Mic options for the Canon HV20

[Cliff S. Williams]

Hi,
I just got my HV20, and am looking to buy an external shotgun mic (that attaches to the camcorder) and lapel mic (wireless or wired, doesn't matter). I'm new to the audio realm, and was wondering if someone could give me some advice on what I should purchase that would work great with the HV20 (to reduce zoom and tape noise, blocks wind and does not increase the overall size of the handheld cam too much). I've been looking at the following, but know there are lots of options out there.

Shotgun:
- Sennheiser ME66 Short Shotgun Mic w/ K6 Power Supply
- Audio-Technica’s AT897 Line + Gradient Condenser Microphone

Lavalier/Lapel:
- Sennheiser ME4 Condenser Lavalier
- Sennheiser EW-100 Wireless Lapel Microphone
- Sennheiser EW-522 Wireless Lapel Microphone

Has anyone used any of these? With the HV20? Would you recommend them, or others with the HV20? My budget for both together is $500 (Ebay/Used prices).

Thanks!

[Mark Joseph]

For the ME66 you will need to budget ~$180 for an XLR adaptor such as the Beachtek DXA-2s to allow blanced XLR mics to connect to the camera's unbalanced mic-in. These add to the bulk of the camera sitting underneath, weighing 10oz (280gm).

My cam arrived yesterday, so have only briefly tried a Sennheiser MKE-300 short shot-gun, it worked fine so far as I can tell monitoring w/ phones.

[Cliff S. Williams]

Mark,
Thanks for the comment. So the MKE-300 doesn't need any extra gear? Just plug and play? Can you detect zoom or tape noise with it attached?

Cliff

[Peter Ward]

I have used the Sennheiser 300 on a range of cameras now. When I got my HV20 my first impression was how small the camera looked after my Panasonic AG-AVC 30 and that the mic might be too big and appear in the lens but no problems works great. On the Panny had to use a side arm as it picked up the zoom noise from the motor but the HV20 's OK.

[Peter J Alessandria]

I (finally) tested my AT 897 on-camera with the HV20. I was sure it was going to protrude into the frame, but it works fine. Even with the Canon WD-H43 wide-angle adapter you can't see it. In fact, you could fit a mic almost twice the length of the AT897 (assuming its far enough back in the shock mount - I'm using a Rode SM3 - works great.)

As for your XLR connection, I tested with both a Beachtek DXA-2s and with a XLR-to-mini cable (no adapter). For an on-camera setup, you don't need balanced inputs. (Of course if you're running a cable off the camera to a mic on a boom/stand you definitely do want a balanced connection.)

I only did a quick test but the sound was comparable between the two setups. The Beachtek setup seemed to have slightly less gain and a tiny bit more noise compared to just the XLR-to-mini cable but not enough to stop me from shooting with it.

[Cliff S. Williams]

Thanks everyone for your response. So, is there a huge difference between XLR audio and non-XLR in terms of sound quality and suppression of tape and zoom noise? I'd rather have the non-XLR due to size and handling but if there's a 10x or more improvement, then maybe I would go with XLR audio.

Cliff

[Peter J Alessandria]

Well my test showed no real difference between using the Beachtek or not - but that was on-camera. Once your cable is longer than 2ft, you definitely want balanced audio. You are much more suspectible to RF and other electronic interference with an unbalanced setup. But if you'll never take your mic off your camera then you don't need the Beachtek (or other) XLR adapter.

[Henry Cho]

the nice thing about xlr adapters are the pots -- no fiddling with a joystick to fix your audio levels. but yeah, no requirement for one. all you need is a short xlr to mini-plug adapter cable.

between your shotgun choices, i like audio technica mics in general, but the me66 is more sensitive than the at897. i think an on-camera cardioid would probably be more suitable for the hv20 than a short shotgun, for general use anyway. it's lower profile keeps the setup compact, and it's wider pickup pattern is more like general built-in camera mics. if you have your heart set on a short shotgun, the at897, rode ntg2, and me66 are all battery powered shotguns that have garnered pretty positive reviews here.

i have a senn g2 wireless system, but t's never been hooked up to the hv20 directly before. i can't imagine there would be a problem -- the kit comes with a trs to mini-plug cable for the receiver. pretty solid setup for the price, if that's what you're asking.

in general, unless you're willing to carry around a 48v phantom power source (like the higher-end beachteks) on the underbelly of your hv20, you're going to want to stay in the realm of battery-powered mics. the senn k6 series is decent and, as one of very few modular battery powered mic systems, it sounds especially appealing for the hv20. me64 cardioid capsule will keep your rig compact and is good for general on-camera use, me66 short shotgun cap will give you some reach, and me67 long shotgun will give you even more directivity and reach (but probably highly unsuitable on the dimunitive hv20). there's a lav mic for the k6 system as well.

whatever may be the case, you will probably want to budget out a shock mount and wind protection.

