canon xl HD DV? at DVinfo.net

Simon Sekulovich · February 18th, 2005, 08:58 PM

Has anyone heard any rumblings about the possibility of Canon evolving its XL2 to some form of HD DV camera? The adjustable frame rates and personal settings options along with the changeable lenses platform would be interesting in an HD native 16:9 1080i or 720p camera. If so, any details... timelines, etc.?
Thanks.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 18th, 2005, 09:02 PM

Were there anyone "in the know" on this, they couldn't comment one way or another....Canon is a member of the HDV consortium, but that doesn't mean that they're rushing to put out a cam or anything.
HDV in a Canon XL format would indeed be nice, but realize that HD requires a whole different lens setup in addition to the CCD's.
It won't be a surprise if or when Canon comes out with a cam, but I don't believe there are any rumors, stories, or concrete bits of information about Canon and HDV right now.

Heath McKnight · February 18th, 2005, 09:29 PM

Canon doesn't show vaporware, like last year's NAB showing of the FX1 vaporware. So we'll see a Canon HDV camera when it comes out.

heath

Simon Sekulovich · February 18th, 2005, 09:47 PM

Thanks guys. I guess keeping us guessing is the sad truth for now.
Any tips on getting SD to approach the HD look, ie. lighting, framerates, gamas, etc?

Heath McKnight · February 18th, 2005, 09:52 PM

HD look? Well, I guess you could capture your footage in uncompressed 10 bit and do an uprez from 480i to 1080i and go from there. I've seen good and bad come from that. Make sure lighting, etc., is good.

I'll see if Jon Fordham can advise on this. He's had stuff on the DVX100A and DVCam go to HD. But it's a hardware thing to uprez it, and that can cost thousands of dollars.

heath

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 18th, 2005, 10:17 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Canon doesn't show vaporware, like last year's NAB showing of the FX1 vaporware. So we'll see a Canon HDV camera when it comes out.

heath -->>>

You lost me with this one....At NAB, Sony didn't show an FX1...they showed a body prototype of the Z1. FX'1's showing came later, and when Sony did finally announce the professional cam in June, it came out on target, shown in November for first time, and actually released a month early.

There was some confusion on where the cam (s) were going to live in the Sony lineup, and that may be why you're thinking the FX1 was what was in the glass at NAB?

Kevin Dooley · February 19th, 2005, 07:18 AM

I think the point is that while everyone else (JVC, Sony, and Panny) like to show off prototypes, and then have the cameras come out 6 months to a year or more latter, Canon likes to show a camera right as it's ready to ship.... No mockups from good ole Canon...

Bill Pryor · February 19th, 2005, 05:30 PM

We had a half hour short on Stan Brakhage shot with a DSR500 uprezzed to HD. Special Tribeca festival price was 80 bucks. I didn't see it but my partner did and he said it looked great.

Barry Green · February 19th, 2005, 07:50 PM

The question asked is: will canon evolve the XL into being an HDV camera?

It seems like the obvious answer is "yes", especially as Canon has publicly said that the XL2 would be their last standard-def camera in that line.

However, the next question is much more telling: WHEN? And here's where you may not like the answer... I'd bet it'd be years before there was an XL3 HDV model. Canon kept the XL1 on the market for three years, and the XL1s for three more years. The XL2's been on the market around half of one year. It will probably be a long, long time before there's a high-def XL2.

I do, however, expect to see a high-def GL-form camera soon. They've had a rebate on the GL2 for a long, long, long time... I fully expect that they'll hit us with an HDV GL3 type of camera, sooner rather than later.

It's all speculation, but given Canon's history, it seems reasonable...

Chris Hurd · February 19th, 2005, 08:54 PM

That's exactly the reply I would have made, Barry -- thanks for saving me the typing!

;-)

Heath McKnight · February 19th, 2005, 10:08 PM

Spot,

I meant Z1! <g> sorry for the confusion!

I second what Barry wrote!

hwm

Kevin Dooley · February 19th, 2005, 11:21 PM

Might as well chime in too-- I agree with Barry wholeheartedly. Canon is obviously working on HDV cameras, as they are part of the consortium and have made the statement about the XL2 being the last SD XL cam... But only an idiot, would come out with something like the XL2 and then 6 months later announce it's replacement... and if there's one thing I've learned in my time as an XL1(s) owner, it's that Canon's higher ups are definately not mentally incapaciated... It'll be interesting to see if there's an HDV GL3 anytime this year...

