Mike,
This is very conventional. You chose "Create Chapters" from the menu I have attached as the first jpeg below, and once the new screen appears, you then either:

scrub the timeline manually and add chapters using the left green button shown in the 2nd jpeg

or

scan the time line automatically to detect scene changes / add chapters using the right green button.

Larry

Better view of chapter add buttons

Peter,

Thanks for the SVRT description. Also to answer your earlier question, both movie and AVCHD disk production result in the same content and quality, and one is not in any way I am aware of rendered differently.

Now....regarding both of your videos...let me tell you exactly what I am seeing here on a very fast quadcore with a very capable video card and a very high quality 1920 by 1080 Samsung display 26 inch:

Your PD7 rendered clip looks extremely crisp, equal to the quality of the HF100, and very much the same quality video I get from my HF100 from PD7. I see ABSOLUTELY NO PIXELLATION WHATSOEVER, and the only artifacts which detract from the true scene are those produced by the AVCHD encoder in your camcorder being (as is mine and all of the others in HF100s) slightly overwhelmed by fast horizontal pans through very detailed and highly complex material, specifically the roof shingles and to a lesser extent the tree branches. The sky and grass do not exhibit any blocking, pixellation, or other evidence of degredation that I can detect.

When I view your second video, I see a less detailed image with lots of detail no longer being displayed, with noticeable smearing of fine detail. In engineering terms it is called "low pass filtering", and looks like re-rendered mpeg.

I placed your first video into my favorite AVC/h.264 editor, TMPGE Express 4 latest version, which is as good as I have found for frame / GOP examination of AVC content, and stepped through manually to examine GOPs / frames, just to confirm that the rendered video was not exhibiting any breakups, macroblocks, or other indications of failure. I do not see any.

If it would ease your mind, tell me a specific time into your first video where you see this problem and I can do a frame grab which should demonstrate to you that the video content is entirely intact and correct, at least as I am seeing it here.

I certainly hope that others will download both of your videos and offer their comments as well. I must admit that my eyes are not great, and it is late in the day, so I may be missing something.....

My sincere and honest opinion is that your computer is just being overloaded, and frankly, I am not surprised. It needs to be more than a 2 core AMD from 2006 vintage, with more RAM and a faster bus, video card, etc.

If you have a true BluRay player which handles AVCHD or a PS3, why not author a disk and see what you find using this playback method? I am guessing your pixellation issue will disappear.

Larry

By the way Peter, the doggie is adorable......

I am a huge dog lover..... (-:

Peter,

I have a way of showing you very clearly what your pixellation issue really is:

I have done a frame grab on your two videos at about 14 seconds into the movies, and have selected a very small (approx 26 pixel wide) region of the frame which corresponds to the small rectangular house numbering to the immediate left of the front door of the home shown in your videos.

The home numbering in the PD7 output retains some amount of detail, and the more detailed delineation between the 3 digits and the background is roughly visible in the PD7 frame.

In the other JPEG, using the same frame and same selected region, the details of the 3 digit numbering are entirely dropped / smeared / blurred.

This effect occurs across all of the 2nd video, which, I stated earlier, has been "low pass filtered" / blurred in detail.

The important thing for your to know and recognize is that the REMOVAL OF DETAIL ALLOWS YOUR underpowered system to display the 2nd video without any hesitation, but the more correct and much more detailed image OVERWHELMS YOUR SYSTEM producing the pixellation complaint.

The bottom line is that you MUST effectively downrez your AVCHD content in order for it to play properly.

Your computer / player can either drop frames, lower the frame rate, or drop resolution, or some combination of these 3 things in order for you to see something which seems to be smooth and free of pixellation. This is NOT the proper way to judge and view the content, and you must SPOIL the video in order to see it.

I hope this gives you better insight into what is taking place.

Best,

Larry

Excellent analysis, Larry. Thanks! I will definitely try to author an AVCHD disk and play both versions of the file on my friend's PS3.

I never would have imagined that lower quality video can look better on a slow system than higher quality video! I also thought that a slow system would show the same pristine quality in a video, but would merely stutter a bit on playback (ie. a slide-show affect, but where I assumed each "slide" would be of perfect quality).

Actually, I guess it would be easier to write the AVCHD back to the HF100, then I can see it for myself on my own tv.

Peter,

Seeing the results on a good 1920 by 1080 HDTV or monitor using a PS3 or a BluRay player will clearly and decisively show the differences. While I was in an earlier stage of HD disk authoring making HD DVDs, I would go to the local BestBuy store armed with disks to check them out.

