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-   -   Panasonic Announces HDC-SD1 AVCHD Camcorder (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/avchd-format-discussion/79187-panasonic-announces-hdc-sd1-avchd-camcorder.html)

Guy Bruner December 12th, 2006 07:19 PM

I've been viewing some AVCHD clips shot with the HDC-SD1 and it is difficult to get playback with some software. I use Nero 7 to view the Sony M2TS files but it locks up with the Panasonic MTS/M2TS files (don't know the difference yet). However, Windows Media Player 11 will play back both the Sony and Panasonic clips with no problems. I'm using an Intel E6300 Core 2 Duo system with 3GB/sec drives.

However, the video I've seen looks very good. I'm waiting to see some intimate lighting footage, but the low light shots I've seen so far are better on the Panasonic. Need more examples before I can say for sure it is significantly better.

I can say I'm disappointed with the features on the SD1. It has an enclosed battery, no EVF, no headphones jack (although it provides a headphones adapter for the AV port), no accessory shoe and only shoots 1080i video. I was expecting more from Panasonic at the $1500 level. After all, the DV953 just about killed the Sony TRV950 when it came in under $1500 a few years ago.

Jerry Jones December 12th, 2006 09:48 PM

Consultant Tore Nordahl -- in August -- wrote an opinion piece.

http://tinyurl.com/vfgn3

His comment:

"Look for new semi-professional AVCHD models selling for as little as $3,000 from Panasonic."

Anybody heard anything to support this statement?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Guy Bruner December 12th, 2006 10:47 PM

I've now seen some intimate lighting video clips from the HDC-SD1 and they are impressive. Better quality than the Sony clips I have seen and at lower light levels. I'm really looking forward to reviewing this camcorder.

Wayne Morellini December 12th, 2006 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Jones
His comment:

"Look for new semi-professional AVCHD models selling for as little as $3,000 from Panasonic."

Anybody heard anything to support this statement?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

When talking to the local camera store one of the bosses to me of a range of HD Hard drive camcorders next year, but I am unsure wherever he meant JVC or Panasonic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner
I can say I'm disappointed with the features on the SD1. It has an enclosed battery, no EVF, no headphones jack (although it provides a headphones adapter for the AV port), no accessory shoe and only shoots 1080i video. I was expecting more from Panasonic at the $1500 level...

Or a $499 level camera.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc Saint-Elie
Hello,

The results ar rather good. I've been immensely disappointed by Sony AVCHD that provides good images by good light but has a high, too high, far too high noise level as soon s the light goes down
It's not a measurement -like advice, just my eyes advice but Panasonic noise level seem much much better
By good light the images are surprisingly good.

I think its a rather good camera probably better then the Sony
Luc


So, guys, how does it compare to HDV cameras like the HC1 or MV10 for noise, latitude, low light and picture quality?

How does the camera compare to this following example. I got to test an HC3 in store the other day. There was a lot of noise, in the well lit store, latitude was not spectacular, but not bad either. It was through HDMI to an HD panel, and I could see the noise evident even looking at a bright grey panel. So noise level was high. I have a theory that when colors are filmed the noise from the sensor pads that do not register that colour well adds to the noise of the pixel. On the HC3, areas of pure primary color had very high noise, even though they were bright. Complementaries were much less noise, and whites had none discernible. The same thing is visible on the Sanyo HD1 too.


Thanks

Wayne.

Cliff Gilmour January 11th, 2007 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Jones
There appears to be a component output.

Take a second look at the photos.

"The new Panasonics include HDMI terminals, as well as AV and component jacks."

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

The Japanese version uses the D-Terminal component cable. Is there anyone who knows where I could buy a component cable for the HD SD1 for usage in Europe/USA , i.e. red green blue rca plugs?

Jerry Jones January 28th, 2007 01:40 PM

SimplyDV review conclusion:

"The (Panasonic) HDC-SD1 is an excellent solid-state 3CCD device that currently sets the benchmark for tapeless high definition video camera technology in the consumer market."

"When tested alongside the Sony HDR-SR1 (and pointing at exactly the same subject whilst viewing on identical HD monitor screens), the pictures were markedly better than the Sony's - especially in the more lowly lit sectors of the screen."

"The Sony's images featured quite high levels of rectangular blockiness whereas the SD1's (and DX1's) equivalent images were beautifully clear and well rendered."

"The differences weren't just mildly worthy of note, they were immediately apparent - even to the untrained eye."

Link to SimplyDV Web site review: http://tinyurl.com/ysbw53

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Paulo Teixeira February 11th, 2007 03:02 PM

Here is another positive review about this camcorder. Itís good but like the SimplyDV review it doesnít compare the picture quality to HDV camcorders and Iím going to have to disagree about this part:

ďThere are also options for manual focus, white balance, aperture as well as soft skin mode and tele macro. In other words, more than enough tweaks for 99 percent of the camcorder users out there.Ē

In other words, only one percent of users will complain about the camcorder not having a focusing ring around the lens. Iím certain the percentage is higher than that especially for someone paying at least 1000 dollars for a camcorder.

http://i4u.digitaltrends.com/review4333_main21673.html

Paulo Teixeira February 11th, 2007 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Jones
Consultant Tore Nordahl -- in August -- wrote an opinion piece.

His comment:

"Look for new semi-professional AVCHD models selling for as little as $3,000 from Panasonic."

Anybody heard anything to support this statement?

Sorry for being 2 months late but I also read that several months ago and although he sounds reliable, I earnestly think he got that rumor from me.

