7D Built-In Exposure and Focus Aids for Video?

Liam Hall · November 13th, 2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Sure. But you can't really use it to expose your scene.

The histogram is one of the most useful tools on a digital camera. I use it shooting stills, on the EX1 and on RED.

I'm amazed that so few people understand it, let alone use it.

Here's a useful tutorial that I often recommend:

Understanding Histograms

Of course the histogram is just one tool. On stills I also use the TTL spot meter, on a video camera I use it in combination with a zebra pattern, false color is another useful tool found on some cameras and monitors.

Bruce Schultz · December 3rd, 2009, 05:45 PM

Quoted: "you have to have the Exposure simulation On (Camera setting screen 4, 4th item)for the histogram to be available after pressing the "Info" button.)"

I would love to find out how to get this histogram setting in 7D working, but my 4th selection on that 4th page says "Sound Recording" and "Exposure Simulation" (as per the manual) is greyed out on the only screen I can find it on which is the MY MENU SETTINGS screen.

I'm missing something, but I can't figure out what it is. The Exposure Simulation doesn't show up where the manual says it should be in any mode dial setting. I know I'm going to feel foolish when I do figure it out, but any shortcut hints would be appreciated.

Keith Moreau · December 3rd, 2009, 07:03 PM

Are you in Still Mode or Video mode? I think you need to be in Still Mode, in Video mode it seems the menus change, some things like bracketing and histogram aren't available. The histogram is available only in Still Mode or in Playback mode.

Perrone Ford · December 3rd, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Jolliffe

Call me old fashioned, but try using a incident lightmeter and spot meter?

BINGO! You now have a film camera (but the reels are disguised inside that CF card. Shoot it like film, and you'll be fine.

Bruce Schultz · December 3rd, 2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Moreau

Are you in Still Mode or Video mode? I think you need to be in Still Mode, in Video mode it seems the menus change, some things like bracketing and histogram aren't available. The histogram is available only in Still Mode or in Playback mode.

Well yes, there you are. The setting is there in still mode and enabled. Doesn't help much for video (I wish that term would disappear as video to me means 'interlaced' as in video and 'progressive' means motion digital in my book) mode though does it? I guess everyone who's suggested reverting to a light meter may have the best points in terms of accurate exposure readings and settings since we can't see a live histogram or a live HD picture to judge exposure and focus by. I'll trust my ancient but experienced eyeballs for focus but exposure is a different horse as it varies from camera to camera settings.

Back to the future.

Bruce Schultz · December 3rd, 2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

BINGO! You now have a film camera (but the reels are disguised inside that CF card. Shoot it like film, and you'll be fine.

I would make one caveat to that statement. Shoot it like REVERSAL film.

Perrone Ford · December 3rd, 2009, 08:39 PM

Agreed Bruce. Treat it like KodaChrome 64. You have to tease the goodness out of it, but it's like dancing with a gorgeous woman... get it wrong and you'll be disappointed. Get it right and you'll have every eye in the room...

Richard Gooderick · December 4th, 2009, 04:29 AM

Excuse me.
For those of us who've never made films from chemicals ;-) could you please explain the significance of these comments about reversal film?

Roger Shealy · December 4th, 2009, 05:36 AM

I believe it's film for when you are walking backwards with your camera. : )

Liam Hall · December 4th, 2009, 05:39 AM

Reversal film has a very short exposure latitude. Meaning, you better nail your exposure or you'll be in trouble.

Negative film is very forgiving, you can mess up your exposure and with good post no one would ever know. This also means you can achieve a lot of creative effects when shooting on negative due to it's increased exposure latitude.

Like reversal film the H264 codec lacks exposure latitude and isn't great for grading in post. This is one of the reasons why so many of us are interested in RED, because it shoots RAW and allows far greater freedom in post.

Richard Gooderick · December 4th, 2009, 05:42 AM

Thanks Liam
That was a brilliant reply.
It now makes perfect sense.

Bruce Schultz · December 4th, 2009, 03:40 PM

The response above about exposure latitude is absolutely right on. You really don't have much more than 1/2 stop (if that) for perfect exposure with HD or HDSLR cameras. I would also add the following.

Digital is exactly like shooting color positive (slides) - and traditional still and motion picture film is usually shot with negative films. Back in the 70's some TV shows like "The A Team" and others were shot using positive film stocks which were great outdoors but a nightmare and rarely used indoors due to low ISO (called ASA back then) values like 64 or even 32. In negative emulsion films it is important to protect the shadow or dark areas from excessive noise, whereas in positive film, one must take caution to protect the highlights from being overexposed and losing valuable detail. Cinematographers love to shoot film outdoors and shoot digital indoors for this reason. We are trying to level the playing field by utilizing gamma curves for highlight suppression. Gamma curves accomplish this and is why they are used frequently with high end cameras like Sony F900R and Varicam. The EX1/3 cameras have hypergamma presets that accomplish this also.

If you plow around the threads on this forum you will see a lot of talk about Picture Styles for the 7D and that is what is being discussed - how to simulate the gamma curve process in the 7D picture style menus in an effort to maintain highlight details.