Pete Bauer · February 19th, 2005, 11:48 PM

I guess we're drifting off into Area 51 territory here, but I can't help myself...

I'm wondering if Canon will use the current HDV spec with the truly consumer cameras like ZR, Optura, Elura -- maybe including a "GL3", maybe not? Or perhaps use DV on those below the GL and make the GL an HDV cam to fill that square for the HDV consortium it signed up to. And either way, I wonder if they'll then go with a higher data rate (like the recently announced Panasonic we'll see sometime after April) for the "XL3".

Although I guess the XL is marketed out of the consumer division, everyone knows that it ain't Joe-Point-n-Shoot out there buying all those XL cameras; if there are 100mb/sec cameras out there in a similar price point (Panasonic!), Canon's going to have to respond in kind, I would assume. Wouldn't it be sweet to have an XL shooting 720p60 and 1080i at 100mb/sec?

Sadly, only time will tell. Any other W.A.G.s?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 19th, 2005, 11:55 PM

<<<if there are 100mb/sec cameras out there in a similar price point (Panasonic!), Canon's going to have to respond in kind, I would assume. Wouldn't it be sweet to have an XL shooting 720p60 and 1080i at 100mb/sec?

Sadly, only time will tell. Any other W.A.G.s? -->>>

This could only happen if Canon departed from the HDV group, or had a camera that could do all three modes; DV/HDV/DVCPro-HD. The consortium agreements are fairly well spelled out, I doubt they could technologically and/or have the marketability do all three. Especially if they're hitting a price point of the GL or XL, which are both in the realm of the Sony HDV cams but lower than the purported cost of the new Panny cam. Would surely be sweet, but then again, so would world peace and an end to starvation, trips to Venus on weekends, and clean streets in Tijuana. :-)
Then again, Area 51 is very close to Las Vegas, and NAB is in Vegas, so who knows??

Chris Hurd · February 20th, 2005, 12:33 AM

Hah! Great post, Spot.

I think the most grounded question to ask regarding Canon HDV is whether they'll do 720p or 1080i.

February 18th, 2005, 08:58 PM	#1
Simon Sekulovich Tourist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada Posts: 2	canon xl HD DV? Has anyone heard any rumblings about the possibility of Canon evolving its XL2 to some form of HD DV camera? The adjustable frame rates and personal settings options along with the changeable lenses platform would be interesting in an HD native 16:9 1080i or 720p camera. If so, any details... timelines, etc.? Thanks. __________________ simoseku

February 18th, 2005, 09:02 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Were there anyone "in the know" on this, they couldn't comment one way or another....Canon is a member of the HDV consortium, but that doesn't mean that they're rushing to put out a cam or anything. HDV in a Canon XL format would indeed be nice, but realize that HD requires a whole different lens setup in addition to the CCD's. It won't be a surprise if or when Canon comes out with a cam, but I don't believe there are any rumors, stories, or concrete bits of information about Canon and HDV right now. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 18th, 2005, 09:29 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Canon doesn't show vaporware, like last year's NAB showing of the FX1 vaporware. So we'll see a Canon HDV camera when it comes out. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 18th, 2005, 09:47 PM	#4
Simon Sekulovich Tourist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada Posts: 2	Thanks guys. I guess keeping us guessing is the sad truth for now. Any tips on getting SD to approach the HD look, ie. lighting, framerates, gamas, etc? __________________ simoseku

February 18th, 2005, 09:52 PM	#5
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	HD look? Well, I guess you could capture your footage in uncompressed 10 bit and do an uprez from 480i to 1080i and go from there. I've seen good and bad come from that. Make sure lighting, etc., is good. I'll see if Jon Fordham can advise on this. He's had stuff on the DVX100A and DVCam go to HD. But it's a hardware thing to uprez it, and that can cost thousands of dollars. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 18th, 2005, 10:17 PM	#6
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Canon doesn't show vaporware, like last year's NAB showing of the FX1 vaporware. So we'll see a Canon HDV camera when it comes out. heath -->>> You lost me with this one....At NAB, Sony didn't show an FX1...they showed a body prototype of the Z1. FX'1's showing came later, and when Sony did finally announce the professional cam in June, it came out on target, shown in November for first time, and actually released a month early. There was some confusion on where the cam (s) were going to live in the Sony lineup, and that may be why you're thinking the FX1 was what was in the glass at NAB? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 19th, 2005, 07:18 AM	#7
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	I think the point is that while everyone else (JVC, Sony, and Panny) like to show off prototypes, and then have the cameras come out 6 months to a year or more latter, Canon likes to show a camera right as it's ready to ship.... No mockups from good ole Canon... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

