Avid disappoints us again!

Paul Toth · April 9th, 2007, 01:43 PM

Hi Jiri,

Currently we rent the camera and the cards/drive (while our Betacam 400a sits quietly in storage) and what we do is get the P2 5 slot drive (AJ-PCD20 usb). We bring a laptop on location and transfer the footage as we go. Avid doesn't need all the other data that P2 provides (not to bad to keep it tho) so all we need to transfer is the video and audio. Once we do that it can be editing with immediately. (We are PC based but I imagine the workflow wouldn't change)

A 4 gig card takes about 4 minutes to copy over. So far, we have not lost a single shot - and we've transferred well over a terrabyte!

I would think that if you couldn't bring a laptop, then the P2Store is one way to go, particularly if you are using their native format. (It's a lot of money for 60 gb's of storage tho -$1800 usd- considering 500gb drives can be bought for cheap). I think I would rather have more cards and transfer later.

Cheers
Paul

Michael Maier · April 9th, 2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Toth

My workaround has been this:

No more JVC HD100... I had enough of trying to get this to work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

Hi Paul,

with the JVC ProHD I have arrived to the same place as you. Except I haven't gotten any new camera yet. I am looking at a number of solutions

The sad thing is, this is exactly Avid's game and what they want you to do.
I will drop Avid before I drop ProHD. There are other solutions that work with the format. I would like to go farther and say there are other even "superior" and more affordable solutions that work with ProHD. No reason for me to stay loyal to a brand that doesn’t offer me what I want. No reason to change my whole acquisition system to stay loyal to Avid. One thing I'M NOT doing is playing Avid's politics game.
Avid is bye bye for me. I'm now in a better place :)

Paul Toth · April 10th, 2007, 05:15 PM

I guess it depends upon where you are at. For us, 1) we have three Avid systems and we know how to use them, 2) our previous acquisition was betacam and that worked very well with Avid, 3) we haven't purchased our HD camera yet.

So this process has been very good for us. We know what camera works the best for our investment in Avid. (Keep in mind that when we went with Avid there was only not much to choose from, the costs were considerably higher than they are today and we knew the Avid would work - in fact our Avids hardly ever crash; I've had more crashes with FCP on a Mac than our PC Avid's). Sure there are things that I want to change, etc. but be that as it may, my choosing to not go with JVC, with whom I have no investment, and sticking with Avid, where my investnment is more than just $$$, makes the best sense.

Cheers
Paul

Antony Michael Wilson · April 17th, 2007, 09:53 AM

Interesting. We just ditched our Avid gear after 8 years. The whole HDV1 thing was the straw that broke the camel's back for us. We're nearly entirely on FCP now and I am ecstatic to report that it was an excellent decision to switch - albeit costly. Avid no longer has us in their clutches and it's quite liberating after so long.

Michael Maier · April 22nd, 2007, 04:09 PM

Yes, FCP is a great tool. It was always better than Liquid or any of the lower end Avids. The only reason I was using Liquid was because I didn't want to switch to Apple. But after seeing Final Cut Studio 2 I'm fully convinced it's not worth it to stay with Avid. FCS2 leaves Liquid, Xpress and any NLE for the PC like Vegas, Premiere or Edius miles behind and gives Media Composer a big run for it's money. It actually has some features than only DS has. I'm going with FCS2 as soon as it starts shipping. No more compromises for me hehehe.

Paul Cronin · April 22nd, 2007, 05:44 PM

I am going to do the same. Started with Studio then Liquid 6 now up to Liquid 7.2.

I will keep my Liquid station in service but the hardware is three years old so I plan on looking for a desktop Mac/FCS2 package. Any recommendations?

Greg Rothschild · July 29th, 2007, 05:05 PM

Well, it's been a few months since the last post. I'd be extremely grateful if someone who has up to date info would update this thread on Avid's progress as far as hd video goes. I'm somewhat of a newbie... considering Avid... but not if the company policy is anti-hd, as it appears to be.

Michael Maier · July 29th, 2007, 10:17 PM

The update is get FCS 2 and stop suffering :)

David Parks · July 30th, 2007, 08:18 AM

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/8350.html

It looks like Avid is going to concentrate its efforts on the broadcast server market and high end facilities. Anyway it doesn't bode well for small post apps.

Greg Rothschild · July 30th, 2007, 08:47 AM

Thanks for the info. I was this close to upgrading my pc to handle Avid Express Pro and hd footage.

Kevin Shaw · July 30th, 2007, 12:15 PM

Edius takes some getting used to but has arguably been leading the pack in offering support for most new HD formats - especially if you buy the "Broadcast" version. I'm not sure how good their support is for all of the JVC and Canon HDV formats, but a version 4.5 upgrade is due out soon which might improve that.

