Does Canon ever talk to their customers?

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

I can't remember the precise figure

See the link in my previous post for the precise figure.

[Justin Molush]

The price for the scarlet is only going up like 100 dollars to the best of my knowledge. I read price increase and was about to flip, but when I saw the number it was only incremental. Ill see if I can find it.

[Chris Hurd]

Here, I'll spell it out for you. Once again, direct from the top at RED:

Price for Scarlet-X, including Brain, Side SSD and Canon aluminum mount (auto-focus support) is $9,750 if ordered before December 31st, 2011. After Jan. 1st, 2012 the price for Scarlet will be $9700 for the Brain only.

The difference is the separate cost of the lens mount (aluminum, I figure its value to be appx. $500)
and the SSD module (value $1,500), minus $50. So the difference between buying it before Jan. 1st.
vs. after is $1,950.00, thereabouts.

[Jim Martin]

I've posted this many times.....CanonUSA has quite a few people reading/monitoring these and other blogs ( met with them over the 3 day period). Canon Japan has been reading this blog religiously since 2008. As for the title of this thread, it has been pointed out numerous times AND in the C300 press release, that they talked with 150+ ASC, SOC, etc, qualified DPs on this camera. These people are the best in this business and these cameras are directed right at them.....so I don't understand what the problem is......they were asked to produce a camera based on the input from these qualified professionals and Canon delivered.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

[Brian Drysdale]

I think it really comes down to the price of the camera at $20k with an 8 bit recording codec. One ASC member thought it should be "10-bit 4:4:4 1080P Log if not RAW" at this price.

I guess this indicates how things have progressed over the last few months with the F3 and now the Scarlet. I've read positive things about the images from high end professionals who attended the screenings.

[Mark David Williams]

Jim I don't think it hurts if Canon reads what people think. Isn't that the best way. Most really like this camera and would love to own one. I would It has a wonderful picture I really like it as I'm sure many do. and many mark 2 customers can't afford it. Many who owned the Canon mark 2 wouldn't be using the mark 2 if you could afford an F3. People didn't use the mark 2 instead of the F3 so if you make a camera more expensive than an f3 your sure to lose a lot of mark 2 customers who would love to move up to a Canon camera designed for film making. Do you realise that many are upset because they feel left out. That's a good thing isn't it? People desire the product.

The problem with the C300 I can see for the professionals this is aimed at is the 8 bit HDSDI. You see even at the lower end I want the 10 bit out to grade footage not in camera where its a step that can't be undone because its then recorded at 8 bit. You can say yes you can grade 8 bit footage but things have moved on now Grading footage has become very popular All the NLE's cater for this and so do colourist programs like magic bullet Colorista etc.If you took your footage to a professional colourist I'm sure they would be happy to grade 8 bit but would probably tell you the virtues of next time bringing in 10 bit.You can't just dismiss an entire film making step like grading It in itself is an essential part of many productions as well as dismissing all those professionals involved in it

I fthink there is a gap in the market right now for a 10 bit large sensor camera that has ND filters The C300 doesn't do 10 bit out even at $20,000 Many can't understand why they did this while still acknowledging what a great and amazing piece of kit it is.

Okay I'm only speaking for myself and I got over the fact fairly quickly that the camera was not what I was expecting and can see that it did get a lot of interest. Fine I moved on and have been looking closely at the Ikonoskop today and spent many hours downloading footage and making tests only to find at the end PLUS 25% VAT taking this up to near enough the same price as a scarlet. Arrgh I give up. I bet though if you ask most here what they think of the Canon the answer would be love it love it.

Also they are bringing out another stills camera with the technology from the C300 so maybe that's something that will appease many on the lower end of the scale even if it has 8 bit out!

[Jim Martin]

I would look at it this way....Canon was given their first assignment by the DPs of Hollywood...and they delivered...once this one is launched, they will have additional assignments and will work on those. I expect they will next roll out a 4K camera and then, possibly later a lower priced unit....that's just me guessing.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

[Chris Hurd]

The XF300 was followed later by the XF100. Hoping here for a C100.