Writing back to the HF100 is a bit trickier. I have had no problems using Nero Vision, which creates .MTS files, to make compatible files which my HF100 recognizes and plays exactly as if they were recorded on the HF100. The .m2ts files from Power Director, Video Studio X2 Pro, ArcSoft, and Vegas don't work. The "container" used in .m2ts is apparently different enough that the HF100 does not know how to read it. Perhaps the Power Director .m2ts file can be merely renamed to .mts and the HF100 will accept it. I have not fooled with this yet. NONE of the programs have a "write to camcorder" feature for AVCHD so the file needs to be dragged onto the SD card into the STREAM folder of an already created card.

The player and codec you are using for AVCHD/h.264 gracefully degrades, and therefore appears to trade resolution for frame rate, a perfectly reasonable design. The remaining mystery to me is why original .mts files straight from your HF100 apparently play without this "pixellation" effect whereas those output by Power Director do. If your system were truly unable to handle this format, then both should have what you are calling pixellation problems.

There is absolutely no doubt that your "Nero then VX2" video is dramatically lower in resolution than the PD7 output, but perhaps the PD7 file has some difference in its header or packet structure which your computer cannot process as easily versus the original footage. Not entirely sure.

By the way, the images I attached showing the house number were apparently downsampled by this forum's software, making the clarity of both of them suffer.

In the original images, the PD7 output appears to show either a "941" or "961" for the house number while the Nero to VX2 essentially shows nothing. It is remarkable to be that a 26 pixel wide crop from your original PD7 frame grab seems to reveal this absolutely miniscule detail rather well......

Larry

I've attached your two cropped frame captures as a zip file so that this forum software does not degrade the jpegs. The differences are a bit more obvious and striking when you see these jpegs.

Larry

Well, my screen looks different:

What would you like to do?

Make DVD
Make CD
Record Directly to Disc
Make Movie
Make Slide Show
Capture Video to Hard Drive
Disc Tools
Open Saved Project or Disc Image

I just downloaded the latest download and everything is the same. So where is the screen like the one you showed?

Thanks
Mike

Mike,
When Nero is started / launched, the first screen allows you to chose Make DVD-->AVCHD.

When the next screen appears, I see the following image as shown in the first attached jpeg. At this screen, the Make Chapter item at the bottom of the list is present but grayed out.

If I then select and open a video file, the Add Chapters item is no longer grayed out and allows chaptering.

Have you purchased and installed the optional $20 HD pack for Nero. If so, it does not appear to be activated.

If it were activated, the menu you provided to me should look like the 2nd attached file below.

Larry

Larry, is this after the initial screen; the welcome to Nero screen, where I would normally choose "create and edit" ?

OK I went ahead through the next two screens and selected Make DVD/AVCHD. When the next screen appeared, all the selections beneath the preview window were greyed out. I guess that means I need to get the HD pack. Can I get that through Nero online?

Mike

See:

Nero - Support - Nero 8 - Plug-ins

Mike,

This is my very first initial screen of Nero Vision 5. Is yours different?

Mike,

I am not sure how you can purchase the HD pack presently. I routinely buy and upgrade most programs when new releases come out, and bought this plugin a couple years ago for Nero 7. It continued to work for Nero 8, which I am now using.

I went to their website but it does not appear to be for sale presently. Perhaps it is and I just cannot find it. It is my impression that the latest Nero 9 may possibly include this HD stuff at no extra chrage but not entirely sure.

Are you using Nero 8 or Nero 9? I assume you have the Ultimate version.

Larry

I have the Nero 9 version. I just purchased the Blu-ray Authoring Plug-in. Maybe this is what I needed. Too late now if it isn't.

Mike

Yes. It does not have Make Blu-ray Disc, Make HD DVD Disc.
Mike

You should be all set now Mike!

Thanks Larry for your time and your efforts.

MIke

Glad to help you Mike!

Larry, hopefully this is my last question. Is there a way to move the titles on the screen so that they are not in the middle of the video picture?

Thanks,
Mike

Not exactly Mike, at least not that I am aware of.

A partial workaround may be to insert spaces into the title string to shift the start location, spread the spacing of the title, or possibly expand the line spacing. Not remotely as nice as the precise title controls in the better titlers, but worth a try.

Larry

BTW.....check out BluffTitler, a super titler which makes very cool 1920 by 1080 totally animated, antialiased 3D and 2D titles. Dirt cheap, extremely fast, same particle effects, lighting controls, compositing, font controls as Adobe After Effects for about a tenth the cost.

Mike,
Has the HD plugin solved your problem, and how are your experiences with Nero so far?
Larry

Don't know yet. Have been so busy doing other things, have not had the time. Will have later today. Will post then as to whether I have solved my problem or not.