I don't see Apple being a leading force for new features lately, but once they do implement something they seem to do a competent job of it. The next thing for all these companies to come to grips with is Blu-ray and HD-DVD authoring, with Adobe and Sonic being the two main solutions at this time.

Richard Alvarez · July 30th, 2007, 07:45 PM

Well they still have ninety percent of the market share, which is why they are so 'lazy'. Virtually every mainstream movie cut today is cut on Avid. It's still a big enough deal for FCP to have to mention when they cut a full feature. Not true for small indy boutiques of course, which is where the market is happening now. I suppose the latest shakeup indicates they are just going to focus on service of their high end clients. Too bad.

Since I'm looking at buying a laptop this summer, I'm looking at the Macbook Pro 17. I can run my copy of Avid Xpress Pro on it, and I can migrate over to FCP, covering my options.

Christian Magnussen · July 31st, 2007, 10:59 AM

I don't think Avid is anti HD, but maybe more of a bit oldschool and will only use the standards that are well proven and so on. You can edit Dvcprohd or film on xpress, but canon 25f is a no go...
Whatever people say as some mentioned Avid is still the biggest, which also is the problem. Never tried FCP but I'm shure it works just as fine as Avid, but I'm all pc...or windows if you want to. One of the reasons why we still are using Avid is the blistering speed you can edit at and the media mangament bit which is rock solid. But i'll gues Avid will loose som of the smaller customers who actually have to care about the price, I mean Media composer HD or the DS and their pricetags, the big high end customers that have the big budgets will probaly stick with Avid, the alternative for Online editing from say Autodesk is in the same price area as Avid if i'm not wrong?

Richard Alvarez · July 31st, 2007, 02:02 PM

It seems to me, with the 'discount upgrade' available from Xpress to MC, that Avid is actually planning on dropping XpressPro, or phasing it out if you will. IF the price point weren't so steep, I'd say it's a great idea. MC beats FCP, even without the adrenaline. But it's price point is too high above XpressPro.

My guess? In three years, there will be "Liquid" for the 'smaller, boutique and event' editors and MC for everybody else. (With various options for hardware enhancement) I think AVID is just trying to squeeze every dollar out they can from XpressPro... and what they'll end up doing is sqeezing editors into other systems.

But that's why I'm not getting the big bucks for running Avid I guess.

David Parks · July 31st, 2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

But that's why I'm not getting the big bucks for running Avid I guess.

David Krall is now an outgoing CEO and has resigned from Avid. So he's no longer running the company. The good news is that Greg Stanton is now head of product direction. Great guy and he has always been a good listener.
(Former Houstonian I met more than 12 years ago.)

But the Post Division sales were down 7% overall last quarter and the server division was up 10%. It's just difficult for Avid to make money on its software only apps. when Apple makes most of its money on its own hardware and probably I imagine comes close to losing money on software.

Your right Richard. Avid needs to clearly define its products. 2008 will be interesting.

April 9th, 2007, 01:43 PM	#31
Paul Toth New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 5	Hi Jiri, Currently we rent the camera and the cards/drive (while our Betacam 400a sits quietly in storage) and what we do is get the P2 5 slot drive (AJ-PCD20 usb). We bring a laptop on location and transfer the footage as we go. Avid doesn't need all the other data that P2 provides (not to bad to keep it tho) so all we need to transfer is the video and audio. Once we do that it can be editing with immediately. (We are PC based but I imagine the workflow wouldn't change) A 4 gig card takes about 4 minutes to copy over. So far, we have not lost a single shot - and we've transferred well over a terrabyte! I would think that if you couldn't bring a laptop, then the P2Store is one way to go, particularly if you are using their native format. (It's a lot of money for 60 gb's of storage tho -$1800 usd- considering 500gb drives can be bought for cheap). I think I would rather have more cards and transfer later. Cheers Paul __________________ Paul J. Toth www.AdvanceMedia.ca

April 10th, 2007, 05:15 PM	#33
Paul Toth New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 5	I guess it depends upon where you are at. For us, 1) we have three Avid systems and we know how to use them, 2) our previous acquisition was betacam and that worked very well with Avid, 3) we haven't purchased our HD camera yet. So this process has been very good for us. We know what camera works the best for our investment in Avid. (Keep in mind that when we went with Avid there was only not much to choose from, the costs were considerably higher than they are today and we knew the Avid would work - in fact our Avids hardly ever crash; I've had more crashes with FCP on a Mac than our PC Avid's). Sure there are things that I want to change, etc. but be that as it may, my choosing to not go with JVC, with whom I have no investment, and sticking with Avid, where my investnment is more than just $$$, makes the best sense. Cheers Paul __________________ Paul J. Toth www.AdvanceMedia.ca