[Cliff S. Williams]

Ok, well it seems the best option for me then is to get a non-XLR mic since I will be carrying this around on my around-the-world trip. I'll just be carrying one backpack and will be on the road for 1 year. Therefore, I need small form factor; that means no XLR. So, I will get a wireless lapel mic (unless I can get a non-XLR lapel mic for greater than 2' distance) and the Senn MKE-300 (how is this powered by the way? Do I need a battery pack? I hope not). Can anyone advise me on a good shock mount or wind foam thingy for the MKE-300 if I need either?
Thanks again for all the help,
Cliff

[Henry Cho]

the mke300 is powered by a single AA battery. my issue with the mic, and others like it, is that the hot shoe mount is directly attached to it, so there is no way to dampen handling noise. the rode videomic also has the shoe mount attached directly to it, but the nice thing about the rode is that the shock mount is built into it as well (tho i should note people have reported noise problems with the rode and hv20). if you want better sound, especially on a cam this small, you will need a shock mount. otherwise, i can't see how the sound is actually going to be significantly better than sound from the camera mic, at least enough to justify adding an external mic to the proposition.

i doubt any on-camera mic would have a that much of a smaller profile than an me64, or maybe a shure 16a (another battery powered cardioid), in a rode sm3 shock mount. they're xlr, but the me64 is actually smaller than the mke300... my two cents.

[Peter J Alessandria]

Here's what the camera looks like with the Rode SM3 shockmount:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92847
(BTW - the mic is the new Azden SMX-10 stereo mini-shotgun. Soundwise it doesn't come close to my AT897 but for $69 it's a good alternative to the camera's built in mic.)

As for a lav setup, if you're just recording for family/fun purposes and are not in an environment with a lot of electronic interference, then try the Audio Technica ATR35s wired lavs http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...3ec/index.html

[Cliff S. Williams]

Ok, to sum up peoples' opinions:

The Goods:
- Good Lav mic: Audio Technica ATR35s
- Good on-cam mic: Audio-Technica’s AT897 Line + Gradient Condenser Microphone (XLR, which means will need adapter)
- Good shock-mount to use with on-cam mic: Rode SM3
- People so far who've responded to this topic prefer Audio Technica over Senn

The Bads:
- Senn MKE-300 - no way to dampen handling noise
- Azden SMX-10 stereo mini-shotgun doesn't come close to Audio-Tech's AT897 in terms of performance

So, what I'm buying:
- XLR-to-mini cable
- Audio-Tech's AT897
- Audio Technica ATR35s
- Rode SM3

What do you all think? Is this all I need? Do you think this will ensure elimination of tape and zoom noise?

Thanks for all your help!!

Cliff

[Henry Cho]

i guess this all begs the question... what are you planning on shooting? don't write off the senns. it's an extremely flexible system, and they're hotter than the at's, which may be what you want. i've owned both the at897 and me66... they have different characteristics and, if price weren't an issue, i might go sennheiser, especially without a mixer. the at897 is 150 bucks cheaper tho.

motor noise is one issue, handling is another. the shock mount will help with handling noise, and dampen motor vibrations from the camera. motor noise is more a matter of proximity to the camera and, to a smaller extent, pickup pattern of the mic. smaller cams, even the a1, always seem to have an issue with motor noise because the mics are always so close to the motor transport and internals on the camera. it's just another reason why people run sound off camera. on-camera, best thing would be to NOT zoom while shooting, or figure out some way to place the mic high over the cam. regardless, motor noise should only be an issue in quiet environments.

also, the foam covers that come with most mics are useless in anything stronger than a light breeze. your best options are windshields that create some dead space between the mic and windscreen, and a furry. take a look at some of the compact offerings by rycote and lightwave.

[Cliff S. Williams]

Hi Henry,

With the lav mic I'll be doing interviews in the following settings:
- inside home/apartment (quiet)
- possibly inside settings like streets, bars, restaurants, airports, train/bus stations

With the AT897 (or ME66, depends which is better and more compact) I'll be shooting all types of shots ranging from:
- nature footage (rain forests, mountains, fields, etc.)
- busy city streets
- concerts
- spontaneous interviews when I don't have time to use the lav mic

What do you think now?
Cliff

[Henry Cho]

me66 is not more compact, the me64 is. and whether the me66 is better than the at897 is debatable. both are good solid mics.

shotguns are notoriously bad in uncontrolled interiors because of their poor rear axis rejection -- you'll be plagued with hollow sound. either pad down the room, or use a cardioid mic in these situations. cardioids are great for live shows and general use indoors. outdoors, a shotgun will outperform the cardioid because you won't be dealing with reflective surfaces inherent in interior shots and you gain the benefit of the extra reach a shotgun provides. that's why i like the senn k6 system here. you can build the system as needed. k6 powering module with me64 and me66 caps, and possibly the wired lav for the k6 system (model number eludes me), should cover your basic needs. the only thing about the k6 system is that it lacks a good hypercardioid capsule, but you wouldn't want to use a hyper on-camera anyway.

regardless of whether you go to the k6 system or not, if the mic is on the cam, my advice would be to use a cardioid mic indoors and a shotgun outdoors.

again, only my two cents.