February 19th, 2005, 05:30 PM	#8
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	We had a half hour short on Stan Brakhage shot with a DSR500 uprezzed to HD. Special Tribeca festival price was 80 bucks. I didn't see it but my partner did and he said it looked great.

February 19th, 2005, 07:50 PM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The question asked is: will canon evolve the XL into being an HDV camera? It seems like the obvious answer is "yes", especially as Canon has publicly said that the XL2 would be their last standard-def camera in that line. However, the next question is much more telling: WHEN? And here's where you may not like the answer... I'd bet it'd be years before there was an XL3 HDV model. Canon kept the XL1 on the market for three years, and the XL1s for three more years. The XL2's been on the market around half of one year. It will probably be a long, long time before there's a high-def XL2. I do, however, expect to see a high-def GL-form camera soon. They've had a rebate on the GL2 for a long, long, long time... I fully expect that they'll hit us with an HDV GL3 type of camera, sooner rather than later. It's all speculation, but given Canon's history, it seems reasonable...

February 19th, 2005, 08:54 PM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	That's exactly the reply I would have made, Barry -- thanks for saving me the typing! ;-) __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 19th, 2005, 10:08 PM	#11
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Spot, I meant Z1! <g> sorry for the confusion! I second what Barry wrote! hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 19th, 2005, 11:21 PM	#12
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Might as well chime in too-- I agree with Barry wholeheartedly. Canon is obviously working on HDV cameras, as they are part of the consortium and have made the statement about the XL2 being the last SD XL cam... But only an idiot, would come out with something like the XL2 and then 6 months later announce it's replacement... and if there's one thing I've learned in my time as an XL1(s) owner, it's that Canon's higher ups are definately not mentally incapaciated... It'll be interesting to see if there's an HDV GL3 anytime this year... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

February 19th, 2005, 11:48 PM	#13
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	I guess we're drifting off into Area 51 territory here, but I can't help myself... I'm wondering if Canon will use the current HDV spec with the truly consumer cameras like ZR, Optura, Elura -- maybe including a "GL3", maybe not? Or perhaps use DV on those below the GL and make the GL an HDV cam to fill that square for the HDV consortium it signed up to. And either way, I wonder if they'll then go with a higher data rate (like the recently announced Panasonic we'll see sometime after April) for the "XL3". Although I guess the XL is marketed out of the consumer division, everyone knows that it ain't Joe-Point-n-Shoot out there buying all those XL cameras; if there are 100mb/sec cameras out there in a similar price point (Panasonic!), Canon's going to have to respond in kind, I would assume. Wouldn't it be sweet to have an XL shooting 720p60 and 1080i at 100mb/sec? Sadly, only time will tell. Any other W.A.G.s? __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

February 19th, 2005, 11:55 PM	#14
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	<<<if there are 100mb/sec cameras out there in a similar price point (Panasonic!), Canon's going to have to respond in kind, I would assume. Wouldn't it be sweet to have an XL shooting 720p60 and 1080i at 100mb/sec? Sadly, only time will tell. Any other W.A.G.s? -->>> This could only happen if Canon departed from the HDV group, or had a camera that could do all three modes; DV/HDV/DVCPro-HD. The consortium agreements are fairly well spelled out, I doubt they could technologically and/or have the marketability do all three. Especially if they're hitting a price point of the GL or XL, which are both in the realm of the Sony HDV cams but lower than the purported cost of the new Panny cam. Would surely be sweet, but then again, so would world peace and an end to starvation, trips to Venus on weekends, and clean streets in Tijuana. :-) Then again, Area 51 is very close to Las Vegas, and NAB is in Vegas, so who knows?? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 20th, 2005, 12:33 AM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hah! Great post, Spot. I think the most grounded question to ask regarding Canon HDV is whether they'll do 720p or 1080i. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!