<-- The Avid support you linked to was for DVCPro50. -->

i had hoped that was made clear from my tag line as well as the heading of the press release, rob asked about editing pana's codec just wanted to let him know options are on the way...

<-- As far as Microsoft's support of DV50, it is something they say
they plan to support in the future.... I guess as soon as there
is a DV50 codec. -->

reading what i wrote i got a different impression, i got the impression that when sp2 for xp is released it WILL include suport for dvc50, which should allow other win nle's to edit dvc50 as it can be brought in through the 1394 pipe...if you read further you will see Ben mentions dv100 as well in sp2...

i never mentioned anything about canon using pana's codec, or anything else that has to do with the xl1, i really don't know anything about that, but as far as editing a 50mps stream on windows, it's coming...that is an important fact glee upon...

Robert,
You are absolutley right.
Sorry if I took your post in the wrong way.
I thought you were responding to something else.

I think I was having a different discussion on my own there for a second.

:)

-Luis

Laurence
 

HMM WHERE CAN I MEET THE JUAN FELLOW.... LOL i got my camer about a month and a half ago at mirco-center it was a open item i got a good deal on it with the 500 rebate... so i went ahead and bout the extended warranty. I love the camera. i would never wish harm upon it lol unless a new hd was in the way *snickers*

Fernando . . .

His name is Juan Perreria. He's creating some sort of mod on his dvx-100 to allow him to record the signal straight to a hard drive at 4:4:4 uncompressed 12 bit I think. It's under the "alternative imaging" topic heading and then the link i think is "uncompressed 12 bit 4:4:4 DVX-100".

Here's the direct web address:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20332

These guys are awesome. Wish I was as technically inclined.

Enjoy!

> When the production L-2 appeared for sale that Fall, it was the same mediocre L-1 with timecode, one more meaningless special playback effect and $1,000 added to its price. The bean-counters still ruled.

Actually, the L2 had a bit more beyond time code. An OIS lens was offerd as an option. The Hi8 format did support 4-channel, including a pair of 10-bit digital PCM audio tracks, but you needed a Sony EV-S7000 or similar deck to play in that arena. The CCD was an improved 470k pixel unit. Interval recording was dropped, but other additional playback features and datacode were added, sensitivity was improvd by 6 dB, and a digital wipe effect was added.

I don't know about you guys,
but I'm keeping my fingers crossed
that the new XL camera brings back
that incamera digital wipe effect!!
:)


ahhh...we can only dream.

-Luis

Dan Palomaki wrote:

>Actually, the L-2 offered a bit beyond
>timecode.

---------------------------------------

The OIS lens offered by Canon in 1993 for the VL camcorder series, was strictly an add-on item and could be used with the older L-1. The cheapest I ever saw it sold, until closeout time, was about $2,500. This was more than I had paid for an entire new L-1 kit, a few months earlier. It was also slow in its responses and not as good as the OIS that Canon and Sony put in their small camcorders. I doubt that more than a few of these lenses were sold.

There were rumors about the L-2 having an improved CCD, but when I talked to several people inside Canon, including some video engineers, they denied this. They all insisted that the CCD was the same as in the L-1, with 379K video-active pixels. Then, another rumor claimed that later production runs of the L-2 had a CCD with improved sensitivity, but the Canon people also denied this. I could see no improvement at all in footage from the L-2. Surely, if such an advance was being offered, they wouldn't have surpressed acknowledgement of its existence. My L-1 still works as well as ever, but its images are weak in color compared to Sony Hi-8 cameras of this era
and its white balance, both auto and manual, leaves much to be desired.

Both the L-1 and L-2 and the pro model LX100, were based on great ideas and developments. They had unprecedented features and controls for camcorders in their price range and are a real kick to use. But, factors based on marketing considerations, limited them from being produced in their best forms. The reputation and excitement about the VL series, that preceded its actual release for sale, was the highest point of its existence.

I have a Sony EV-S3000, a Hi-8 VCR with two extra digital audio channels. The quality of this digital audio, that was developed years before and used in a Sony 8mm VCR, is as mediocre as the analog Hi-Fi it also uses is excellent. It's actually recorded only as 8-bit tracks, although processed and output as a 10-bit signal. This level of digital audio just doesn't cut it for anything other than adding dubbed narration.

Now, when the XL2 comes out, it would be nice if thay would also have a 3D lens for it.

Mike

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Metken : Now, when the XL2 comes out, it would be nice if thay would also have a 3D lens for it.

