Avid / Pinnacle discussions from 2004

[George Ellis]

Just so you know, LE 5.5 is about to be replaced with 6.0. It will be announced at IBC (next week?). We know that it has HD capabilities, but Pinnacle has been very quiet, as usual, about the features in the new version. If history repeats, there may be a good deal on an upgrade from something like Studio too. That is part of how I jumped into it.

I had tried Premiere 6.0 a long time ago, but I just could not give you a comparison. Almost every NLE has their own quirky interface that takes getting used to. Now that I have used animation software, they really are pretty easy comparitively ;) (still doing the tutorials on an animation package and not yet ready to attempt a minor project.)

It has dynamic timewarp, advanced color correction, and an autosave that is excellent. I does not allow multiple camera editing in multiple view windows (Vegas does that? - we use the timeline display switchs to toggle or create PiP views of the videoes to compensate.) Many of the other features I remember from comparisons are similar. Pinnacle does support multiple CPUs and uses the graphics processor to do some rendering.

Also, 6.0 may include support for a new HD video capture card that uses the PCI-Express bus. Still waiting to find out.

[Dennis Markum]

The "pro" board that comes with liquid edition pro is only 64mb and is primarily used for capturing analogue and converting it to digital. I use liquid edition and a canopus advc 100 converter. Works great...

My advice invest in a RADEON ATI VIDEO CARD (SEE THE PINNACLE SITE FOR RECOMMENDED CARDS). Forget the Pinnacle Pro card...64mb does not cut it.

Also invest in a minimum one or two 250 gb internal hard drives for your video files in addition to the 40GB (go bigger) hard drive for your operating system and program files.

Have fun

[George Ellis]

If you don't immediately need it, you could wait until IBC and see what Pinnacle announces as the new products. They may have the new HD hardware that will replace the Pro card. It was demoed as an ATI/Pinnacle PCI-e card at NAB and the Intel Developer's Forum.

[Peter Jefferson]

Liquid 6 is gonna be pretty big.. i dont like how pinnacle have set up the worksations element or the database situation with files.. but ther eare some tings that they did get righ..

6 will most likely have steinberg VST plugin support.. 5.1 dolby digital using VST technology and DTS options thru nuendo plugins (maybe)

prolly have more features akin to Avid and Vegas as opposed to Premier.. Liquid flows alot like Avid..

[Peter Jefferson]

The Pinnacle ATI AGP card is a rehashed Radeon 8500 (video in/out)

the pinnacle drivers for this card WILL NOT WORK on any other ati card as its a proprietary driver.. the Hardware itself has been flashed by Pinnacle also.. so u can get ur super duper 9800 card, but it wont do anything to improve ur video as it wont recognise the card other than it being your gfx card ONLY.. in and out will still wrk, but pinnacle wont recognise it..

the only difference??
realtime effects.. some are CPU and others are GPU.. if u dotn use the Pro Card, u wont be able to get realtime GPU effects..

[George Ellis]

Not quite true on the realtime GPU effects. You get them, but the Pro card has a monitor out that will display the effects in realtime on a NTSC monitor (I think there is a PAL version too or is it a software switch). I get to see all of the effects without the Pro card after render, which occurs in the background. With my 9600XT, a GPU transition renders in about 4-8 seconds and then I can play it in the monitor in the NLE. If I had a Pro card, I would be able to display it on a NTSC monitor. But as is, sans Pro, I drop a GPU transition or effect on a clip(s), the effect renders, and I can usually play the portion in the timeline within 10 seconds on screen.

I also think that newer Radeon drivers work with the Pro card, but are not always certified by Pinnacle.

[JM Underwood]

Thanks George and Peter for your feedback. I can't wait to find out the new features of LE 6. But it sounds like it's going to give all of the other NLEs some big competition.


If you're a newbie like me, you're probably wondering what is the "IBC". Well, a little google search, and a few clicks later, I found it is the International Broadcasting Convention (IBC). Their stated purpose/objective:

IBC is committed to providing the world’s best event for everyone involved in the creation, management, and delivery of content for the entertainment industry. Run by the Industry for the Industry, IBC is owned by six industry Partners who represent both visitors and exhibitors.

