon A1 is the other choice, and I am considering that also, but again, advances in tech. could be added.

Sony and others are blanketing the market with low cost consumer cams and high cost (to me) prosumer cams, but the middle is left high and dry.

So, Sony, Canon, are there plans for new "mid-range" ($2-4k) prosumer camcorders coming down the pipeline?

I want my new camcorder by June. So far it will be the FX7 or the A1, but if something new comes out with improvements, I could be persuaded.

Thanks,
Mike

John M. McCloskey January 23rd, 2008 05:23 PM

would be nice with a 20X zoom or better also

Bill Ravens January 23rd, 2008 06:56 PM

dream on...inflation has take its toll.
my take on things are this:
a >10,000--best of the product, probably only affordable by commercial movie studios or TV stations

b >5000 x <10000--"prosummer, event videographer, small indie
c <1000 x <5000--consumer level, event videographer, advanced student
d <1000---aunt mabel, entry level

Interesting how the levels go thru inflationary steps, When I was a kid, I worried about getting $100 for and English Raleigh bicycle.

Brian Standing January 25th, 2008 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens (Post 813121)
dream on...inflation has take its toll.

Is it inflation (electronics have historically gone DOWN in price), or a very weak U.S. dollar?

I'd love to see a replacement for the V1, with 1/3" Exmors and a fixed lens at under $4k.

Bill Koehler January 26th, 2008 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Standing (Post 814544)
Is it inflation (electronics have historically gone DOWN in price), or a very weak U.S. dollar?

I'd love to see a replacement for the V1, with 1/3" Exmors and a fixed lens at under $4k.

As long as this is Area 51... ;-)

My guess is a little of both.
Your right, electronics trend downward in price.
But as they do so, the real hardware, i.e. optics, become a bigger and bigger percentage of the total. And those things have been trending up in price. Or am I wrong?

I'm hoping to see an update of the Canon XH-A1 with:
1. Dual Compact Flash slots with auto-rollover recording. Tape is gone.
2. Options for higher bit rates, less compression.
3. Time lapse options.

With all the new product Sony has been rolling out, Canon is going to need a strong responce.

I'm guessing you will find out at NAB.

Lawrence Bansbach January 27th, 2008 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 815024)
But as they do so, the real hardware, i.e. optics, become a bigger and bigger percentage of the total. And those things have been trending up in price. Or am I wrong?

I don't think the answer is that simple. For the features offered, overall, the trend has been downward. But even if the costs of raw materials and production have increased, manufacturers have been trying to reduce costs through better designs, cheaper materials (ideally, where it doesn't matter), and elimination of expensive mechanical components (e.g., tape drives). Optics may be costly, yet every camera needs a lens, and the manufacturers seem to introduce a new lens with each new camera. This leads me to believe that they are constantly refining lens design.

Bill Koehler January 27th, 2008 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach (Post 815289)
I don't think the answer is that simple. For the features offered, overall, the trend has been downward. But even if the costs of raw materials and production have increased, manufacturers have been trying to reduce costs through better designs, cheaper materials (ideally, where it doesn't matter), and elimination of expensive mechanical components (e.g., tape drives). Optics may be costly, yet every camera needs a lens, and the manufacturers seem to introduce a new lens with each new camera. This leads me to believe that they are constantly refining lens design.

I can be wrong. It has happened before. Sometimes I'm even glad.

But looking at the sub $1000 market, or now even the lowend pro sub $2000 market, I believe a slow shrinking of the actual size (diameter) of the lens has been going on for some time, and I am sure it is a cost reduction measure. I don't see that as an improvement to the lens as it has an obvious impact on its ability to gather light.

