60d 7D proof
 

Hi All, after a lot of reading I feel that the 60D would be a great camera for my wedding business, my only real concern is the 7D. I can not afford to make the wrong decision and I was wondering if anybody could show a video example of where the 7D out performs the 60D. Every video I watch shows pretty much identical shots but I would really like to see maybe high speed footage to see where the 7d excels. I do know that the auto focus is better and a few other things but I will hardly use the cam for anything but video. Thank you.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Doesn't the metal body 7D outperform the plastic body 60d in the drop test?

How about prestige performance?

Isn't the 7d a better performer in low light?

Then again, the 60D has the flip out screen. What's more important to you?

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

It has the flip out screen and gain control.

As far as image quality there is no major discernable difference.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

The video quality is exacty the same. Anybody who says otherwise is just trying to justify the extra money they spent on the 7D.

Many people will say the 60D is actually a better choice for video because of the articulating LCD & the reduced tendancy to overheat. Unless you really need the better photo features, the 60D will probably be the best choice for you.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

The 7D has full HD out the hdmi during recording. Don't know if the 60d does that.
I don't really use that feature all that much but the times where my client has wanted to view the shot, it's been really nice.
As for photos, the burst mode is way higher on the 7D due to it's dual processors. I love that feature and couldn't go back to a slower camera.
Video quality is virtually identical on all the crop sensor cameras. I moved up from a T2i and you really can't tell the difference video-wise. The image controls on the 7D are much better than the t2i. Don't know if the 60D has the same controls or if you lose some of the fine control.
The body on the 7D is built to take abuse. The 60D isn't. I shoot a lot of outdoor vid here in hell, I mean Phoenix and have only seen the overheat light a couple of times when I wasn't careful about putting a towel over it between takes.
Its really a budget thing as quality of the image is not different. If it means you can pick up an extra lens then the 60D is it. Make that lens a 50mm f1.4!

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

If you trade me your 7d body for my 60d + 50f1.4. I won't do it and I don't have to think about it(on video POV). Enough said

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Are the memory cards also cheaper for the 60d? In terms of the auto focus does it the work the same as a camcorder where you simply flick a switch and everything is in focus or is their more to it on a dslr?

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Autofofus?..forget about this 60d and 7d are dslr and they born to take picture....also video for secondary way,there is not autofocus,no gain but iso,wb is not good as in videocamera,but if you have time to make all the good regolation it need you will take good pics much more than a videocamera prosumer...but forget run and gun with dslr or use it atva main camera in wedding or reportage.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

If you don't want to pay the extra for the 7D's metal body & weather-sealing then the 600D (T2i) is currently the best value Canon DSLR. Video quality is identical as with all the canon DSLRs that use the 18Mpixel APS-C sensor. It has a plastic body, the articulating screen & manual audio controls of the 60D, uses the same SDHC cards & apart from being a bit smaller the only difference is that it uses LP-E8 batteries rather than the LP-E6 batteries that the 60D shares with the 7D & 5D Mk II. It is currently about £200 cheaper than the 60D. I bought a 600D to use alongside my 5DII & think that it's a great camera especially coupled with the Canon 17-55mm F/2.8 IS EF-S lens (which cost more than the 600D). The battery grip bulks up the feel of the camera & this Polaroid one that costs just over £70 has an LCD clock display & can be used as an intervalometer for time lapse sequences.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

My 7D is in the bag as a back up since I bought 60D, it has flip LCD - can't be more happy, awesome feature, AND it doesn't overheat, which was the main reason I tried 60D, I love it, and if anyone will tell you they can tell 7D photo from 60D that's BS,
OK, 60D has only one Digic4, but the only difference in performance between 7D and 60D I see is a longer battery life on 60D

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Tariq,

There is no difference between the video of the 60D and 7D (or the T2i for that matter); they all have the same performance. You're no better off with one over the other in terms of the image quality. The price difference between the three (I'm going to include the T2i in this) involves a combination of build quality, processors, and still photography features.

