Press Release: Panasonic AG-HSC1U (3CCD AVCHD)

Kevin Shaw · February 6th, 2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Sure, but what matters is what's available when this camera actually ships... which isn't until later this Spring. This will be a moot issue by then.

Are you saying that most major editing programs will have some sort of AVCHD support within the next few months? If so that's good news.

Chris Hurd · February 6th, 2007, 09:42 AM

I am saying (or rather, have just said in a previous post) that there will definitely be *at least* two major editing apps that support AVCHD (again, those are Pinnacle Studio and GV / Canopus Edius) within the next few months when this camera ships.

Paulo Teixeira · February 6th, 2007, 10:49 AM

I wonder why Panasonic couldn’t put a focusing ring on a camcorder that is supposedly professional. Even their concept AVCHD camcorder had a focusing ring.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...05/ifa6_09.jpg

It’s weird when a lot of Mini DV camcorders had a focusing ring including the GS250 and the Optura.

Owen Meek · February 6th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Quote ( "Everyone I show it to says, 'I want one,'" stated Panasonic Product Line Business Manager SteveGolub. )

not me. i want the HV20 at half the price with features i can use, thanks.

and 3ccd's?.. give us a single 1/1.8 for improved latitude dynamic range.. features the human eye can detect. bleeding colors on 1ccd is history.

could of been even better with the filmic gamma curve and negated progressive frames.

what happened to the company that kicked off the progressive mode? why leave it out now?

Paulo Teixeira · February 6th, 2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen Meek

Quote ( "Everyone I show it to says, 'I want one,'" stated Panasonic Product Line Business Manager SteveGolub. )

not me. i want the HV20 at half the price with features i can use, thanks.

Well it does include a 4 gig memory card and a 40 gig external storage unit for that price so it’s safe to say that the camcorder itself is a few hundred dollars more than the HV20 and the only feature that the HV20 has over the Panasonic is 24p, nothing else to my knowledge. Still, the HV20 does make it look too expensive. Maybe Panasonic will lower the price once its released.

Kevin Shaw · February 6th, 2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

According to a discussion about this in the Canopus forums, the AVCHD converter utility is only available in Japan for now...

Update from Canopus personnel: the AVCHD converter was online briefly but has been taken down until an updated version can be posted within the next few days or so.

If this is an Edius 4 plugin you'd need to be a registered user to access the download, as Chris alluded to earlier.

Ethan Cooper · February 6th, 2007, 06:02 PM

"From the press so far, the JVC seems like it will best the Panasonic in most aspects. Hopefully the JVC will produce editable footage right away."

Which camera are you talking about here?

Paulo Teixeira · February 6th, 2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

"From the press so far, the JVC seems like it will best the Panasonic in most aspects. Hopefully the JVC will produce editable footage right away."

Which camera are you talking about here?

It’s the JVC HD Everio GZ-HD7
http://www.jvc.com/presentations/eve...lid=MPEverioHD
It’s basically a GS400/HC1 equivalent with a 60 gig hard drive. It records a full 1920X1080 straight to MPEG2 verses the 1440X1080 of HDV
So far, there isn’t a camcorder that can touch it.

Thread
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=83341

Video of a JVC representative talking about it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8918&q=jvc+hd7

Hands-On
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces2007/j...-hd-227549.php

Guy Bruner · February 8th, 2007, 06:51 AM

Panasonic confirmed that their press release is in error. The lens on the AG-HSC1U is F1.8, not F1.6 as stated in the press release. Except for the different video processing, gray paint job, and better warranty, this is the same camcorder as the consumer HDC-SD1.

Jerry Jones · February 11th, 2007, 11:24 PM

The big problem with AVCHD editing would seem to be the raw processing power required.

The H.264/MPEG-4 is said to be as much as five times as computationally intensive as MPEG-2.

So -- it would seem to be a significant tradeoff.

What one gains in codec efficiency and smaller file sizes would seem to be offset by the need for much more raw processing power.

I ran into problems as an early adopter with HDV MPEG-2.

My old computer wasn't fast enough so I bought a new one and now I have a computer that isn't fast enough for H.264.

I suspect many fairly new computers considered "fast" today won't cut the mustard where AVCHD editing is concerned.

The NLE firms know this, no doubt, and I suspect that's why they're taking so much time releasing software that will edit these files.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

John Godden · February 12th, 2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

Panasonic confirmed that their press release is in error. The lens on the AG-HSC1U is F1.8, not F1.6 as stated in the press release. Except for the different video processing, gray paint job, and better warranty, this is the same camcorder as the consumer HDC-SD1.

Guy

I totally agree with you on these last points.

This "pro" Pani looks really anemic (spec wise) compared to upcomming competion. That being said, I hope Pani announces (mid 07 ?) something more appealing for the prosumer crowd.