I am not comfortable with Nero yet. But am getting more used to it as time goes on. I will tell you, Pinnacle and Corel are easier to use with each programs screens and layouts much more user friendly and complete. I really don't like the title tool on Nero. It places the title right in the middle of the screen and that is very annoying. The other programs allow you to position the titles wherever you want them. Less tools in other areas also. And of course there is the chapter/menu thing, which I will find out if it is resolved or not later today. But the sound and picture produced are great in AVCHD.

One more question for you. Can I download my friends HDV footage from his FX7, combine that footage with my AVCHD footage, and produce an AVCHD DVD?

Thanks.
Mike

Mike

Boy Larry, don't know what I did, but when trying to burn an AVCHD DVD of my footage, it came out all jittery. Yes, obviously the download I did, did bring up the screens that you showed earlier. So how come the jitters?

Thanks
Mike

Mike,

To answer your prior question, you should be able to mix HDV and AVCHD on the timeline, but I have not recently tried it with the latest updates and revisions / patches so each of the programs may behave differently. I did this often when I was transitioning from my HV20 to the HF100 and found no problems generally, except for re-rendering of HDV, which is unavoidable under the circumstances.

Regarding the Nero interface, it is unquestionably less elegant and rich compared to the other NLEs. Nero Vision is just one of 8 programs you get for (as low as) $39 so I am not ever going to tell you it is a direct competitor in terms of features with, let's say, Corel at twice the price or Pinnacle at 3 times the price. What I (and many others) have been saying is that it makes superb looking AVCHD high def disks with very attractive 2D and 3D animated menus extremely quickly. The titling is weak, as are some other features, which is why I do not use it all the time, but instead have a few programs, know their strengths and weaknesses, and use the one which fits the job. Not unlike having a few different wrenches or screwdrivers to fit the job......... As my posts have revealed, I am more a jack of all trades than a master of a single NLE......

Regarding the jitter, I assume you have a fast quadcore, and that this jitter is a new problem since the HD BluRay plugin was installed? Are your AVCHD camcorder files being Smart rendered or rerendered? You can tell this during the burn step if the 100% for video and audio is displayed.

Larry

Thanks Larry.
Don't know what was going on with the jitter. Yes, the jitter is a new problem. I did not have the problem before the HD download. And I do have a pretty fast quadcore.
As for smart rendering or rerendering, I don't know. So if it says 100% during the burn step, then that means what?

Mike

PS Earlier, I got Corel for a month to try it out. On the test DVD (AVCHD) I made, the picture is very, very good, but the sound is not near as good as what I have on Nero. Could that be because it was a trial download?

Mike,

I am trying to find out if the jitter results from Nero re-rendering your camera clip(s) or if the original clips are being passed through without re-rendering (since they were Smart Rendered).

As the attached screen capture shows, Nero tells you if it is doing Smart render on the audio and video on the final page (where you burn the AVCHD disk or file). Note the 100% audio and video for the sample I have attached. This is a Smart Rendered situation.

Regarding the sound difference between Corel and Nero:

Both keep the original audio without re-rendering unless you chose to modify them by adding more audio, changing the audio levels, converting the camera's Digital Dolby 2.0 to Digital Dolby 5.1, etc. I am guessing that you may have Corel set to convert the audio to 5.1 whereas Nero defaults to using the unmodified Digital Dolby 2.0 straight from the camcorder without re-rendering it. This could make the Corel 5.1 sound inferior. I do not believe that the Corel trial audio is any different from the purchased product.

Larry

Thanks Larry.

Just got home. Tomorrow I will take a look at that screen you had. Thanks for the information. Hopefully tomorrow when I try again, the jitters will be gone. I will let you know what my screen is saying, and also, how my second try comes out.

So I take it that because I may have had Corel set to 5.1, that was the cause of the inferior sound. So should I have just left things as they were? IF I decide to get Corel again, this time purchasing the product, I will have to remember that.

Mike

Mike,

Not knowing how you have both programs configured, it's really hard to guess why audio from one sounds better than the other. I believe that if both Nero and Corel are used in the default mode, the audio should NOT be re-rendered, and should pass from the camcorder clip(s) to the output AVCHD file / disk unchanged. Perhaps Corel is set to create 5.1 audio by default but I doubt it. I am assuming you are using a Canon HF10/100, both of which create Dolby 2.0 audio. (Some Sony camcorders create 5.1)

Let me know what your situation is regarding audio, jitter, etc. and I will try to help. The major concern immediately is whether you are re-rendering or not.

Larry

It seems as if I am not re-rendering. At least according to that one screen. My second try turned out great. As for my camcorder, I am using a Sony SR11.

I have a theory as to why I got the jitters the first time. I had included some footage that was edited and rendered from Pinnacle, along with the footage added straight to Nero. I wonder if Nero had to re-render those first shots from Pinnacle and then continued re-rendering all the additional shots. How does that theory sound?