1. T2i - If you're going to predominantly use your camera for video and you're looking to save some bucks for some good lenses, go with this option. It's equivalent to the 60D and 7d in many ways (APS-C sensor, 18 megapixel, 1080 vid). It doesn't have a comparable build and look as the 60D and 7D, but the final video output will be the same.

2. 60D - Same great output as the T2i and 7D, with some notable differences. First and foremost, the articulating screen, a HUGE feature for the videographer looking to shoot at different angles. Secondly, manual audio control--you can disable your AGC (Automatic Gain Control) when using external audio devices; this prevents the camera from automatically trying to "follow" unpredictable audio. Third (and not as crucial), build quality and look are more impressive, getting up there with the big-boy DSLR's. This camera literally lies right in the middle, as a great option for video and a nice starter cam for still photography. (NOTE: LCD screen outputs Standard Definition when you are recording in Video mode like the T2i.)

3. 7D - Again, same great output, with most differences lying in its photographic features. The one major difference in regards to video is the camera's dual processor, which allows the camera to output High Definition when recording in video mode. This is EXTREMELY CRUCIAL when using DSLR's for video because of the constant manual focusing. It's very tough to get a good focus when looking at an SD screen as opposed to an HD one. As far as the build, it's definitely the toughest of the bunch. This is the most expensive of the group (this camera excels mainly as a still camera), and you have to ask yourself if the HD feature and build quality is worth the extra bunch if you're not really going to use it for photography.

By the way, if you're looking for great auto-focus features in your DSLR, then you should probably not be considering moving to DSLR videography. This type of shooting is not like using the standard auto video cameras. Shooters move to this to accomplish the much-desired shallow-depth-of-field film look. Video cameras have lenses and features built to capture everything in your frame. Auto-controls will give you a hard time in selectively choosing your subjects of focus in frame. This is a different way of shooting and that's something you'll have to think about. Ask any videographer and they'll tell you how difficult it is to adjust.

Hope this helps....

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Many many Thanks.

I think the 60D is the one for me after reading all the posts, if I were to record a clip and wanted to play it back would I be able to notice quite easily if the subject is out of focus because the last thing I want is to think I have great piece of footage only to find out when playing it back that my subject is slightly out of focus.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Tariq, I'll be very honest. I can't tell you how many times I've recorded or photographed something that looked quite sharp on the LCD in playback only to find that it was slightly out of focus when I play it on my computer at home.

I shoot on a 60D and I'm currently purchasing a 7-inch LCD monitor (with an HDMI input) to mount on the camera via an articulating arm. It's often tough to assess your focus with a small, SD picture. So I'm going with a bigger monitor; albeit the picture will still be in SD but at least I've got a bigger, better view of it (which, oddly enough, negates the whole built-in articulating screen thing).

I'm a budget kinda guy and I hate spending the extra money ($200) but this was definitely a necessity.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

5D & 60D

5D & 7D

I would defy you to pick out the 7D and 60D shots vs. the 5D.
I chose the 60D because of the articulating screen. (I borrowed the 7D)
Only difference I see is a slight bit more noise on the 60D in low light. But both are light years away from video cameras.
Bill

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

ok so lets say I went for the T2i and purchased a 7-Inch Screen as the video will be pretty much the same, what options do I have to record the best possible sound on the T2i?

There is no real point paying the extra for the 60D if I am going to use an external screen it’s just the agc that is the issue. My question is it worth the extra money to get the 60D to solve the audio issue or is there a cheaper way to solve it with the T2i?

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Will someone with H4n experience give their advice here? I believe this tends to be the preferred choice of many DSLR shooters for audio capture.

I actually used Beachtek's DXA-SLR audio adapter for some time, which I used to capture audio directly to the camera. I got great results with this--it's got an AGC-disable button which you can use with the T2i. I sold it in time because I was using a second camera for my shoots--a V1U, which has it's own XLR inputs--and I just recorded my audio to this camera. I put the money towards lenses.

Beachtek and JuicedLink have some really good options for recording directly to the cameras, but it seems that the H4n is a popular choice. Hopefully someone here can tell you more. Either way, with a DSLR you're gonna have to invest in some sort of external audio option.

