Pixel shift and Hydra - a couple of curious questions at DVinfo.net

David Delaney · July 1st, 2007, 05:51 PM

I was curious about two things -
1) Can they make something similar to the Hydra for the HVX for the HV20? It would be a cheap alternative since the andromeda for the DVX looks so freaking good.

2) Does the HV20 employ pixel shift like the Panasonic HVX? I wonder if mod'ing a camera to achieve pixel shift would give greater latitude, almost like film?

Chris Hurd · July 1st, 2007, 06:25 PM

1) That's a question for the people at Reel Stream. They're the ones doing the Hydra and other camcorder modifications.

2) Pixel Shift is possible only in camcorders using three image sensors. Since the HV20 uses only a single image sensor, Pixel Shift can't happen. Hope this helps,

Barry Green · July 2nd, 2007, 02:46 AM

It might be possible to make a hydra for the HV20, but the question of market suitability comes into play; would someone spend $3500 or $4000 to modify a $1000 camcorder?

David Delaney · July 2nd, 2007, 09:26 AM

For me it would come down to price point. After spending $3500+ on an HVX and then $3500+ on the Hydra, it gets a tad expensive - total of $7000. If the quality is going to be close with the HV20 (I did say close) then it is an additional savings to the consumer and gives them a choice - the difference of $2500 is important to me if it came down to it - but again, maybe it wouldn't be worth it in the end because the HV20 isn't a prosumer camera?

Thomas Smet · July 3rd, 2007, 09:00 AM

Why would you need this? The HDMI port already gives you uncompressed 4:2:2.

There is no way to use pixel shift on a single chip camera. What would you shift?

The only thing the device may give you is 4:4:4 instead of just 4:2:2 but I doubt it would really make that much of a difference for footage from this camera. I mean if it is hard for most people to see the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 on normal footage then 4:2:2 compared to 4:4:4 is even harder to see.

The way bayer patterns work on single chips even if you had 4:4:4 the color precsion will never be perfect.

In my opinion this device would be a total waste of money on the HV20.

On the DVX100 it made a lot of sense because not only did it give high quality color but it gave people an option for uncompressed video which no DV camera has. It also allowed people to use the SD chips to get HD resolution. For the HVX200 it makes a little less sense because the camera is already HD and 4:2:2. About the only thing you gain on the HVX200 is a digital method to get uncompressed HD from the camera. Right now the only way to get live uncompressed from the HVX200 is to use analog component. Analog component is still full raster uncompressed however.

Either way you look at it, if you use component, SDI, HDMI or a cable plugged to this device you are tied to a computer.

July 1st, 2007, 05:51 PM	#1
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Pixel shift and Hydra - a couple of curious questions I was curious about two things - 1) Can they make something similar to the Hydra for the HVX for the HV20? It would be a cheap alternative since the andromeda for the DVX looks so freaking good. 2) Does the HV20 employ pixel shift like the Panasonic HVX? I wonder if mod'ing a camera to achieve pixel shift would give greater latitude, almost like film?

July 1st, 2007, 06:25 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	1) That's a question for the people at Reel Stream. They're the ones doing the Hydra and other camcorder modifications. 2) Pixel Shift is possible only in camcorders using three image sensors. Since the HV20 uses only a single image sensor, Pixel Shift can't happen. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 2nd, 2007, 02:46 AM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	It might be possible to make a hydra for the HV20, but the question of market suitability comes into play; would someone spend $3500 or $4000 to modify a $1000 camcorder?

July 2nd, 2007, 09:26 AM	#4
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	For me it would come down to price point. After spending $3500+ on an HVX and then $3500+ on the Hydra, it gets a tad expensive - total of $7000. If the quality is going to be close with the HV20 (I did say close) then it is an additional savings to the consumer and gives them a choice - the difference of $2500 is important to me if it came down to it - but again, maybe it wouldn't be worth it in the end because the HV20 isn't a prosumer camera?

July 3rd, 2007, 09:00 AM	#5
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Why would you need this? The HDMI port already gives you uncompressed 4:2:2. There is no way to use pixel shift on a single chip camera. What would you shift? The only thing the device may give you is 4:4:4 instead of just 4:2:2 but I doubt it would really make that much of a difference for footage from this camera. I mean if it is hard for most people to see the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 on normal footage then 4:2:2 compared to 4:4:4 is even harder to see. The way bayer patterns work on single chips even if you had 4:4:4 the color precsion will never be perfect. In my opinion this device would be a total waste of money on the HV20. On the DVX100 it made a lot of sense because not only did it give high quality color but it gave people an option for uncompressed video which no DV camera has. It also allowed people to use the SD chips to get HD resolution. For the HVX200 it makes a little less sense because the camera is already HD and 4:2:2. About the only thing you gain on the HVX200 is a digital method to get uncompressed HD from the camera. Right now the only way to get live uncompressed from the HVX200 is to use analog component. Analog component is still full raster uncompressed however. Either way you look at it, if you use component, SDI, HDMI or a cable plugged to this device you are tied to a computer.