[Allan Black]

Can't wait and IMO they'll make far more yen selling that baby than their 300, even at a lower price. It'll have to have a few more features on it, like XLR mic inputs.

It'll be interesting to see what are Sony and Panasonic doing about it.

Cheers.

[Brian Drysdale]

The C300 does have XLR mic inputs, just they're not that obvious in the photographs.Seemingly they're on the LCD attachment.

[Bill Davis]

The thing I don't get is all the hue and cry over an announcement of SPECS.

Those are all well and good. But it's like dating a girl based on a photo and a page of measurements. It says nothing about the critical factors of personality and "fit" with your individual wants and needs. As with dating, you've got to physically approach and interact with the camera and figure out if it works for YOU.

What do it's pictures look like? How does the new chip configuration handle smear, color, whip pans, low light, bright light - when you pull the cards and put them in the reader, does your software SEE them? Or do you have to wait for some new EOS utility or Transcode process to plug into your FCP-X or Premier Pro or AVID software?

How will all this work.

People are condemning or praising this based on the initial marketing announcements. If these are like ALL the other marketing announcements I've ever seen, the companies job is to make it look like the best thing since sliced bread - and the blogosphere's job (seems) to be to gleefully point out why whatever it is, it's clearly the single most evil thing since the advent of herpes.

The truth is that what makes cameras succeed is whether the people who can afford a particular camera design, begin to use it, and find that the process is SATISFYING. If it is, those cameras do fine. If they do not, they fail. And that has only a little to do with the specs on the page.

Put simpler, anyone who thinks the pleasure of making a satisfying creative work is exclusively baked into the tools is a fool. The tools enable you to cross a creative threshold that you establish for yourself based on your training and sensitivity. If 5 cameras meet your threshold, the choice between them becomes trivial - in exactly the way that an excellent piano player can play a Steinway, a Yamaha, or a Bosendorfer and adapt to the peculiarities of the instrument and be satisfied.

Canon appears to have put out a nice, reasonably priced (tho not super-cheap by design) new camera. How it's footage actually looks and whether people can adapt easily to how it operates are the intangibles that are actually in play here.

And discussing them too much before enough people actually USE the cameras is, IMO, kinda dumb.

FWIW.

[Allan Black]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

The C300 does have XLR mic inputs, just they're not that obvious in the photographs.Seemingly they're on the LCD attachment.

Really! thanks, missed 'em in the hoopla :)

Bill, I agree but based on the Sword posted here by Chris .. and my laptop :( This new 300 looks to be getting away from the basic 'cold' Canon look and more towards the Panasonic look .. my 2 cents.

Cheers.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Allan Black

This new 300 looks to be getting away from the basic 'cold' Canon look and more towards the Panasonic look .. my 2 cents.

But nowadays, isn't the "look" of any half-way decent camera really only a factor of out of the factory line-up? A big change in the last couple of decades is that previously only the very top end models could be extensively tweaked ex-factory - now it's possible with any half-decent prosumer model upwards?

So a few tweaks on the menu and a Canon camera gets the "look" of a Panasonic one, and vice versa?

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

The C300 does have XLR mic inputs, just they're not that obvious in the photographs. Seemingly they're on the LCD attachment.

The press photos don't show it that well... see these pics instead (click to embiggen).

The monitor / XLR unit can be positioned in a variety of angles.

[Daniel Browning]

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

People are condemning or praising this based on the initial marketing announcements.

I agree that the very limited specifications released by camera manufacturers only tell part of the story. But sometimes that part is more than enough to condemn the camera for a particular use. If a project requires more than the specs provide, then it doesn't matter how much I play around with the camera. On the other hand, if the camera does meet the minimum required specs, it may still be disqualified in hands-on testing.

Most of the parameters you mentioned could be listed as specifications (smear, color, whip pans, low light, bright light), but since the manufacturers don't give out that information, we have to wait for testing. Others don't really have a specification (e.g. "feeling").

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

And discussing them too much before enough people actually USE the cameras is, IMO, kinda dumb.

I disagree.