Video taping Concerts with a GL1! at DVinfo.net

John Sail · August 17th, 2003, 09:06 AM

I had a chance to video tape a local band that I see all the time..
I was pretty happy that I got in with it! I was in a with the sound guy on his stage that was 100 feet away from the speakers I thought this was a good distance? When I got home to watch my video the sound was distorted, when the bass drum was hit, it distorted the whole thing? (Question is)

Is there something that I did or is it the tape I used? Is there a setting for tapping concerts, that I dont know about; or do I need to record the sound seperate next time? It seems to me its to sensitive how do i adjust for this?

Thanks John.

Marco Leavitt · August 17th, 2003, 10:07 AM

If you were with the sound guy, maybe you could have gotten a direct feed off the board. You would want to use an inline attenuator of at least 20 dbs. I would probably have made a separate recording off the board to minidisk. With the GL1, you want to use the in-camera attenuator pretty much all the time. It's kind of finnicky about sound. There's a number of posts in here about dealing with the GL1's lack of manual audio controls. Were you using the built in mic by the way? What was your setup?

John Sail · August 17th, 2003, 10:12 AM

Yes I was using the built in Mic! I did not think that this would happen! Its to bad that still today the technology is not yet where we need to be you pay all this money for a good camera and you simple can record sound, why is so different from a Wedding then?

??

Marco Leavitt · August 17th, 2003, 11:06 AM

I would agree that the GL1's mike isn't that great, but this is common with camcorders in this class. However, I would think the problem in this case has more to do with the camera's autogain than it does the mic. Short of using the attenuator setting, there's not much you can do to improve the sound with the onboard mic.

Federico Dib · August 17th, 2003, 08:10 PM

It doesn´t matter what camera you have and what audio controls you get.. the on-board mics won´t record right the sound of a concert.. Some cams with good audio control can give you a "not so bad-pirate 80´s record sound"... And maybe that´s good enough...

But even if you get some good Sennheiser mics... directly to the cam... you would only get a half decent sound...
If possible talk to the sound people and ask them to record you a tape... or a minidisc of the concert (or whatever deal you can make there).. you can even ask them to give you a line out from the sound table so you can connect direct to the camera... (which will tie you up.. so no moving around)...

Quote:

why is so different from a Wedding then?

Our hearing systems works in a logarithmic-dynamic way to adapt at sounds... (that´s why a mosquitoe in a quite night can sound like a jet) and that´s why one might think that a wedding party is as noisy as a concert.. but as a musician... I have to tell you.. it´s not... just the snare drum can be louder than a few dozen people singing... and let´s not say anything about bass drums or distorted guitars... and that´s why I´d probably be half deaf by next decade... what?...

Microphones cannot adapt to the sounds... let´s say they record reality as it is.. and in concerts.. reality is usually to loud for camera mics.. or the usuall Videographer-filmmaker sound gear... that´s why pro sound has different mics fo different instruments...
So it doesn´t matter what cam you got... If you want a good sound of a concert.... get it from the sound people...

John Sail · August 17th, 2003, 09:19 PM

If I get a line out from the sound guys, then I guess I would just put it into the MIC jack? I just cant beleive that there would not be anything else that I can use to make this work.. Thanks for all the help!

If I would bring my own audio jack with me, what kind of connection do I need to bring for the sound board? Are they all the same.

Scot Stafford · August 17th, 2003, 09:50 PM

This actually has *nothing* to do with the quality of the onboard microphone on the GL1, or on any camera. It has to do with they *type* of microphone, and the line level of the audio signal as it goes through the GL1 circuitry.

Rock concerts *are* blisteringly loud. A sensitive condenser mic (unless there is a "-10db" or "-20db" cut switch, as someone already mentioned) will have a hard time handling the decibel level of rock concerts. Some microphones might even be *damaged* this way.

Getting an appropriate input level is also imperative. This easily could have been done from the soundboard!

And yes, the mic jack would do. It would be a good idea to carry around several Y adaptors for this, all ending in a stereo 1/8" mini-plug. I'd get

- 1 two 1/4" to stereo mini,
- 1 two XLR to stereo mini,
- 1 two RCA to stereo mini

You might still have a chance if they made a soundboard recording. You could then dub it over your footage in Premiere, iMovie, Final Cut or whatever program you're using.

Again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the equipment. Of course, it would be nice if it thought for us, too....

Don Palomaki · August 19th, 2003, 01:47 PM

A typical live rock band concert is too loud for the GL1 at the MIC setting. THe sould level will be outside the ADC range and you will get clipping and other distortion.

MIC ATT setting will provide better results, with less distrootion but it might even be too loud at MIC ATT setting. Only way to tell for sure is to try it.

In very loud venues (over ~120 dB SPL) consider gettng some good dynamic mics, and a devise such as the Studio 1 or Beachtek to connect it to the GL1 and adjust levels to taste.

Connecting to the soundboard works too, for the house mix. But be prepared with appropriate adapters, connectors, and attenuators. Sound borads often have output levels aroudn +4 dB or perhaps -10 dBV (for tape outputs). The mic jack on the GL1 expects a signal on the order of -60 dBV for MIC setting or perhaps around -50 dBV at the MIC ATT setting.

Jeff Klein · September 16th, 2003, 10:11 PM

The GL-1 also has an audio input that handles a hotter signal than the mic input (in the back of the camera by the video jacks, labeled A/V). Just make sure you use the 3 wire cable that came with the camera; you can't plug a stereo mini jack in there or you'll get no sound. You also still have an attenuator setting for the audio input you can enable as well and you'll have to go into the menus to change the input source from mic to audio.