Yes, there are other trends to reduce cost. Getting rid of tape drives and replacing them with flash memory is a very obvious one. Another possibility would be to go from a 3 x 1/3" imager design to a single 1/2" imager design. But somehow I don't expect to see that. I would really like to be wrong :-)

Lawrence Bansbach January 27th, 2008 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 815441)
Another possibility would be to go from a 3 x 1/3" imager design to a single 1/2" imager design. But somehow I don't expect to see that. I would really like to be wrong :-)

I guess it depends on the market segment. For consumer cams Panasonic is sticking to three-chip designs, but making hellishly small chips, a trend that may partly explain the shrinking lens diameters (as well as lengths). However, in the prosumer segment a new development may portend a shift to larger sensors: in the accelerating convergence of still and video camera technology, Sony's 1/1.8-inch CMOS chip, the IMX017CQE, is being used in Casio's Exilim Pro EX-F1 (a still camera) and Samsung's SC-HMX20C (a video camera).

Jack Jenkins February 11th, 2008 12:52 PM

I would think that since the CCD gap is now gone (same CCD's) between the canon XL and the A1 series cams, I would think the next logical step would be for the next series in the A1/G1 body form will have removeable lenses for sure. And since sony has done removemable lenses recently in this body format I would think it shouldn't be too long, maybe like this time next year we may be hearing some noises. The removeable lens in a compact form seems to be a niche that Sony is trying to steal from Canon, so Canon is gonna need to respond fairly soon. Beyond that, they could add tapelessness to everything and maybe go CMOS with the CCds etc.. There do seem to be some reasons for a new wave of cams.

Mike Burgess February 21st, 2008 10:48 AM

Well, I see on the B&H site that the FX7 is "Discontinued". That means they are no longer carrying it in stock, or that Sony is no longer producing it.
Could this be the first real clue to Sony bringing out a replacement for the FX7?

Mike

Ethan Cooper February 21st, 2008 12:21 PM

FX7 gone? I just checked B&H and only the PAL model is listed. The NTSC version is nowhere to be found.
I actually like my little FX7, sad to see it go, but excited that something better should be coming along to fill the void.
They didn't make these very long if it is gone. Are they still producing the FX1?

**EDIT**
I just tried another major online retailer and it's not their either. Hmm.

Robert Morane February 21st, 2008 12:56 PM

I'd love to see a Canon or a Sony recording HDV on CF card but tapeless and the size of the Sony A1U, I'd like the lense to 28-192 and have a 8 megpixels photo function..and of course for below $3000. (in fact I hope Canon would do it, it be a perfect companion for my Canon A1 and a great travel camera).

Greg Boston February 21st, 2008 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Burgess (Post 812524)
Title says it all. The FX7, while a nice affordable camcorder, is older technology (no Exmor Cmos?, larger chips, xy color, etc.). Plus, it seems to be getting a little harder to find. The Canon A1 is the other choice, and I am considering that also, but again, advances in tech. could be added.

Sony and others are blanketing the market with low cost consumer cams and high cost (to me) prosumer cams, but the middle is left high and dry.

So, Sony, Canon, are there plans for new "mid-range" ($2-4k) prosumer camcorders coming down the pipeline?

I want my new camcorder by June. So far it will be the FX7 or the A1, but if something new comes out with improvements, I could be persuaded.

Thanks,
Mike

You mean something like this?

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665291500

Due to ship around mid-March with a $1200 price tag.

Has the Exmor CMOS sensors, x-v colorspace, plus a lot of other goodies.

-gb-

Monday Isa February 21st, 2008 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Burgess (Post 830222)
Well, I see on the B&H site that the FX7 is "Discontinued". That means they are no longer carrying it in stock, or that Sony is no longer producing it.
Could this be the first real clue to Sony bringing out a replacement for the FX7?

Mike

I wonder what the resell value will be in 2 months :( I hope I can still get some money out of it in 2 months.

Ethan Cooper February 21st, 2008 01:26 PM

Monday,
Give me a call after NAB. I\'ll give you $5 for it.
No really though, drop me a line after NAB to see if I\'m still in the market. I just might be.

Wasn\'t the FX7 announced or released the summer of 2006? Two years is a fairly short life cycle of these types of cameras.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:16 PM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2021 The Digital Video Information Network