April 22nd, 2007, 05:44 PM	#36
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	I am going to do the same. Started with Studio then Liquid 6 now up to Liquid 7.2. I will keep my Liquid station in service but the hardware is three years old so I plan on looking for a desktop Mac/FCS2 package. Any recommendations? __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

July 30th, 2007, 08:18 AM	#39
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/8350.html It looks like Avid is going to concentrate its efforts on the broadcast server market and high end facilities. Anyway it doesn't bode well for small post apps. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

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April 17th, 2007, 09:53 AM	#34
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Interesting. We just ditched our Avid gear after 8 years. The whole HDV1 thing was the straw that broke the camel's back for us. We're nearly entirely on FCP now and I am ecstatic to report that it was an excellent decision to switch - albeit costly. Avid no longer has us in their clutches and it's quite liberating after so long.

April 22nd, 2007, 04:09 PM	#35
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Yes, FCP is a great tool. It was always better than Liquid or any of the lower end Avids. The only reason I was using Liquid was because I didn't want to switch to Apple. But after seeing Final Cut Studio 2 I'm fully convinced it's not worth it to stay with Avid. FCS2 leaves Liquid, Xpress and any NLE for the PC like Vegas, Premiere or Edius miles behind and gives Media Composer a big run for it's money. It actually has some features than only DS has. I'm going with FCS2 as soon as it starts shipping. No more compromises for me hehehe.

July 29th, 2007, 05:05 PM	#37
Greg Rothschild Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 120	Well, it's been a few months since the last post. I'd be extremely grateful if someone who has up to date info would update this thread on Avid's progress as far as hd video goes. I'm somewhat of a newbie... considering Avid... but not if the company policy is anti-hd, as it appears to be.

July 29th, 2007, 10:17 PM	#38
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	The update is get FCS 2 and stop suffering :)

July 30th, 2007, 08:47 AM	#40
Greg Rothschild Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 120	Thanks for the info. I was this close to upgrading my pc to handle Avid Express Pro and hd footage.

July 30th, 2007, 12:15 PM	#41
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Edius takes some getting used to but has arguably been leading the pack in offering support for most new HD formats - especially if you buy the "Broadcast" version. I'm not sure how good their support is for all of the JVC and Canon HDV formats, but a version 4.5 upgrade is due out soon which might improve that. I don't see Apple being a leading force for new features lately, but once they do implement something they seem to do a competent job of it. The next thing for all these companies to come to grips with is Blu-ray and HD-DVD authoring, with Adobe and Sonic being the two main solutions at this time.

July 30th, 2007, 07:45 PM	#42
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Well they still have ninety percent of the market share, which is why they are so 'lazy'. Virtually every mainstream movie cut today is cut on Avid. It's still a big enough deal for FCP to have to mention when they cut a full feature. Not true for small indy boutiques of course, which is where the market is happening now. I suppose the latest shakeup indicates they are just going to focus on service of their high end clients. Too bad. Since I'm looking at buying a laptop this summer, I'm looking at the Macbook Pro 17. I can run my copy of Avid Xpress Pro on it, and I can migrate over to FCP, covering my options.

July 31st, 2007, 10:59 AM	#43
Christian Magnussen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 191	I don't think Avid is anti HD, but maybe more of a bit oldschool and will only use the standards that are well proven and so on. You can edit Dvcprohd or film on xpress, but canon 25f is a no go... Whatever people say as some mentioned Avid is still the biggest, which also is the problem. Never tried FCP but I'm shure it works just as fine as Avid, but I'm all pc...or windows if you want to. One of the reasons why we still are using Avid is the blistering speed you can edit at and the media mangament bit which is rock solid. But i'll gues Avid will loose som of the smaller customers who actually have to care about the price, I mean Media composer HD or the DS and their pricetags, the big high end customers that have the big budgets will probaly stick with Avid, the alternative for Online editing from say Autodesk is in the same price area as Avid if i'm not wrong?

July 31st, 2007, 02:02 PM	#44
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	It seems to me, with the 'discount upgrade' available from Xpress to MC, that Avid is actually planning on dropping XpressPro, or phasing it out if you will. IF the price point weren't so steep, I'd say it's a great idea. MC beats FCP, even without the adrenaline. But it's price point is too high above XpressPro. My guess? In three years, there will be "Liquid" for the 'smaller, boutique and event' editors and MC for everybody else. (With various options for hardware enhancement) I think AVID is just trying to squeeze every dollar out they can from XpressPro... and what they'll end up doing is sqeezing editors into other systems. But that's why I'm not getting the big bucks for running Avid I guess.