Mike -->>>

Well, that would be nice, but it probably won't happen. There just isn't too much of a market for 3D-cinema...yet. I think it'll really start to kick off with those 3D LCD displays they're making, but until then, well...

But all in all, we'll just have to wait and see.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Metken : Now, when the XL2 comes out, it would be nice if thay would also have a 3D lens for it.

Mike -->>>

Since this is an Area 51 topic, shouldn't your post maybe have said something like:

"I have heard from impeccably reliable sources that the XL2 will definitely come standard with the 3D lens..."

[grin]

I don't think that end of rebate has anything to do with a new model introduction date. Rebates can run past that date or stop before. There may be additional rebates abd discounts later if the old model does not sells.

The old lenses will fit and it's probably HDV. Unless there is a new lens line, I don't think that the HDV performance will be anything spectacular. HDV is HDV. But the DV performance may be.

I'm cynical but I would be suprised if it was anything more than basically a DVX100a that could change lenses.

Aaron

Hey Ed,

I just noticed your post. Actually I have a friend who has seen a prototype of the more expensive Canon HD camera. Real nice. It does have 1/2" potatoes chips. A Sony killer. The lens stabilizer vibrates. The landlady next door loves that function. Says that her back hurts.

Mike

Aaron,

You forgot to mention that it has 8 channel sound. It records it on 8 track cartriges.

Mike

"I don't think that end of rebate has anything to do with a new model introduction date. Rebates can run past that date or stop before. There may be additional rebates abd discounts later if the old model does not sells."


Historically Canon's rebates have ALWAYS been tied to a new model introduciton date.

They definitley will not announce the new camera before the rebate ends, and they won' t wait long after it ends.

The new camera is replacing the slot the XL1s holds currently in Canons product line. It's not an addition. Looking at the way Canon has handled releases in the past, I think the rebate is a very clear indicator of what is ahead.

-luis

You're probably right. Canon is supposedly low on supplies and is limiting dealer quantities. Companies are normally very happy to supply any quantity to any dealer. Some big dealers are clearing the XL1s out. I guess the logic says that the new camera will be announced in July. I guess the rumor is true. There is another rumor at the Camcorderinfo forum that the camera will have excellent 16x9 24p performance and mediocre HDV. That makes sense too.

Just so you don't think you missed it... I did go around the Canon booth at InfoComm and did not see anything that would look like the new cameras.

Another sign that a replacement camcorder might be imminent is if the head man at the forum sells his old one???

[grin}

I was at my local video store here in Tulsa and noticed the XL1s was gone I happened to ask if the guy if he had heard anything from their Canon sales rep on a new version of the XL1s. I expected him to say that he hadn't but he actually said they are supposed to announce a new model in the next 60 days, when I asked for any details he said the rep didn't give any details other than that he gave the dealer a big smile.

I was thinking of posting on this when he told me last week but I am not big on rumors but the guy who I talked too I know well and he isn't the type who just says stuff like that. I can't wait to see if he is right and hopefully it will take back the market from the Pany and give us Canon users bragging writes again.

It's interesting that Canon's 3 top cameras have large rebates: XL1S, GL2, and the relatively new Optura Xi.

To top it off, the Optura Xi's tech is starting to move down the line to the other consumer offerings.

See you at DV Expo East in July!

George Ellis:

<< I did go around the Canon booth at InfoComm and did not see anything that would look like the new cameras. >>

You should have said hello! Don Berube and I were there behind the counter, it would have been great to meet you!

Actually there was a new DV camcorder in the booth, the Optura 500.

Chris, will you be at DV Expo East?
I won't be able to be there myself unfortunately, but I've got a few friends in NY (who I know are lurkers on the board here) who will be there.

Also...just out of curiosity and obviously not connected to anything mentioned in this thread....

does Canon usually announce a new camera before showing it off at a trade show, or do they just show up at shows and unveil it unannounced?


And lastly, what news can you give us on the rumored addition of that digital wipe effect?
:)

-Luis

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : George Ellis:

<< I did go around the Canon booth at InfoComm and did not see anything that would look like the new cameras. >>

You should have said hello! Don Berube and I were there behind the counter, it would have been great to meet you!

Actually there was a new DV camcorder in the booth, the Optura 500. -->>>

Durn. Sorry I missed you.

