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January 1st, 2007, 02:06 AM | #1 |
Barry Wan Kenobi
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Canon, Sharp, Samsung, Adobe, Canopus join AVC-HD
Hadn't paid attention, but the SimplyDV article on a tapeless HD future mentioned that Canon and Sharp were signed on to support AVC-HD.
So I went to the AVC-HD website and found out a few more notable names of companies on board, including Adobe, Samsung, Canopus, MainConcept, Pioneer, Sonic Solutions, Focus Enhancements, and Ulead. The whole list is here: http://www.avchd-info.org/index.html So that makes editing solutions from Sony Vegas, Canopus, Adobe, and Ulead at least. And every substantial camcorder manufacturer but JVC: Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Sharp, and Samsung. Since AVC-HD is an entirely tapeless system, I'm not sure what Focus Enhancements plans to offer -- it's not like we'll need a FireStore, but hey, the more the merrier I guess. Still no mention of Apple or Avid, surprisingly. |
January 1st, 2007, 03:38 AM | #2 |
Inner Circle
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Allright, so we could expect an AVCHD version of the HV10 soon?
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January 1st, 2007, 12:45 PM | #3 | |
Barry Wan Kenobi
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January 1st, 2007, 04:06 PM | #4 | |
Major Player
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January 1st, 2007, 06:19 PM | #5 |
Inner Circle
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More like the XHG1 instead of the A1 since AVCHD is a consumer format.
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January 1st, 2007, 08:24 PM | #6 | |
Barry Wan Kenobi
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January 1st, 2007, 09:47 PM | #7 | |
Wrangler
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If these formats aren't consumer formats, then which ones are? -gb- |
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January 1st, 2007, 11:16 PM | #8 | ||
Barry Wan Kenobi
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I guess what I'm objecting to is the idea that AVC-HD is "only" a consumer format. Obviously it's suitable for consumer cams, and those are the first that have been released that use the format; same with HDV. But to label it a "consumer format" seems to dismiss it; an attitude that has also been applied to HDV and DV, and yet quite professional cameras have been made around those formats and professional work has been done with them. |
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January 1st, 2007, 11:35 PM | #9 |
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The only place HDV was marketed in it's initial release as "consumer" was the original JVC cam, which virtually everyone can agree was an abomination of the format in a variety of areas.
That said, maybe we can all agree that AVCHD as *currently* implemented is consumer-only? Could we all agree that the greater a compression format, the more "consumer" or less "pro" the format should be considered, but DV, HDV have both proven that to not be so, just as the DVCProHD from the HVX has demonstrated that it's much more than the compression or lack thereof that makes the difference in format designations? There is little doubt that AVCHD will eventually become the 'new DV' of it's era; but so far, there hasn't been a single product release using the AVCHD format that anyone would consider "professional." But we all expect that to change sometime soon, right? Ironically, as Greg mentions various formats, just last week saw for the first time, a network broadcasting MP4 clips from XDCAM HD. In other words, they aired the proxies. Coulda knocked me over with how good they looked based on what they are/what their purpose is (the network couldn't get the full-rez uploaded from the site quickly enough).
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January 1st, 2007, 11:43 PM | #10 | ||||
Obstreperous Rex
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Frankly I'll bet that our traffic here involving AVC formats at all levels of interest (from consumer to professional) will eventually eclipse our HDV activity... which is a lot, to make an understatement. Dismissive attitudes about AVCHD found elsewhere on the web are happily none of my business, but as far as DV Info Net goes, I guarantee that it will be taken quite seriously around here. We're not going to waste my bandwidth arguing about what is or isn't a consumer format, so that portion of the discussion is definitely over. To get back on topic and to address something you brought up in your initial post, perhaps what Focus Enhancements plans to offer the AVCHD format doesn't involve external recorders this time but perhaps internal technology used within the camcorders? Just a guess, but perhaps they might have something to do with an ability to choose your format (.mov, etc.) directly in the camcorder? I have no insight nor any prior knowledge. Just thinking and wondering out loud is all. |
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January 2nd, 2007, 02:31 PM | #11 | |||
Barry Wan Kenobi
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http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...0307/03-0704E/ In that press release it announces HDV as a format "That Realizes Consumer High- Definition Digital Video Recording ". That's the only case I can think of where manufacturers have specifically targeted a format at consumers. And even in that case, HDV has obviously transcended above that limitation. The AVC-HD announcements carry no such limitation, and I fully expect that it will shortly transcend the "consumer" label that has been applied to it just because the original products using it have been decidedly "consumer cams." Quote:
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January 2nd, 2007, 02:39 PM | #12 | |
Barry Wan Kenobi
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January 2nd, 2007, 04:28 PM | #13 | ||
Obstreperous Rex
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Consumer and Professional are terms perhaps best applied to the people who are using these formats, not the formats themselves. Hand an inexpensive single-chip camcorder to an experienced and talented professional videographer, and after the grumbling and muttering finally stops, watch them produce visually compelling images with it. On the other hand, give me an F-model VariCam and I'll give you unwatchable video. That is, if I can figure out how to turn it on. |
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January 2nd, 2007, 05:29 PM | #14 |
Inner Circle
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the problem with mpeg based new format (except DV and HDV) is they are bandwidth dependant.
Since nobody can cheat with HDV (fixed bandwith), you can play as much as you want with mpeg2 , mpeg4 and AVC. so a consumer AVCHD camera will record on a 8 gig compact flash at 2Mb/s, while a "pro" camera will record with same codec but at 50 Mb/s on a P2 card. Since both will be able to claim AVCHD codec, there is no doubt that marketing BS will hit there (same as Full HD seen on every device now , even if the sensor is 320x240, but output is 1920x1080 compatible). even more evil is the fact you can use IPB pictures at will, so you can build an mpeg signal with only reference frame and another with loooong gop |
January 2nd, 2007, 05:41 PM | #15 |
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We all know the press release you linked to is from Sony Consumer, not from both video camera-related divisions of Sony.
The press release from Sony/Panasonic also specifies consumer http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...13E/index.html, but before a camcorder is released, you've been arguing for it's professional application since Panasonic has a cam in the works. Does that mean that AVC is exclusively consumer? Obviously not, even though back during the summer, Panasonic Malaysia indicated that they'd be releasing consumer camcorders. In fact, Panasonic Malaysia told me at the time, that Panasonic had no plans for a professional camera with the codec, because the codec wasn't up to snuff. If you'll recall, I posted my conversations with Panasonic at the time. If Sony didn't have a professional and separate consumer division that have a competitive relationship, the press release never would have gone out worded as it was, any more than I put a lot of credence in what I was hearing in Asia 6 months ago. The bottom line is performance. So far, at all bitrates, AVCHD has proven to be less than stellar. In theory, in selective testing, it holds great potential. Unfortunately with that, needs to come the support mechanism. That alone, is a long way off. AVC I holds even less promise as being an immediately accessible format, simply because of the math involved, but numbers are easy to play with, so I'll leave that by the wayside. It is great to see Canon,Sharp, Adobe et al joining the AVC train. And signals the power of the future. But that doesn't mean we've arrived at the station, just means more passengers which in turn means more revenue, which leads to more development, which begets greater opportunity and acceptance, along with eventual implementation. But at the moment? It's a huge challenge to intelligently and credibly edit. And likely will be for some time to come.
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Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com Last edited by Chris Hurd; January 3rd, 2007 at 05:54 PM. Reason: inappropriate comment |
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