I think choosing the T2i is a wise choice. Put the monies you save toward good audio and LENSES...GOOD, FAST LENSES. THESE are what make your video kick.

The most important factor
 

If you're doing video, the Magic Lantern firmware is totally essential. If you don't know about it, look it up.

There is a version for 5D Mk II, 60D, 600D, 550D. There is -no version for 7D-, and never will be due to Canon's firmware protection.

This fact alone makes a 7D out of the question for video. Any of the other cameras would be fine, although i would go for 60D's more robust size, light weight, feature set, ergonomics and articulating screen.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

I have used the H4n many times. Works very well. The cool thing is you can use the built in mics to record ambient and use the inputs for lavs or shotguns. 4-track recording!


Totally disagree with Sam as I've been using the 7D very successfully for a LONG time. A LOT of people use the 7D for video. You can see my 7D work in a bunch of current episodes on a nationally airing TV show called Guns and Gear produced by another forum member. I can name about half a dozen guys in my area that shoot 7D. Magic Lantern may be nice but is certainly not essential.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Yah, the Magic Lantern Firmware is definitely a great tool to have, but it's not necessarily a necessity, as you can certainly get your video and audio just fine without it.

Re: The most important factor
 

That is just rubbish. We have been shooting video for 2.5 years on the 5DII on stock firmware. There are plenty of people who find it too unstable & not really useful e.g. Philip Bloom & Dan Chung to name two well known DSLR video shooters. The features in Magic Lantern if it were stable are nice to have but not essential.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Tariq, the 60D feels much more like a pro piece of equipment. The t2i felt like a toy to me. I just didn't feel confident that it would hold up...
Bill

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

@Tariq: It's a mistake to judge these various cameras based on strictly what comes out of the sensor. Be wary of image comparisons..especially after compression to the web. There are differences in how hard or easy those shots were arrived at. Also, when there are differences in the sensor, understand that the better cameras will operate in a wider range of light, DOF etc. so a comparison in a situation within the performance range of the lesser camera isn't that conclusive. So be aware at how features affect how hard or easy or reliable or consistently it is to get the footage you want in focus, stable, and well exposed.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Yah, I agree with Bill, which is why I ultimately went with the 60D. However I know plenty of T2i owners who've had much success with their cam....and were very careful with them (it's certainly possible, just don't go banging it around).

If you're pressed for money, go with the T2i and put the bulk of your money towards lenses; if not, try the 60D.

Either way, this'll be a fun time for you.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

The success of your business has absolutely -zero- to do with the camera you choose. If you can't make your wedding business work with a $400 handicam, you couldn't make it work with an F3 either. If you think having a tiny tiny bit of extra sharpness will make a difference to your client, it won't. The only "wrong" decision you'll make is not learning how to use the tools in your toolbox properly.

Bottom line... the camera is the least important piece of gear you'll ever own. Buy whatever is cheapest and spend the money on important gear like good wireless mics and tripods.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

DSLR's definitely have their limitations...a slew of them! They are most definitely not meant for the standard run-n-gun style. They're awkward, they lack standard, crucial video camera functions and accessories, thus you're shelling out more money just to accessorize it...into a big clunky mess. Then you have to learn to shoot with them, yourself acting as your own focus puller. Subjects constantly coming in and out of focus. It's a nightmare!

IT'S NOT A VIDEO CAMERA.

And yet....when you see what's possible with this rig, and a LOT of research and practice...you understand why so many, despite all the massive hurdles, have resorted to this as their weapon of choice. I think most (if not all) DSLR shooters will tell you countless horror stories of using the DSLR, particularly for events like weddings. But find out how many of them abandoned the idea, and how many continued to embrace the challenge in efforts to achieve the ultimate image, especially given the client reaction. Just look at all the results in this forum or online. They speak for themselves.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

I have the 7D and the 60D. I rather use the 60D. Enough said?

