HV20 Upside Down with Letus35a Avoids Edit Flip

Dennis Vogel · April 14th, 2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Hmmm. I wondered if it had something to do with my monitors, both LCD.
Are you using LCD. See this thread for others discussiong it. I also posted a red bucket short clip there.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91260

Red Bucket: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...4&d=1176320138

Yeah, I have a Dell 21" LCD. I see the vibrating red in that short clip quite clearly. It also shows up on an old Gateway CRT I have attached to my PC as well. I'll have to go back and look at the other clips mentioned earlier.

Good luck.

Dennis

Chris Barcellos · April 16th, 2007, 02:04 AM

Here is another letus clip. This one shot with 50mm Nikon F1.4 at about f4 or F5.6. I put a polarizer on the front end, a SunPak C-P.L. I put it up on Megauploads again.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7O4735R0

Chris Barcellos · April 16th, 2007, 01:34 PM

My experience with the HV20 is that to avoid any vignetting using the Letus, you need to zoom in as much as possible without losing focus. The best way to do this is to set zoom speed in the menu to its slowest level, so you can inch it forward. To that point. The variable setting makes it difficult to to that.

Mike Dulay · April 17th, 2007, 07:38 PM

Chris,

These Canons are too smart for me. While inverted, the LCD adjusts so the image still isn't "right-side up" though the captured image no longer needs rotation. Which flip method are you using to deal with this? I've tried mirrors but they're not viewable at all angles. And I'm leery of hacking the case to get at the sensor.

Chris Barcellos · April 17th, 2007, 08:00 PM

Yeah, it doesn't make sense, until you see the reasoning behind it. Dennis Wood at Cinevate a graphic that showed why that happens, and after you see it, it makes sense. Did you make yourself an mount ? Show us if you did...

I find myself as I use it, getting better at shooting upside down. The real answer, is separate flipable LCD screen. What I find myself doing is looking at the subject or place I want to pan to out of one eye, and recognize that I need to pan it that way to avoid confusion.

I actually have DVD player I bought at Walmart for 99 bucks that flips the image and has input. I use to velcro it to my DIY spinner adapter, but I haven't tested it with the Letus/HV20 combo. In best of worlds, we would have about a five inch battery operated HD monitor on board. Got cash ??

Mike Dulay · April 17th, 2007, 08:57 PM

I better take a peak at the cinevate forum then, hope that post is easy to find. 8-) No, I haven't made a mount yet, but I do use a monopod so I just flipped it. I'm learning to frame inverted but it's confusing when switching between normal and inverted on the same day.

A small format HD LCD with zoom would be nice wouldn't it? But I already spent my money on the camcorder. 8-)

Found the image:
http://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/~smithdm/upside.html

And the links:
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...ght=LCD+invert
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...ght=LCD+invert

Mike Brown · April 18th, 2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Dulay

Found the image:
http://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/~smithdm/upside.html

Wow, that's a mind-bender. I can only explain it to myself by saying that in the inverted camcorder position, both the CCD and the LCD screen have been given a 180-degree turn, which totals 360 degrees and leaves the adapter image inverted as before. If only the CCD or only the LCD screen could be flipped, the resulting image in the LCD screen would be right side up.

Does the "magnet trick" work on the HV 20?

Chris Barcellos · April 18th, 2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brown

Wow, that's a mind-bender. I can only explain it to myself by saying that in the inverted camcorder position, both the CCD and the LCD screen have been given a 180-degree turn, which totals 360 degrees and leaves the adapter image inverted as before. If only the CCD or only the LCD screen could be flipped, the resulting image in the LCD screen would be right side up.

Does the "magnet trick" work on the HV 20?

No magnet trick. In this camera, it is a micro switch that switches the LCD to flip. I saw a mod for it, but man, I didn't want to open the camera up at this point....

Dennis Wood · April 18th, 2007, 06:34 PM

The flip hack (unlike the HVX and GS400) on the HV20 is just vertical...not horizontal so it's like looking at a mirror.

EDIT: There is a second switch to allow inversion and reversion...nice!

Anthony Vincent · April 20th, 2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Here is a test shot with the newmount. Sure seems like quality is better when you don't have to flip first.

I am seeing a problem with "vibrating" reds with this camera and letus. See the toy car behind the girl.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y2763PSV

I hate to say it man but that was god awful. Lots of flashing horizontal lines as you moved the camera. Makes me nervous now to buy a Letus. Keep posting that vid around and you will run them out of business quick! LOL

Seriously I would e-mail the guy that makes it and tell him to watch the vid and tell you why it's doing that. That is really bad.

Enea Lanzarone · April 20th, 2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Vincent

I hate to say it man but that was god awful. Lots of flashing horizontal lines as you moved the camera. Makes me nervous now to buy a Letus. Keep posting that vid around and you will run them out of business quick! LOL

Seriously I would e-mail the guy that makes it and tell him to watch the vid and tell you why it's doing that. That is really bad.

