DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Canon GL Series DV Camcorders (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-gl-series-dv-camcorders/)
-   -   GL2 / XM2 Frame mode (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-gl-series-dv-camcorders/3415-gl2-xm2-frame-mode.html)

Justin Morgan October 31st, 2003 11:37 AM

I've been using fairly fast shutter speeds. It's just that when I compare (in FCE) the Normal Mode footage and the Frame Mode footage - Normal Mode looks much smoother and I don't really see any improvement in image quality of the Frame Mode footage. The staccato effect is quite subtle it's just noticeable when comparing the same footage in Normal Mode.

Mike Ostracky October 31st, 2003 11:42 AM

A Word Of Advice
Don`t stray above 1/50th shutter speed when doing films. Pumping up the shutter makes jerky motion, that simple. 1/50th and no more, except when it`s specially required.

Adjust the lights around shutter, not shutter around lights - if you know what I mean.

Ken Tanaka October 31st, 2003 12:26 PM

I have no hard rules or methods in this regard. Just personal observations I've made relatively recently. It seems that wide shots, in particular, can be enlivened and sharpened with deinterlacing.

I recommend giving it a whirl to experiment for yourself. I know it may not make technical sense. But forget the technical jazz for a moment and let your eyes be the judge.

On the cheap, you can download a free copy of that DVFilm Maker utility (linked above) which features a pretty good "smart" deinterlacer. Shoot some short clips in Frame mode and run them through the utility at full DV resolution. Then take a look at the results. You may be surprised.

Back to Jerry's initial inquiry, I was just recommending that he not necessarily follow others' "rules" and/or technical logic for making such decisions.

Ken Tanaka October 31st, 2003 12:36 PM

Setting a shutter speed of 1/50 is applicable for (25fps) PAL. For an NTSC (30fps) camera the standard shutter speed would be 1/60. It's my experience with the (NTSC) GL2 and XL1s that fast camera/subject movement in frame mode gets dicey above the 1/60 number, although dimmer shots with slightly lower contrast can sometimes work up to 1/100.

Just my personal observations.

Mike Ostracky October 31st, 2003 12:48 PM

Quite so...
Your observation is correct, I agree.

Regarding PAL/NTSC, I am aware of that but Mr. Morgan is using XM2 which means he is on PAL standard and therefore his standard shutter is 1/50th.

Frank Granovski October 31st, 2003 03:02 PM


What do you mean by: "... if you keep this footage in frames"
When you shoot in frame mode, the footage recorded onto the miniDV is in frames, not fields.

Guest October 31st, 2003 04:24 PM

so once its been exported via firewire to a computer it will look smoother rather than "thicker" as you described early

Frank Granovski October 31st, 2003 05:42 PM

I don't know your computer.

I mentioned it will look smoother if the frames are viewed interlaced via AV or S-Video out.

Mike Ostracky October 31st, 2003 06:08 PM

If I may add something, Frank.

Once the footage is converted to MPEG2 (DVD standard and that done right - by a person who knows what he`s doing) it looks sweet, as majority of DVD players today decode progessive. That looks nice on whatever you`re watching. Be it HDTV, SDTV or projected onto a screen in a giant auditorium ;)

James Chesterton November 2nd, 2003 03:57 AM

Frame mode is OK, and kind of reproduces film motion with progressive as opposed to interlaced frames. If however you want to give your piece a film look, Magic Bullet is, I believe, the definitive answer.

The cost is of it does not bear thinking about though (about $1000 I think). Careful framing, lighting and camera movement are the key here, and it cannot work wonders if the footage you put into it is crap.

Remember, you can't polish a turd.

Consider it though, as it can give you stunning results, far better than frame mode if used correctly.

Mike Ostracky November 2nd, 2003 05:57 AM

Magic Bullet
Magic Bullet gives excellent results, but it has one bad side... It renders extremely slow - I`ve had demo of 1.1 and later 1.5, I`ve tested them on P4 3.06GHz computer with 1,5 Gigs of RAM and I was quite dissapointed when I realized that my 16 minute short would render for few days (!!!) - my approximation based on first three hours of rendering.

:( Otherwise it`s great, but verry, verry overpriced.

David Ho November 11th, 2003 09:39 PM

Questions about the frame movie mode/motion/shutter speeds
I am leaning towards to get the GL2 over the VX2000 for the frame movie mode option for the "film look" apparel, but should I really geta nother camcorder because of a specific option? From what I've read through the past threads is that the frame movie mode causes fast motions to blur or strobe. This movie that I will be making will have lots of fighting scenes. My question is that will it probably blurr alot? I am also going to do some slow-motion during these scenes (similar to the Matrix-type fight scenes, I love those karate/kung fu type of fights). I want a clear slow motion and some good visual spectatular moves to be shown, will this be a problem?

Also, another question is the shutter speed. What is it exactly and will it help in any way with the blurrings, if any?

Ken Tanaka November 11th, 2003 10:26 PM

Canon's "frame mode" is basically a type of progressive scan imaging mode in which both video fields are captured simultaneously. For a complete explanation see Adam Wilt's FAQ page.

The GL2 can shoot in either frame mode or normal (interlaced) mode, so you would be able to make your own decision concerning which would be best for you.

Shutter speed, as it applies to digital video cameras basically refers to the rate at which the camera samples the image chip(s) (the CCD's).

David, these cameras are relatively expensive. I strongly recommend that you do a bit more research and study before taking the plunge with a purchase. Either of your proposed cameras will probably meet your needs well. But try to actually get your hands on each before making a selection.

David Ho November 11th, 2003 10:49 PM

What about the motion blur thing? Does anyone have any videos/images comparing between the normal mode and the frame movie mode? I would love to look at some sample videos like that comparing the two or showing the differences. For sure, I will go to a camera outlet store and test them out beforehand. I think its just a matter of personal preference.

Don Palomaki November 12th, 2003 05:26 AM

Motion blurr is an artifact of slow shutter speeds, just as it is with still photos. If you use a higher shutter speed there will be less motion blurr in the individual fields/frames.

The strobing effect is a result of a reduced effective field rate of frame mode. With normal (movie) mode a new field is provided every 60th of a second (NTSC). This updates the positional informationof objects in the image every 60th, is the normal TV rate and provides for fairly smooth motion. In frame mode, the TV still display fields at the rate of 60/sec, but the fields are captures at the same instant, which means the image is updated with new poisitional information haslf as often (every 30th of a scond). This means moving objects may have a strobed motion look.

Motion blurr from slower shutter speeds can have a tendancey to mask some of the strobed look effect of frame mode and higher shutter speeds may make it more apparent..

Use the combination that best meets your creative need for image look/feel.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:53 PM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2020 The Digital Video Information Network