Here is another quote from him
http://www.freshdv.com/2006/08/will-...sional-hd.html

“I expect Panasonic to announce a HVX200-type camcorder with AVCHD CODEC and mini-Blue-ray Disc recording, in addition to SecureDigital and/or P2 soon. Panasonic badly needs a semi-professional HD camcorder line-up by end of 2006, not to lose market share.”

Almost word for word, this sounds very similar to what I wrote either on this board or camcorderinfo. I don’t feel like going back but believe me, this isn’t a joke.

I literally made that up back then. I also said that Sony may release a Z1u type camcorder with Blu-Ray disc drive as well.


I still would love to see my rumors becoming true!

Jerry Jones February 14th, 2007 08:17 PM

Tore Nordahl's latest column on this subject is interesting: http://www.coax.tv/

But Nordahl's most interesting comment, in my humble opinion, had to do with Grass Valley's new "Infinity" pro camcorder, which can utilize the JPEG 2000 codec.

A lot of people in the pro community have wondered about the Infinity's native pixel matrix.

I think NAB in Vegas is going to be especially interesting this year.

Jerry Jones

Paulo Teixeira February 14th, 2007 09:27 PM

Based on my original prediction back then it would have been a DVX100 type camcorder with Blu-Ray and SD memory card recordings so you can move footage from one place to another. The price would be around 3500.

Anyway if Panasonic releases a camera with AVC intra 50, it would guarantee be a HVX200 replacement and being priced at 3 to 4 thousand dollars would be pretty low. 4,500 to 5,000 seams more likely when you consider the price of the Canon XH-A1 and the HVX200.

In reality, Sony is more likely to release a Z1u type camcorder with Blu-Ray than Panasonic releasing a HVX type camcorder with Blu-Ray. But then again, a lot of people would complain if Sony abandons tape.

I have a new idea for a camcorder that I believe Panasonic would be interested in. They should use something like this for a DVC30 replacement. http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63051 It wouldn’t be too expensive to implement since it has a price tag of around 600 dollars. Because Panasonic was able to squeeze three ¼” CCDs into the SD1, they could probably squeeze either CCDs or CMOS chips as big as 1/3.5” and still be around the size of the DVC30. On top of that they should allow you to transfer your footage to SD cards. If they did all that and priced it at around 2,500 to 3,000, it will be an extremely popular item.

If only I gave Panasonic that idea several months ago, because we would have been seeing a camcorder like that at NAB.



If you think about, if Panasonic looses the tape drive of the HVX200, they could easily make the chips bigger than 1/3” and/or add more P2 card slots.

Paulo Teixeira February 19th, 2007 07:27 PM

Here are some videos of the SD1
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4k2gD6BrPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGCHhg15WFo&NR
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=avchd&hl=en

Peter Jefferson February 20th, 2007 04:38 AM

one of the biggest selling points of the HVX was the fact taht it does DV, DVCpro25/50, DVCproHD 720 and 1080i...
its this formatting flexibility which makes teh camera so powerful, and the most versatile with regard to cross relations with other studios, be they commercial or private or broadcast

Now with this proven workflow of the P2, plus the coming of this new camera and its particualr recording format, i really wouldnt be surprised if pana decide to ditch the tape deck of the next HVX altogether and opt for an SD array (much like the SPX P2 array)

it would be cheaper, more efficient, definately much more robust and of course, lighter.. and retaining those P2 slots would guarantee that the unit can continue to offer these professionally accepted formats (by professional i mean BROADCAST STUDIO.. ON AIR... ) as well as cater for the "semi" pro formats such AVCHD... DV will be long gone soon enough as HDV (and its AVCHD equivalent) becomes the norm

As for editing, even the gruntiest machine have trouble, so IMO, it would be wise for the manufacturers, to at least offer some insight into hardware decoding. Obviously, they can encode in realtime (as proven by the cameras existance), so theres no reason why they cant decode in realtime either...

Either way, all this is moot and remains to be seen as these formats are still fledglings...

only time will tell

Aaron Tinling February 21st, 2007 02:38 AM

SD1 available now in Seattle area
 
Just picked one up tonight at Circuit City at South Center (they had two or three more on the shelf). Haven't had a chance to decode and look at any footage yet, but it's a neat little cam. Manual settings require some menuing around, but there's WB, shutter, iris, etc. Found an 8 gig SDHC card at Fry's for $129, and it seems to work just fine.

I'll post a little more after I get a chance to really play. Shouldn't this cam get a forum or something?

Aaron
www.navagear.com

Scott Muhlbaier February 21st, 2007 06:40 PM

My sentiments exactly....
 
This unit has been at CC for a couple weeks now and it's not seeming to generate much interest (although a lot of store inventory shifting). I myself saw it live today and it's pretty sweet indeed! Talk about simple operation--I think there are 5 buttons total on it. I sorely miss a hotshoe for a light or enhanced mic, and why no viewfinder on THIS model is odd...but it really is slick overall. I'm really surprised to see so few real reviews too...

Even though I had a once-in-a-lifetime trip last year, I held off the 1st gen models to see what the current crop would be. 1 down---2 to go (Canon and JVC).

I think Pany was smart with the SD thing--compatible 8gig cards on ebay are now starting around $45. And that's over 80min of taping....

Paulo Teixeira February 21st, 2007 07:06 PM

The US version of the SD1 gives a whole lot better picture quality than the SR1 and the Pal version of the SD1 is almost as good as HDV.
Check out these examples of the PAL Panasonic SD1 being compared to the Sony HC3:
http://www.fxsupport.de/17.html

The AG-HSC1U (professional version of the SD1) may indeed have a better picture quality than the Canon HV20, Sony HC7 and even the JVC HD7 when viewed on a standard High Definition screen. It’s just too bad Panasonic is being like everybody else by not including a manual focusing ring around the lens.


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