I think all the speculation about the next camera having HDV might be too optimistic/early. SD is still the standard and what most people want and need, plus that would leave a void in the marketing tier of cameras that canon offers which would be filled by the current panasonic and sony products. Probably what we will see is a replacement to the XL1 in a SD format that will compete with(blow away?) the competition It's too early in the game for canon to release a HD version, most software doesn't support true HDV editing yet, the standards have just been finalized, only the highest end customers know about HDV etc. Sony's projected release of their HDV camera isn't until the first of 2005. Canon will jump into HDV once the interchangeable HD lenses are cost effective,the HDV standards are more mature, more softwave supports HDV, more mass consumer demand to justify the development. and once some of the feature sets of the competition are more finalized. just my take on it all

I completely agree with you Michael. Canon will most likely create a new line of product for their HDV cams somewhere in 2005.

You brought up a good point, Michael. The new Xl camcorder can't have HDV, because HDV is too new for Canon to have possibly incorperated it. Well, actually, maybe they could have, especially if its true that they didn't start designing it untill last year.

What if/why couldn't it has/have both SD and HD? You know, it would/could have like 24p capable SD, regular SD, 720p HD, and 1080i HD. I think that would be neat. But hey, even a 24p camera from Canon would definitely be reason enough to get it. Interchangeable lenses and 24p? What couldn't it do! =D

If it has HD, even though the HD lenses are quite expensive nowadays, perhaps Canon would let lense options for this be for the higher end users and would have an industry lead in 3CCD HD, I mean, that's kind of what happened to the XL1S after awhile cough*P+S 35mm adapter*cough. Plus, it probably should last a loooooooooong time like the XL1S has, so Canon surely wouldn't be leaving itself out of the HD arena for the next 3-5 years, even if they had the best prosumer SD camera on the market and if HD wasn't truly supported by current NLEs. Overall, it's pretty confusing and pointless to speculate at this point so let's just try not to stir up any more heated debates or rumors, guys. (and especially myself ^_^)

But so far, we're all agreed on these things:
1. True 16x9
2. XL1S lense compatibility
3. High end SD or High end SD/HD performance
4. 24p SD (prolly not 24p HD)
5. Same body type
6. A new camera is definitely coming out to replace the XL1S!

Things we're not so sure about:
1. Color scheme (red and white or blue and white? All black?)
2. Better audio solution (something removable? Other?)
3. 24p HD
4. HD in general
5. B&W viewfinder
6. An LCD display
7. Digital wipes (some are wondering ^_^;;;)
8. Video output options (depends on whether HD or not)

Is that about it? Have I missed anything?

Actually Jack, I think the only thing we can all agree on is that a
new camera is coming out to replace the XL1s. At least, that is
the only thing that I am completely sure of.

Everything else still waits to be seen, and luckily we only have a
few weeks left before finding out everything there is to know.
The current rebate now expires in 2 1/2 weeks.

You do bring up a good point when it comes to HDV, because
that's the one feature I keep going back and forth on.

On the one hand, it does seem rather quick for Canon to come
out with an HDV camera. The spec was only agreed upon last
year.

On the other hand, Canon has a history of keeping their new
camera models around for 3-4 years, which makes me think they
would want HDV on the new XL camera. And, it seems Sony and
JVC have had enough time to put HDV models together (at least
prototypes), so I don't think it's unfeasible for Canon to have
designed an HDV camera in the same amount of time.

-Luis

I, for one (the only one?) don't know "for sure" what Canon is going to do, maybe because I've not signed a confidentiality agreement. So, with that in mind, I really can't "agree" with anyone about what the future might bring regarding Canon's camcorders. I suppose I can agree that sooner or later a new model will eventually be released... [g]

Speculation is heavily in favor of a "new model XL2" being released to replace the XL1/XL1S --- but, lacking any official announcements from Canon --- it is for now, merely speculation.

We've been so anxious to see a "new" XL1S, going so far as to make up long, long lists of suggested improvements, that many now believe that an earth-shaking upgrade is in the works...

But, what if the XL2(?) is "just" a minor upgrade to the XL1S --- maybe called the XL1S+ --- comparable to the improvements added between the original XL1 and the XL1S? Instead of HD maybe it will "only" do true 16x9 and/or "only" 24p and/or "only" add built-in balanced audio inputs, etc...

But, what I really don't understand (maybe someone will explain) is why anyone cares what its color scheme might be (red, white & blue stripes?), or if it will handle digital wipes...

Ed,

I can't speak for the color scheme...I could care less about that.

As far as the 'digital wipes' go, that was a joke in reference to the upgrades canon made from the L1 to the L2 Hi-8 cameras.
If you go back and read that part of the thread, hopefully it will become obvious that I was joking.

I don't want to become known as the guy that brought back the digital wipe.
:)

-Luis

Luis,

Ahhhhh, I see??? Actually I don't know anything about Canon's L1/L2 Hi-8 camcorders so the mistaken humor is all mine!