Anyway, my second try looks much improved. There is nothing like the sound of a big steam engine starting up, with the low frequencies booming through the house. Not to mention the crystal clear picture of all the steam and smoke.

Mike

All sounds good Mike, and I think your theory may be correct, but really not sure. Nero 'should' re-render in such a way that the resulting video does not jitter, but taking output from Pinnacle and using it in Nero may have some weird issues I have not encountered.

I have basically tossed Pinnacle 12 Ultimate, even though I just bought it for over one hundred bucks. It makes ugly disks, takes forever on a quadcore 3.0GHz to render, and crashes left and right. Wish they had offered a trial to spare me and others a lot of wasted time and money. NEVER AGAIN will I buy their junk.

Let me know if I can help you in any way. And be sure to check out Nero's animated 2D menus as well as their 3 D menus. They are very cool.

Larry

Thanks Larry.
As for Pinnacle, the 12 has not crashed on me yet (knock on wood) and despite a somewhat inferior picture, it does have a very intuitive and user friendly interface. I only wish that Nero were as easy and loaded with useful features (like putting titles wherever you want on a screen).
And yes, I have checked out the various menus. They are cool, but a bit corney in some instances.

Thanks again Larry.
Mike

Glad to help Mike. Some of Nero menus are definitely 'over the top'. Surprisingly, they have some customization available to modify / add backgrounds, change effects, etc. Nero's real strength is the extremely fast Smart Encoding and the resulting extra crisp and details results. Sure wish Pinnacle had that, as I especially like Pinnacle's new Montage and slide show features, except for the smeared re-rendered results.

Good luck with the new AVCHD stuff!

Larry

Thanks Larry for all your help. I really appreciate it all.
More projects to do in the coming days. Will keep you informed of my progress and of any problems or questions.

Respectfully,
Mike

Video Studio X2 Pro Patch to fix "blip" problem
 

Glad to help Mike!

Since Peter Holzel and others have encountered a nasty bug in Corel Video Studio X2Pro which creates a short "blip" at the splice where clips, transitions, and some other effects are joined, a patch has been unofficially posted on a user forum which apparently solves the problem for some but not all users.

I repeat this posting with the caveat that this is both unofficial as well as (apparently) only a partial fix, since AVCHD files from some brands / models of camcorders may not work yet even if the patch is installed.

Here it is:



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
ftp://private.ulead.com.tw/VSX2PROPATCH.exe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



I am hoping that Peter continues to read this thread and downloads the patch. I am also curious to hear how his PS3 experiments have come out.

Please do not question me as to how this patch works, when it works, etc. I am merely a messenger here, trying to help other users.

Larry

For whatever reason, was unable to download. Thats OK since I don't own the program yet. By the time I get it, perhaps things will be OK.

Thanks Larry.

Mike

Some firewalls and / or other security software prevents FTP transfers.

Mike, since you have a quad core, could you please take a look at the two files I produced using:
1) Power Director
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

2) Nero then VSX2
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

I am still struggling with why file 1 looks to me so much worse than file 2, whereas Larry claims the exact opposite. If my Pixela AVCHD looks fine on my computer, and my VSX2 AVCHD looks fine (except for the blips), and a clip straight from the flash card looks fine, then why doesn't my PD AVCHD look okay?

This weekend I will try playing the AVCHD disk I made with PD on my friend's PS3. When I play it on my computer, I still see the artifacts, so I will let you guys know if the PS3 produces artifacts. According to Larry's theory, it shouldn't.

Peter,

I share your concern on this contradiction, and voiced the point to you originally earlier in this thread. It does not make sense to me that your original camcorder clip plays smoothly and without any jerky qualities yet the Cyberlink Power Director output clip doesn't.

Moreover, it doesn't make sense to me why your vintage 2006 AMD dual core machine with a relatively slow processor plays AVCHD so well. I have never been able to get AVCHD to play smoothly on any machines except those with fast processors, quadcores in particular.

Hopefully Mike has some more insights.

I think the cropped frame grabs I previously posted on this thread from your 2 clips demonstrated the observations I offered, and made very obvious the fact the the first Cyberlink output clip had plenty of detail down to an absolutely tiny (26 pixel wide) number sign on the front of a house with 3 digits, each only a few pixels wide, whereas the re-rendered clip had lost entirely the details and was lower resolution by a significant degree. Whether this truly explains what is going on with your system in playback is another matter. My theory continues to be that your older system will only play down-rezed / re-rendered AVCHD, and will run into problems with full 1920 by 1080 detailed video.

I find your first (Power Director) clip to play absolutely smoothly here with no jerkiness and with full details evident, whereas the 2nd clip with less details plays smoothly as well.


Let's see how Mike makes out.

Also, Peter have you tried the patch, and has it fixed your VX2 issue?

Larry