JohnG

Jerry Jones · February 14th, 2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Jones

The big problem with AVCHD editing would seem to be the raw processing power required.

On the other hand, if a non-linear video editing program made use of video "proxies," then a weak computer would work.

That's the news I'm hoping to read when the big NAB announcements are made.

Jerry Jones

Guy Bruner · February 14th, 2007, 09:38 PM

But, Jerry, it is possible to do that right now. Nero 7 will transcode AVCHD to another format that is easier to edit. Or, a professional with lots of footage to convert might want to get the Elecard Converter Suite (pricey). IMO, the difficulty in editing AVCHD isn't the big issue here. It is simply an extension of the difficulty in editing HDV that has largely been solved. The real issue is the picture quality and features on these camcorders.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 14th, 2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Jones

On the other hand, if a non-linear video editing program made use of video "proxies," then a weak computer would work.

That's the news I'm hoping to read when the big NAB announcements are made.

Jerry Jones

Sony Vegas already does make use of these proxies. There are plugin tools for HD proxy creation for Vegas. The proxies are swapped out prior to rendering.

Guy, I'm with Jerry on this one. As a developer of these tools, and working closely with a couple of NLE companies, it's the raw processing power required that is the main current challenge, plus some decode to timeline issues. The image quality on these camcorders is weak, no doubt, but that's not the format, it's the quality of the glass, imagers, encoders, and bitrates. As the bitrates rise, it gets easier, but it's still serious horsepower, even a dual quad AMD machine chokes.

Jerry Jones · February 15th, 2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Bruner

But, Jerry, it is possible to do that right now. Nero 7 will transcode AVCHD to another format that is easier to edit.

Nero 7, yes, will transcode AVCHD to another format, but the key feature I'm talking about is the feature where an NLE will automatically make the conversion to the editing format and then -- upon export -- link back to the original files in the timeline for export back to the original format.

Can Nero 7 do that, Guy?

I remember going over the feature description for that program and I didn't see that specific function.

Without that specific function, I'm afraid I'm still dubious.

Jerry Jones

February 6th, 2007, 09:42 AM	#17
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I am saying (or rather, have just said in a previous post) that there will definitely be at least two major editing apps that support AVCHD (again, those are Pinnacle Studio and GV / Canopus Edius) within the next few months when this camera ships. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 6th, 2007, 10:49 AM	#18
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	I wonder why Panasonic couldn’t put a focusing ring on a camcorder that is supposedly professional. Even their concept AVCHD camcorder had a focusing ring. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...05/ifa6_09.jpg It’s weird when a lot of Mini DV camcorders had a focusing ring including the GS250 and the Optura. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

February 6th, 2007, 06:02 PM	#22
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	Jvc? "From the press so far, the JVC seems like it will best the Panasonic in most aspects. Hopefully the JVC will produce editable footage right away." Which camera are you talking about here?

February 6th, 2007, 12:03 PM	#19
Owen Meek Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 69	Quote ( "Everyone I show it to says, 'I want one,'" stated Panasonic Product Line Business Manager SteveGolub. ) not me. i want the HV20 at half the price with features i can use, thanks. and 3ccd's?.. give us a single 1/1.8 for improved latitude dynamic range.. features the human eye can detect. bleeding colors on 1ccd is history. could of been even better with the filmic gamma curve and negated progressive frames. what happened to the company that kicked off the progressive mode? why leave it out now?

February 8th, 2007, 06:51 AM	#24
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Panasonic confirmed that their press release is in error. The lens on the AG-HSC1U is F1.8, not F1.6 as stated in the press release. Except for the different video processing, gray paint job, and better warranty, this is the same camcorder as the consumer HDC-SD1.

February 11th, 2007, 11:24 PM	#25
Jerry Jones Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 54	The big problem with AVCHD editing would seem to be the raw processing power required. The H.264/MPEG-4 is said to be as much as five times as computationally intensive as MPEG-2. So -- it would seem to be a significant tradeoff. What one gains in codec efficiency and smaller file sizes would seem to be offset by the need for much more raw processing power. I ran into problems as an early adopter with HDV MPEG-2. My old computer wasn't fast enough so I bought a new one and now I have a computer that isn't fast enough for H.264. I suspect many fairly new computers considered "fast" today won't cut the mustard where AVCHD editing is concerned. The NLE firms know this, no doubt, and I suspect that's why they're taking so much time releasing software that will edit these files. Jerry Jones http://www.jonesgroup.net

February 14th, 2007, 09:38 PM	#28
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	But, Jerry, it is possible to do that right now. Nero 7 will transcode AVCHD to another format that is easier to edit. Or, a professional with lots of footage to convert might want to get the Elecard Converter Suite (pricey). IMO, the difficulty in editing AVCHD isn't the big issue here. It is simply an extension of the difficulty in editing HDV that has largely been solved. The real issue is the picture quality and features on these camcorders.