I promise I won't petition Canon for digital wipes on future models...

I was thinking that perhaps a nice mauve with cyan and yellow trim might work for a color scheme? You know, really help it stand-out and be noticed?

[grin]

== Ed ==

Wait wait wait, let's not be so quick todiss the whole digital wipe thing, Luis you woulfd be my hero if you brought back the digital wipe, oh and mosaic, man i miss mosaic.

I was told by my local retailer (not a mom and pop store) that the hdxl1s+2 would have a flip out lcd screen and 16x9 chips. I speculated that it would be dumb for a new camera to come out and not have some sort of HD capabilities but when I posted that on the xl2 wish list, Mr. Hurd quickly respooonded that there was still quite a market for a good SD camera.

That being said he could have just been tossing out somethign so as not to get the site in any NDA troubles.

I do agree that it doesn't matter a bit to me what color it is, because there's always paint lying aroundif you're not happy with the color.

I wonder if maybe the video monitoring options might be really limited if it is HD if only because I think they would do analog component before they would do HD-SDI and it just doesn't seem like there would be enough room on the camera (that size) for xlr inputs, a flip out lcd, component outputs, composite outputs, the canon logo, a place to put the tape, menu knobs...

I don't know I just wish the camera would hurry up and come out so I can stop getting my hopes up.

Thing is. If they bring out the new XL1s with the things most people have suggested in this thread, they're just basically doing a DVX100 (With HDV, ok it'd be different but I'm not convinced at all about HDV).

If they do just catchup to the others (DVX100 I'm specifically thinking about here) they're not really gonna steal market away and then I'm sure Panasonic will bring something out within a year WHAM, take the lead again. You don't want to play the catchup game, you will lose.

Hopefully they've talked to the people who use their cameras, and know what market they are after. News Types? Mum and Dad shooting the kids? Indy filmmaking? Porn makers?

They need something revolutionary (Like the DVX) if they want to really get into the game and control their sector of the market. Is it just me or is anyone else cynical about what Canon can really do in this area?


Aaron

I'm more curious than cynical.

The comments I've gotten from the people who seem to konw what they're talking about are things like:

"It's fuXXing phenomenal"
and
"this is very exciting"

People seem to be using words like 'revolutionary' and 'groundbreaking'


Now, i'm not saying I believe all of that.
But, my point is, whatever Canon has up their sleeve, I think THEY believe that it will secure them a big part of the market. And you're right, you can't secure market by playing 'catch up.'

Now the question is whether or not we will agree with Canon that the new camera is indeed revolutionary.

Only 2 1/2 weeks left.

-Luis

Many of those who have made wishful speculations about the "XL2" have mentioned 24p. Don't forget that the DVX100 also has 30p in NTSC models, along with 30i. For those who like the look of progressively-shot video, the 30p is much more useful, as it's smoother and has less of the jerkiness of 24p.

You could use 30p as an alternative for regular video footage and also have a source for very good video-captures for still pictures. As it is with my VX2100, I have to choose: shoot footage at a very jerky 15p for still pictures or in 30i for motion video. Having a true, full-resolution 30p, would be the biggest selling point for me of all the features of this new model that is hovering in the vapors. Even though it would be a Canon, this function, along with a choice of removeable lenses with powerful zoom capabilities, might move me to impoverish myself further to acquire one.

As for HDV, I'm not presently interested, until it is improved to a much higher level, in my range of affordability. In a few years, if HDV reaches a point where it's very good, has a full set of supporting systems and equipment for editing and making distribution copies, then I'll be inclined to embrace it. And a whole bunch of other people will have bought into it previously, if it's to be a practical format for me. I've already made my share of costly mistakes by being an "early-adopter". It's someone else's turn.

10 days left!!

This thread had been dead for so long, I figured no one had
anything to add. When I saw a new post, I thought, 'oh cool,
someone else with a new rumor on the features or release date.'

Instead I got the Casey Cassem Canon countdown.
:)

Why do I imagine Mark sitting at home looking at a calendar on
the wall that has each consecutive day crossed out with a
sharpie, with July 1st circled in bright red?

Oh wait, sorry, that's me that does that.



So, how about it? With 10 days left anyone heard any other news?


-Luis

10 days come and gone.. But I think we are close this time.

PS.

Actually, I drew a red STAR on July 1st!!!LOL :)

yes... I should of said "10 days will come and go"

Its not gonna be out (read announced) July 1st, but maybe you know something I dont :)