Roger Shealy · December 4th, 2009, 09:04 PM

Bruce,

Do you or others arrived at a good picture style to get better results on the 7D? I have reduced sharpness and contrast all the way down but the blacks are still crushed and too much contrast. I've been modifying the "Standard" style, but it just doesn't seem to be enough range to get the picture so it looks natural.

Bruce Schultz · December 5th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy

Bruce,

Do you or others arrived at a good picture style to get better results on the 7D? I have reduced sharpness and contrast all the way down but the blacks are still crushed and too much contrast. I've been modifying the "Standard" style, but it just doesn't seem to be enough range to get the picture so it looks natural.

Try working with the Neutral picture style, also check out this link;
ProLost - ProLost Blog - Flatten Your5D

Roger Shealy · December 7th, 2009, 06:42 AM

Thanks Bruce. Shot a little yesterday with the "Neutral" Picture Style and it is much better. I had been using "Standard" and cutting the sharpness and contrast on it, figuring all the styles were the same base with the pointers modified; evidently not so.

December 3rd, 2009, 08:39 PM	#37
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Agreed Bruce. Treat it like KodaChrome 64. You have to tease the goodness out of it, but it's like dancing with a gorgeous woman... get it wrong and you'll be disappointed. Get it right and you'll have every eye in the room... __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

December 4th, 2009, 04:29 AM	#38
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	Excuse me. For those of us who've never made films from chemicals ;-) could you please explain the significance of these comments about reversal film? __________________ http://www.gooderick.com

December 4th, 2009, 05:39 AM	#40
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	Reversal film has a very short exposure latitude. Meaning, you better nail your exposure or you'll be in trouble. Negative film is very forgiving, you can mess up your exposure and with good post no one would ever know. This also means you can achieve a lot of creative effects when shooting on negative due to it's increased exposure latitude. Like reversal film the H264 codec lacks exposure latitude and isn't great for grading in post. This is one of the reasons why so many of us are interested in RED, because it shoots RAW and allows far greater freedom in post. __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

December 4th, 2009, 05:42 AM	#41
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	Thanks Liam That was a brilliant reply. It now makes perfect sense. __________________ http://www.gooderick.com

December 3rd, 2009, 05:45 PM	#32
Bruce Schultz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 480	Quoted: "you have to have the Exposure simulation On (Camera setting screen 4, 4th item)for the histogram to be available after pressing the "Info" button.)" I would love to find out how to get this histogram setting in 7D working, but my 4th selection on that 4th page says "Sound Recording" and "Exposure Simulation" (as per the manual) is greyed out on the only screen I can find it on which is the MY MENU SETTINGS screen. I'm missing something, but I can't figure out what it is. The Exposure Simulation doesn't show up where the manual says it should be in any mode dial setting. I know I'm going to feel foolish when I do figure it out, but any shortcut hints would be appreciated.

December 3rd, 2009, 07:03 PM	#33
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	Are you in Still Mode or Video mode? I think you need to be in Still Mode, in Video mode it seems the menus change, some things like bracketing and histogram aren't available. The histogram is available only in Still Mode or in Playback mode.

December 4th, 2009, 05:36 AM	#39
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	I believe it's film for when you are walking backwards with your camera. : )

December 4th, 2009, 03:40 PM	#42
Bruce Schultz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 480	The response above about exposure latitude is absolutely right on. You really don't have much more than 1/2 stop (if that) for perfect exposure with HD or HDSLR cameras. I would also add the following. Digital is exactly like shooting color positive (slides) - and traditional still and motion picture film is usually shot with negative films. Back in the 70's some TV shows like "The A Team" and others were shot using positive film stocks which were great outdoors but a nightmare and rarely used indoors due to low ISO (called ASA back then) values like 64 or even 32. In negative emulsion films it is important to protect the shadow or dark areas from excessive noise, whereas in positive film, one must take caution to protect the highlights from being overexposed and losing valuable detail. Cinematographers love to shoot film outdoors and shoot digital indoors for this reason. We are trying to level the playing field by utilizing gamma curves for highlight suppression. Gamma curves accomplish this and is why they are used frequently with high end cameras like Sony F900R and Varicam. The EX1/3 cameras have hypergamma presets that accomplish this also. If you plow around the threads on this forum you will see a lot of talk about Picture Styles for the 7D and that is what is being discussed - how to simulate the gamma curve process in the 7D picture style menus in an effort to maintain highlight details.

December 4th, 2009, 09:04 PM	#43
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Bruce, Do you or others arrived at a good picture style to get better results on the 7D? I have reduced sharpness and contrast all the way down but the blacks are still crushed and too much contrast. I've been modifying the "Standard" style, but it just doesn't seem to be enough range to get the picture so it looks natural.

December 7th, 2009, 06:42 AM	#45
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Thanks Bruce. Shot a little yesterday with the "Neutral" Picture Style and it is much better. I had been using "Standard" and cutting the sharpness and contrast on it, figuring all the styles were the same base with the pointers modified; evidently not so.