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Not really, no.
A more useful post would include an explanation of who you are, what you shoot, and why you'd rather use your 60D.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

The T3i/600D is a better camera than the T2i/550D as it has an articulated screen, manual audio control & HD 3x crop mode.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

If you have the budget, a used HDV or EX1 is a much better option for weddings. Why don't you rent a DSLR for a day and try shooting with it? It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

if it's one camera shoot - absolutely, power zoom, XLR, AF, IS, no clip length limit,
live event video with one DSLR = 30% missed shots, but if it's second/third cam considering price/quality ratio it's priceless;

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Yah, I wasn't too familiar with Canon's most recent releases, but they certainly sound like good options as well, adding some of those new, crucial features.

What's peoples experiences with the 3x crop mode? I was just getting used to the 1.6x crop when this came out. At this point you're losing some serious wide angle, I'd imagine.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

With the 3x crop mode you do lose a lot of width, but that is the whole point! If you want wide angle, you don't switch it on. You can turn your 200mm lens into a 600mm equivelant lens at the click of a few buttons. Alternatively, you can use your standard zoom lens as a telephoto lens to save some money.

There is a catch, though: You need to have sharp lenses - really sharp lenses - in order to avoid softness.

One crucial thing that has not been mentioned so far: The 60D has dual control wheels which give it a big advantage over the t2i & t3i. With my t2i, I have to look away from my LCD viewfinder in order to make sure I hit the right button to adjust aperture. With the 60D, both control wheels (one for aperture, one for shutterspeed) are positioned right where your forefinger and thumb rest, and cannot easily be mistaken for any other button. The 7D & 5Dmkii also have dual wheels, but the 60D is the cheapest model to offer this feature.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

It's important to realise the 3X HD crop mode uses the centre portion of the 18megapixel sensor so it is not like a regular digital zoom that just enlarges the pixels. There is no loss of resolution & because there is no line skipping when using this mode problems of moire & aliasing are avoided. It does mean that with a smaller effective sensor that the camera in this mode you cannot achieve the cool arty shallow depth of focus seen in normal mode.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

Nigel, I think it's worth mentioning that while the crop mode should not itself lead to softness, it does make any lens flaws more apparent - like when you see those 100% crops in a lens review.

So, if you don't have sharp lenses then using the 3x crop mode can really highlight their problems.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

I see, said the blind man. So it's not really a smaller sensor but rather a feature that crops a portion of the sensor, yes?

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

That's right Edward. It is a feature which can be switched off. The actual t3i sensor is (almost?) identical to that used in the t2i, it's just you have the added option of only using part of the sensor when you choose to.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

The sensor in the T3i/600D is identical to that in the T2i/550D, 60D & the 7D.

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

I got my T3i mainly for the 3x tele-crop feature, since my main interest is wildlife/birds. I already have the 7D.

The articulating LCD is _very_ useful, audio control is useful too. I don't find the loss of the rear control wheel to be such a big deal - I've had several in the Rebel series w/o the rear wheel, and it's just very easy to hit that AV button while turning the front wheel. When shooting stills, I do appreciate the rear wheel on my 1D, 1Ds & 7D.

Re: The most important factor
 

I find the features in ML totally essential, not just "nice" - especially the audio features and focusing tools. I have had zero problems with stability - but I'm using the 60D version, not the 5DII version. It's possible Bloom et al may have been testing alpha or beta versions that were not yet stable. Usually a release version has been tested by hundreds of users for stability before release.


In any case, I don't really care much what Bloom and Chung say. I usually try things for myself as I have with ML, not depend on others. There are thousands of 7D/video users who are drowning in their own tears, wishing they could have ML on their cameras, but it is not meant to be. I would try it yourself before dismissing it, unless you have a 7D. Of course, it is not 100% safe, and there are no guarantees - many are afraid to try it, which is understandable. Take a look at the menus here:

http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified

Re: 60d 7D proof
 

I think Nigel's point is that there've been plenty of people who've managed without it, including 7D users. It sounds, though, like it would definitely be worth trying. I, personally, am a little fearful of an off-party firmware with my only DSLR. Can't afford to take any chances.