Ouch, Anthony! ;)

Those "flashing horizontal lines" you see are interlacing artifacts. Chris recorded the footage in 24p and did NOT remove the pulldown. So unless you play the clip in a player capable of deinterlacing (I personally use PowerDVD) you will see those lines (not on TV though). They are neither caused by the camera itself nor the Letus. The clip is perfectly ok and the quality is just awesome! Sweet footage, Chris! The one with the girl talking about her old "naaaaaasty" shoes made me "Awwwwwwwwwwww!"! ;)

And if Chris keeps posting that vid around, chances are high he will boost selling of both the HV20 and the Letus35! ;)

Chris Barcellos · April 20th, 2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Vincent

I hate to say it man but that was god awful. Lots of flashing horizontal lines as you moved the camera. Makes me nervous now to buy a Letus. Keep posting that vid around and you will run them out of business quick! LOL

Seriously I would e-mail the guy that makes it and tell him to watch the vid and tell you why it's doing that. That is really bad.

Hey Anthony, as Enea said, it ain't the camera or the adapter. Its your player. I did not take time to remove pull down, on these shots, as they are intended for demo. I figured you wizards out there would mess with that, if you want to see how it works. It plays for me fine in even Windows Media player. What are you using..

Anthony Vincent · April 20th, 2007, 09:52 PM

Oh ok. LOL

I thought I was having a seizure for a minute!

Seriously is clean footage besides those lines. I played it back with VLC Media Player.

Quinn OConnell · May 10th, 2007, 06:13 PM

HI Chris,

Thanks for all the info, any chance of some new (less shakey pics) of the mount and set up.. no offence to your photography skills.

Chris Barcellos · May 11th, 2007, 01:25 AM

Quinn:

Try this link, where I posted maybe a better pic. Just not at home now to do a new one, actually on a telephone modem... yuck...

http://www.hv20.com/attachment.php?a...3&d=1176577958

April 16th, 2007, 02:04 AM	#17
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Another Letus Clip Here is another letus clip. This one shot with 50mm Nikon F1.4 at about f4 or F5.6. I put a polarizer on the front end, a SunPak C-P.L. I put it up on Megauploads again. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7O4735R0 __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 16th, 2007, 01:34 PM	#18
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Zooming for maximum frame fill My experience with the HV20 is that to avoid any vignetting using the Letus, you need to zoom in as much as possible without losing focus. The best way to do this is to set zoom speed in the menu to its slowest level, so you can inch it forward. To that point. The variable setting makes it difficult to to that. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 17th, 2007, 07:38 PM	#19
Mike Dulay Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Somerville, NJ Posts: 304	How are you dealing with the LCD? Chris, These Canons are too smart for me. While inverted, the LCD adjusts so the image still isn't "right-side up" though the captured image no longer needs rotation. Which flip method are you using to deal with this? I've tried mirrors but they're not viewable at all angles. And I'm leery of hacking the case to get at the sensor. __________________ DIY, 35mm, HV20: http://www.primitivebuteffective.net Last edited by Mike Dulay; April 17th, 2007 at 09:00 PM. Reason: correction

April 17th, 2007, 08:00 PM	#20
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Yeah, it doesn't make sense, until you see the reasoning behind it. Dennis Wood at Cinevate a graphic that showed why that happens, and after you see it, it makes sense. Did you make yourself an mount ? Show us if you did... I find myself as I use it, getting better at shooting upside down. The real answer, is separate flipable LCD screen. What I find myself doing is looking at the subject or place I want to pan to out of one eye, and recognize that I need to pan it that way to avoid confusion. I actually have DVD player I bought at Walmart for 99 bucks that flips the image and has input. I use to velcro it to my DIY spinner adapter, but I haven't tested it with the Letus/HV20 combo. In best of worlds, we would have about a five inch battery operated HD monitor on board. Got cash ?? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 17th, 2007, 08:57 PM	#21
Mike Dulay Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Somerville, NJ Posts: 304	I better take a peak at the cinevate forum then, hope that post is easy to find. 8-) No, I haven't made a mount yet, but I do use a monopod so I just flipped it. I'm learning to frame inverted but it's confusing when switching between normal and inverted on the same day. A small format HD LCD with zoom would be nice wouldn't it? But I already spent my money on the camcorder. 8-) Found the image: http://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/~smithdm/upside.html And the links: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...ght=LCD+invert http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...ght=LCD+invert __________________ DIY, 35mm, HV20: http://www.primitivebuteffective.net Last edited by Mike Dulay; April 17th, 2007 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Found it!

April 18th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#24
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	The flip hack (unlike the HVX and GS400) on the HV20 is just vertical...not horizontal so it's like looking at a mirror. EDIT: There is a second switch to allow inversion and reversion...nice!

April 20th, 2007, 09:52 PM	#28
Anthony Vincent Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 47	Oh ok. LOL I thought I was having a seizure for a minute! Seriously is clean footage besides those lines. I played it back with VLC Media Player.

May 10th, 2007, 06:13 PM	#29
Quinn OConnell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 94	HI Chris, Thanks for all the info, any chance of some new (less shakey pics) of the mount and set up.. no offence to your photography skills.

May 11th, 2007, 01:25 AM	#30
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Quinn: Try this link, where I posted maybe a better pic. Just not at home now to do a new one, actually on a telephone modem... yuck... http://www.hv20.com/attachment.php?a...3&d=1176577958 __________________ Chris J. Barcellos