mixed frame rates on HDV tape... at DVinfo.net

Brendan Donohue · May 19th, 2008, 08:27 AM

hey everyone,

Okay, so I just started shooting with my HV30, I love it so far, but I had a quick question about mixing frame rates on HDV tape. I know it can be done, but is it reccomended? example: I shot some 60i footage of a birthday party over the weekend, now I'd like to shoot 24p and 30p footage to see how those look, can I record these frame rates on the same tape that I shot the 60i footage consecutively??

As far as capturing goes, I am using FCP 5...no open timeline, so I assume I need to set up seperate projects to capture the footage with different frame rates??
I'm new to HDV so any clarification would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

~brendan

Wes Vasher · May 19th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Everything you record to tape is actually a 60i stream so you won't have any issue recording different frame rates.

Eugenia Loli-Queru · May 19th, 2008, 05:59 PM

You can film them all in the same tape, but you would need to know which one is which because they all are written down as 60i. Some people put two fingers in front of the lens at the beginning of each PF24 recording, one finger in front of the lens for 30p recording, and nothing for 60i. This way they can easily recognize them on post.

Brendan Donohue · May 20th, 2008, 06:57 AM

great suggestion Eugenia! and thanks for clarifying Wes.

Matt Krump · May 29th, 2008, 01:06 PM

Eugenia,

I still don't understand why it makes a difference? Just for capturing to computer? If so, why would the capture software care? Wouldn't it be able to tell? Do the clips need to be captured separately?

Scott Hamilton · May 29th, 2008, 04:03 PM

This may be slightly off topic, but as far as recording to tape goes, is it a bad idea to reuse the same HDV tape after capturing? Example, I fill up a tape with film footage and capture it. After, should I reuse the tape, or will it dull the quality?

Scott

Eugenia Loli-Queru · May 29th, 2008, 04:32 PM

>If so, why would the capture software care?

The "capture" software doesn't care, but the editor does.

>Wouldn't it be able to tell?

No, it wouldn't. Vegas for example can't tell the difference between PF24, 30p and 60i from the HV20/30 cameras. And other editors must be explicitly told that this or that clip is one format or the other in order to use their built-in support for e.g. pulldown removal (e.g. After Effects).

Rick Diaz · May 29th, 2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hamilton

This may be slightly off topic, but as far as recording to tape goes, is it a bad idea to reuse the same HDV tape after capturing? Example, I fill up a tape with film footage and capture it. After, should I reuse the tape, or will it dull the quality?

Scott

Since you're only recording 1s and 0s the quality won't change. What will change is susceptibility to dropouts, errors or transport malfunctions. Every pass of the tape over the heads wears some of the magnetic particles off and stresses the tape. Constant reuse will make the tape less reliable. You might be able to get away with 2-3 uses, but with tape as cheap as it is and the consequences of problems as large as they are, why risk it? Shoot it, capture it, store it. That's the best advice I can give you.

Scott Hamilton · May 29th, 2008, 06:36 PM

Cool, good to know. Thanks man,

Scott

Glyn Williams · May 29th, 2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Krump

Eugenia,

I still don't understand why it makes a difference? Just for capturing to computer? If so, why would the capture software care? Wouldn't it be able to tell? Do the clips need to be captured separately?

When the data is coming off the camera....
60i
30p
24p ....They all look the same to the computer. They all look like 60i. Because HDV is really based around 60i.

In 60i you see a 30 frames per second. But each frame is made up from two interlaced fields. Each field comes from a different moment in time. If stuff is moving you see "mouse teeth"

In 30p you get exactly the same thing, but the two fields come from the same moment in time. No mouse teeth here.

With 24p - you have to run a reverse-telecine process to take the 60i container and extract those 24p frames.

Scott Hamilton · May 29th, 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glyn Williams

With 24p - you have to run a reverse-telecine process to take the 60i container and extract those 24p frames.

You make it sound so easy!!

Scott

May 19th, 2008, 08:27 AM	#1
Brendan Donohue Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 161	mixed frame rates on HDV tape... hey everyone, Okay, so I just started shooting with my HV30, I love it so far, but I had a quick question about mixing frame rates on HDV tape. I know it can be done, but is it reccomended? example: I shot some 60i footage of a birthday party over the weekend, now I'd like to shoot 24p and 30p footage to see how those look, can I record these frame rates on the same tape that I shot the 60i footage consecutively?? As far as capturing goes, I am using FCP 5...no open timeline, so I assume I need to set up seperate projects to capture the footage with different frame rates?? I'm new to HDV so any clarification would be appreciated, thanks in advance. ~brendan

May 19th, 2008, 10:25 AM	#2
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Everything you record to tape is actually a 60i stream so you won't have any issue recording different frame rates. __________________ Clips \| Stills

May 19th, 2008, 05:59 PM	#3
Eugenia Loli-Queru Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA, USA Posts: 348	You can film them all in the same tape, but you would need to know which one is which because they all are written down as 60i. Some people put two fingers in front of the lens at the beginning of each PF24 recording, one finger in front of the lens for 30p recording, and nothing for 60i. This way they can easily recognize them on post.

May 20th, 2008, 06:57 AM	#4
Brendan Donohue Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 161	great suggestion Eugenia! and thanks for clarifying Wes.

May 29th, 2008, 01:06 PM	#5
Matt Krump New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sugar Grove, IL Posts: 17	Eugenia, I still don't understand why it makes a difference? Just for capturing to computer? If so, why would the capture software care? Wouldn't it be able to tell? Do the clips need to be captured separately?

May 29th, 2008, 04:03 PM	#6
Scott Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 101	This may be slightly off topic, but as far as recording to tape goes, is it a bad idea to reuse the same HDV tape after capturing? Example, I fill up a tape with film footage and capture it. After, should I reuse the tape, or will it dull the quality? Scott

May 29th, 2008, 04:32 PM	#7
Eugenia Loli-Queru Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA, USA Posts: 348	>If so, why would the capture software care? The "capture" software doesn't care, but the editor does. >Wouldn't it be able to tell? No, it wouldn't. Vegas for example can't tell the difference between PF24, 30p and 60i from the HV20/30 cameras. And other editors must be explicitly told that this or that clip is one format or the other in order to use their built-in support for e.g. pulldown removal (e.g. After Effects).

May 29th, 2008, 06:36 PM	#9
Scott Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 101	Cool, good to know. Thanks man, Scott