A line input from the soundboard will give you the best sound, although it will limit your movement (doesn't sound like you were moving around much, though, if you stayed in with the sound guy). Most mixers have at least a tape output which will be a line level reproduction of what's going to the main speakers. If they are making a recording themselves, it would be best if you could get a tap off of that source, since they probably are monitoring that source to adjust levels independently of the main speakers. Tape output levels are never exactly what is sounds like in the house speakers, but they're close.

Don Palomaki · September 17th, 2003, 04:20 AM

Caution: The AV jack audio input may only be available in VCR mode or when doing an audio dub, not in camcorder recording modes.

August 17th, 2003, 09:06 AM	#1
John Sail Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 3	Video taping Concerts with a GL1! I had a chance to video tape a local band that I see all the time.. I was pretty happy that I got in with it! I was in a with the sound guy on his stage that was 100 feet away from the speakers I thought this was a good distance? When I got home to watch my video the sound was distorted, when the bass drum was hit, it distorted the whole thing? (Question is) Is there something that I did or is it the tape I used? Is there a setting for tapping concerts, that I dont know about; or do I need to record the sound seperate next time? It seems to me its to sensitive how do i adjust for this? Thanks John. __________________ "I RATHER BE SAILING"

August 17th, 2003, 10:12 AM	#3
John Sail Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 3	Yes I was using the built in Mic! I did not think that this would happen! Its to bad that still today the technology is not yet where we need to be you pay all this money for a good camera and you simple can record sound, why is so different from a Wedding then? ?? __________________ "I RATHER BE SAILING"

August 17th, 2003, 09:19 PM	#6
John Sail Tourist Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 3	If I get a line out from the sound guys, then I guess I would just put it into the MIC jack? I just cant beleive that there would not be anything else that I can use to make this work.. Thanks for all the help! If I would bring my own audio jack with me, what kind of connection do I need to bring for the sound board? Are they all the same. __________________ "I RATHER BE SAILING"

August 17th, 2003, 09:50 PM	#7
Scot Stafford Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: United States Posts: 39	mic This actually has nothing to do with the quality of the onboard microphone on the GL1, or on any camera. It has to do with they type of microphone, and the line level of the audio signal as it goes through the GL1 circuitry. Rock concerts are blisteringly loud. A sensitive condenser mic (unless there is a "-10db" or "-20db" cut switch, as someone already mentioned) will have a hard time handling the decibel level of rock concerts. Some microphones might even be damaged this way. Getting an appropriate input level is also imperative. This easily could have been done from the soundboard! And yes, the mic jack would do. It would be a good idea to carry around several Y adaptors for this, all ending in a stereo 1/8" mini-plug. I'd get - 1 two 1/4" to stereo mini, - 1 two XLR to stereo mini, - 1 two RCA to stereo mini You might still have a chance if they made a soundboard recording. You could then dub it over your footage in Premiere, iMovie, Final Cut or whatever program you're using. Again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the equipment. Of course, it would be nice if it thought for us, too....

August 19th, 2003, 01:47 PM	#8
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	A typical live rock band concert is too loud for the GL1 at the MIC setting. THe sould level will be outside the ADC range and you will get clipping and other distortion. MIC ATT setting will provide better results, with less distrootion but it might even be too loud at MIC ATT setting. Only way to tell for sure is to try it. In very loud venues (over ~120 dB SPL) consider gettng some good dynamic mics, and a devise such as the Studio 1 or Beachtek to connect it to the GL1 and adjust levels to taste. Connecting to the soundboard works too, for the house mix. But be prepared with appropriate adapters, connectors, and attenuators. Sound borads often have output levels aroudn +4 dB or perhaps -10 dBV (for tape outputs). The mic jack on the GL1 expects a signal on the order of -60 dBV for MIC setting or perhaps around -50 dBV at the MIC ATT setting. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

August 17th, 2003, 10:07 AM	#2
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	If you were with the sound guy, maybe you could have gotten a direct feed off the board. You would want to use an inline attenuator of at least 20 dbs. I would probably have made a separate recording off the board to minidisk. With the GL1, you want to use the in-camera attenuator pretty much all the time. It's kind of finnicky about sound. There's a number of posts in here about dealing with the GL1's lack of manual audio controls. Were you using the built in mic by the way? What was your setup?

August 17th, 2003, 11:06 AM	#4
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I would agree that the GL1's mike isn't that great, but this is common with camcorders in this class. However, I would think the problem in this case has more to do with the camera's autogain than it does the mic. Short of using the attenuator setting, there's not much you can do to improve the sound with the onboard mic.

September 16th, 2003, 10:11 PM	#9
Jeff Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brooklyn Park, Maryland Posts: 60	The GL-1 also has an audio input that handles a hotter signal than the mic input (in the back of the camera by the video jacks, labeled A/V). Just make sure you use the 3 wire cable that came with the camera; you can't plug a stereo mini jack in there or you'll get no sound. You also still have an attenuator setting for the audio input you can enable as well and you'll have to go into the menus to change the input source from mic to audio. A line input from the soundboard will give you the best sound, although it will limit your movement (doesn't sound like you were moving around much, though, if you stayed in with the sound guy). Most mixers have at least a tape output which will be a line level reproduction of what's going to the main speakers. If they are making a recording themselves, it would be best if you could get a tap off of that source, since they probably are monitoring that source to adjust levels independently of the main speakers. Tape output levels are never exactly what is sounds like in the house speakers, but they're close. __________________ Jeff K (If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.)

September 17th, 2003, 04:20 AM	#10
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Caution: The AV jack audio input may only be available in VCR mode or when doing an audio dub, not in camcorder recording modes. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com