Canon HG 21 or Sony SR11 for EX1 B-cam

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Charles Dasher

My Costco did not have the HG20/21 nor did BB.

I found the same -- none of them in stock. They also don't have the Sony HDR-HC9 which I'm interested in. Why?

Unlike the SR, it has shutter-speed control. It has a real LANC jack. HDV means EZ editing on any computer. Like HDCAM, its CMOS ClearVid chip is 1920x1080 although it records 1440x1080. Looking at its manual it seems the "tricks" I developed for the SR will still work. (And at 1/30, it may record 1080p30.)

But, with CES a few months away -- I'm not sure it makes sense to buy now. If the HDR-HC9 got one more revision with EXMOR chips it would be great. Likewise, an HV40 from Canon.

[Dave Blackhurst]

I would be surprised if Sony does any more "upgrades" in the consumer space that are tape based (then again, I am surprised they failed to answer the HMC150 in the prosumer range...). Canon, who is probably selling HV30's a lot better than Sony is the HC9, which is almost invisible in the retail/resale channel, MIGHT update the HV30, but since the update from HV20 to HV30 was pretty minimal...

I think there was an announcement of an improved low light CMOS design about a year ago now, so maybe the sensor blocks will be improved, but "tape is dead, long live tape" is probably the line now... at least for the consumer end of things.

I think it's notable that NEITHER major brand has kept the sensor blocks updated when compared to the AVCHD/tapeless cameras - that's where their R&D is going.

The LANC interface is there on the SR11/12, and works with any Sony sport pack housing (which have used the LANC interface in the "D" shaped A/V jack for a while now), which for the OP is a consideration. Editing ANY HD is going to require a fairly fast machine, and AVCHD isn't THAT much more difficult, once you get the hang of it (about the same learning curve as HDV was... and the software is getting better over time).

Certainly it WOULD be nice for Sony to bring back an interface allowing the advanced user to better control the camera - it's nothing but software, as the "auto" features of the camera control the shutter speed and aperature functions, they just don't let the end user at them... would it be so hard to have "EASY", normal, and ADVANCED user interfaces?? Or at least make the "normal" interface a few IQ points more complex??

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

The LANC interface is there on the SR11/12, and works with any Sony sport pack housing (which have used the LANC interface in the "D" shaped A/V jack for a while now), which for the OP is a consideration.

Or at least make the "normal" interface a few IQ points more complex??

There is a LANC port, but without an expensive converter box one can't plug-in most LANC devices.

AVCHD requires 6X-8X more computing power than does HDV. Way beyond any typical PC or Mac. People confuse playing AVCHD with editing AVCHD. Editing means CC, filters, and multiple streams for transitions, compositing, and keying. None of the major NLEs support native AVCHD editing -- while they all support native HDV.

Sony has announced profits will drop 57%. Yet they continue to ALLOW Canon to own the consumer market. It would only take a bit of firmware to add the IQ we want.

Same thing with Bravia HDTVs. They fail critical tests. Samsung HDTVs pass these tests. Again only firmware difference since they have the same "glass." Sony seems to "hold back" functions to push folks toward the high-end. But, it seems not to be working for them.

PS: The HV30 is sooo ugly.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Same thing with Bravia HDTVs. They fail critical tests. Samsung HDTVs pass these tests.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those two brands used the same panels...?

[Chris Soucy]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Again only firmware difference since they have the same "glass." Sony seems to "hold back" functions to push folks toward the high-end. But, it seems not to be working for them.

The glass is only as good as the signal going to them, is my guess.

But hey, what do I know?


CS

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those two brands used the same panels...?

They use the same glass (panels) and folks thought Sony would have the best electronics. But Samsung seems to have come-up rapidly with top notch electronics. (For the last few years, Samsung has filed far far more patents than Sony.)

Two decades ago when I was working in Asia, including Korea, the Koreans were DETERMINED to beat the Japanese. It seemed hard to imagine this at the end of the `80s, but they are now reaching their goal. An amazing country-wide effort.

Plus they shoot wonderful historical dramas on 1080i60 video. :)

PS: When I sold a supercomputer to Sony R&D in the late `80s, Sony was going to use it to process millions of SD and HD pixel maps -- of the same image -- to learn *how* SD pixel patterns relate to HD pixel patterns. Sony came out with Digital Reality V1. They claimed it converted SD to HD, not by scaling, but by "picking" the correct HD pixels to output based upon SD pixels input. Their system used a huge look-up memory rather than a very high-speed processor. Very clever for the time.