The next convention is scheduled for Sept 9-14, 2004 at the RAI Convention Centre, Amsterdam.

[JM Underwood]

Here's an interesting "objective" comparison I just ran across.

Summary of Comparison of the top 5 NLEs by Jan Ozer, eMediaLive.com, Dec 2003. See the full article for details.

In our search for an "objective" comparison of video editors, here's what we came up with:[LIST][*]We selected five of the top prosumer editors:

1. PP - Adobe Premiere Pro (MSRP $699),
2. FCP4 - Apple Final Cut Pro 4 ($999),
3. AXP - Avid Xpress Pro ($1,695),
4. LE5.5 - Pinnacle Liquid Edition 5.5 ($699), and
5. VEGAS4 - Sony's Vegas 4.0d ($559). [/LIST=1]
6. We created four multipart projects in each program, focusing on critical functions like video overlay, color correction, slow motion, and image stabilization.
7. We sent the project files, assets, and our results files to each company with a detailed listing of problem areas that our tests had uncovered, inviting each company to call or write with their comments.
8. Four of the five companies responded with corrections, explanations, and admissions. The only company who didn't respond was Apple, though provided the same lead time as the other companies.

Then, we compared the output quality of the files produced. This is what we found.



For each feature the Overall Rating (5=highest) and the Render time (min:sec) are presented.

=============================================================================
FEATURE             PP          FCP4        AXP         LE5.5       Vegas4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overlay/Chroma key  2  1:17     3  4:42     4    2:03   4.5  0:17   5  7:46
Color Correction    3  1:22     4  0:59     3.5  0:49   5    0:38   4  0:57
Slow-Motion         2  1:26     4  1:42     4    1:36   5    2:14   4  2:49
Image Stabilization 5  3:15     3  6:10     1    0:52   N/A         N/A
=============================================================================
AVERAGE 1-3         2.3 1:21    3.7 2:27    3.8  1:29   4.8  1:03   4.3 3:50

For the features compared, LE5.5 has the best overall rating and lowest average render time, and is in the top 1 or 2 in all features. However, LE5.5 does not support image stabilization. Perhaps this will be in Ver 6.0 ?

[JM Underwood]

Here are some of the key threads on this board concering Liquid Edition:

Pinnacle Liquid Edition, Mar 2004
Premiere Pro vs. Pinnacle Liquid Edition, Mar 2004
Camcorders Supported by Pinnacle's Liquid Edition, May 2004
Pinnacle Liquid Edition 5.5 [released], Sept 2003

There are others. Just do a search on "Liquid Edition"

[Peter Jefferson]

hmm..

interesting looking breakout box.. i dont think they have any details on their site as yet, but the pro version has a USB2 enabled breakout box wich houses all the analogeous connections as well as optical output for surround projects..

Im still waiting on confirmation on how it processes all this and whether or not your surround sound card is redundant due to the box hijacking your audio ouput, as the way this works, it doesnt seem to connect to ur soundcard fo rur realtime audio output... strange.. and not very efficient if ur already running an Audigy which is ideal for video as it feeds grunt off the emu10k SPU making ur CPU breathe easy...

its all CPU, so theres afew issues im still tryin to figure out..
i havent noticed anything significantly different within the SW but i have SEEN the SW so i cant say anyting until then..

support for HD is there (much like vegas) and it seems theyre tergeting the premiere/matrox RTx100 users
The databasing system is stil there, but heres hoping they dont keep the file asociation hijacking.. i really REALLY hate companies that dont give u a choice when installing components...

should be an interesting time...

[Ed Smith]

Hi Peter,

Do you have a picture or article about it?

Thanks,

[Peter Jefferson]

ive only got a powerpoint document.....

if anyone wants to host it, be my guest.. :)

[George Ellis]

There are two brochures with a picture of the BOB,a platform matrix, and a Liquid family features matrix.

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/WebVideo/...7&loc=lMen1655

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/BSD/liqui...df?Langue_ID=7

[Lloyd Roseblade]

Review

[Milosz Krzyzaniak]

Hello.

Is there any way to force Avid DV XPress to import AVI DV Type-2 footage without rerendering? Like into Premiere, for instance.



regards