XF605 (default aperture)

[Nick Mirro]

Got one and sooo happy! A dream upgrade from the XF400 :)

First thing I did (coming from XAs and the XF400) is print the full manual, since this camera is drastically different. Guessing most advanced gear users do this already. $10 in printer ink (double-side) and $15 at Fedex to trim 1/2" from each edge and spiral bind. A lovely manual!

Buttons and switches are such an improvement over menu-diving!

I do have a question for anyone who has experience with this sort of camera. Canon sets the default aperture to equal the shutter speed (e.g. 1/30 >> 30 fps). Why is this? I'd really like the camera to double the framerate by default so I won't have to keep an eye on it.

Yes I shoot a lot of manual, but also want control of the aperture while ignoring SS. I'm not used to a camera that tells you everything it is doing, which is priceless.

Any idea why this is configured like this?

[Don Palomaki]

Canon sets the default aperture to equal the shutter speed (e.g. 1/30 >> 30 fps).

Do you mean frame rate?. 1/30 is a shutter speed. 30 fps is a frame rate. Aperture would be something like f/2.8, and when combined with gain and shutter speed determine the image brightness.

Shutter speeds are typically faster than frame rate to avoid motion artifacts. A 1/15 shutter corresponds to two frames (4 fields for interlaced) NTSC.. Frame rate is typically driven by the distribution/display systems;; e.g., 29.97 being standard for NTSC and 25 for PAL. Other frame rates can be used for special purposes such as slo-mo,

Does the camera offer an aperture priority program mode (Av) that lets you adjust the aperture and it will automatically adjust shutter to provide the camera's estimate of best exposure?

[Mark Fry]

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

Do you mean frame rate?. 1/30 is a shutter speed. 30 fps is a frame rate. Aperture would be something like f/2.8, and when combined with gain and shutter speed determine the image brightness.

Shutter speeds are typically faster than frame rate to avoid motion artifacts. A 1/15 shutter corresponds to two frames (4 fields for interlaced) NTSC.. Frame rate is typically driven by the distribution/display systems;; e.g., 29.97 being standard for NTSC and 25 for PAL. Other frame rates can be used for special purposes such as slo-mo,

Does the camera offer an aperture priority program mode (Av) that lets you adjust the aperture and it will automatically adjust shutter to provide the camera's estimate of best exposure?

To add to what Don has said...
First choose your frame-rate. This is a decision to make for a whole project. Only change it in special situations (e.g. a slow-motion or time-lapse sequence). If you're in the NTSC world, stick to 30, or perhaps 60 fps if you know your audience can play back at the higher speed; in PAL-land, choose 25 or maybe 50.

Having fixed your frame-rate, you need to keep your shutter speed within a fairly narrow range that will give the appearance of smooth, realistic motion. Too slow and everything is blurred; too fast and the picture seems to flicker since there's little or no motion blur in each frame; fast-moving objects appear to have jumped from one place in the picture to another. Most people stick to 1/30 or 1/60 for 30fps.

Use the ND (neutral density) filter to cut down the light on sunny days and to let more in when shooting indoors, etc. Then use the aperture setting (f-stop) to fine-tune the exposure, watching out for depth-of-field and that kind of thing. The XF605's lens will have a range of apertures (less than the full range available) that gives the clearest results. On my XH-A1s, with 1/3" chips, I start to see problems above about f8. Hopefully with a 1" chip, you can stop down further with the 605

This sounds quite complex, but it's important to understand how it all interacts. Fortunately, you won't often have to worry about it when shooting. In my experience (of older Canon camcorders) you can trust Canon's auto-exposure to make sensible choices in normal situations. It will keep shutter-speed constant if it can, and only change it if it runs out of aperture adjustment. If you don't like the results, check which ND you've selected. If that's OK, try adjusting the AE compensation a little, for example to brighten the shadows.

Don also mentioned "gain", the digital camera's equivalent of film speed or sensitivity. On my camera (XH-A1s), normal auto-exposure doesn't touch gain. Only the full-auto "green-box" setting does that, which I've never used. You should only add gain, sparingly, in low light situations. Try it out first and decide at what level the extra noise outweighs brighter exposure.

Good luck with your new toy. Show us your results when you've got the hang of it and tell us how it's going.

[Nick Mirro]

Sorry to come off as so ignorant. I've been using Canon camcorders for 10 years. I did mean shutter speed. I've always thought the optimal SS was twice the frame rate, so at my preferred 30 fps, I figure the camcorder would use 1/60th as its default.

From your comments and Canon's settings, 1/30 must be fine for 30 fps.

I'm coming off of an XF400, which we reached limits with. A superb camera for the price, but the 10 bit and log are irresistible not to mention all the other features.

We shoot wildlife with 3 cameras including an XC15 and EOS R. Found Canon log 1 is superior to direct Wide DR if graded optimally. The clip below shoots most closeup with the XF400 and a Canon 500D, a powerful combination. Also used the Canon TL-U58 with a 77mm 500D for more undistorted magnification. Very nice combo.

So upping the game with the 605 and dying!!! to get it outside :-) Same lens thread!

For a comparison of XF400 Wide DR (2:00) vs XC15 log (13:00), both with 500D. 4K if you can.

NTMN Presents: Insects of Furneaux Creek with Laura Kimberly on Vimeo

[Erick Perdomo]

This video is AWESOME! Really nice work...so I guess you'll start shooting with your new XF605 soon? I can't wait to see some footage. I want to replace my old XF300 and I never liked the XF400 and the XF705 was too much money for me... the XF605 may be the one to get for those of us who really want a camcorder in our camera bag- I usually shoot events with the XF300s but some minor corporate videos with a Canon C100mk2 and even a Canon 90D...but I confess a full fledged 4k camcorder would be awesome...a good one in low light would be a bonus!
thanks for the video

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Nick Mirro

From your comments and Canon's settings, 1/30 must be fine for 30 fps.

No, that is incorrect. Standard practice throughout the television/video/film industry us to set the the shutter speed so that it is AT LEAST twice the frame rate, or else you will have excessive motion blur in your images. The correct shutter speed for 30p is 1/60th. The correct shutter speed for 24p is 1/48. You can go a just a little faster than those speeds ( I shoot 30p at 1/80 and 24p at 1/60) but there's almost never any reason to go slower unless you are shooting in low light and you don't want to raise the gain.

[Nick Mirro]

Originally Posted by Erick Perdomo

This video is AWESOME! Really nice work...so I guess you'll start shooting with your new XF605 soon? I can't wait to see some footage. I want to replace my old XF300 and I never liked the XF400 and the XF705 was too much money for me... the XF605 may be the one to get for those of us who really want a camcorder in our camera bag- I usually shoot events with the XF300s but some minor corporate videos with a Canon C100mk2 and even a Canon 90D...but I confess a full fledged 4k camcorder would be awesome...a good one in low light would be a bonus!
thanks for the video

Thanks so much! Davinci Resolve helps quite a bit :) I've spent a couple of hours indoors with the 605 today. First impressions... The buttons are really well thought out. Took very little time to mostly memorize. The rocker arm is silky with effortless variable speed control, very different than the 400. The touch screen is a bit small and probably a little difficult for someone with big fingers. Still though it is sensitive and perfectly laid out.

My favorite feature is shooting at f25. Exceeding the lens' refraction limit is a small tradeoff for macro footage. Huge boost in DOF. The subject needs to be blasted with light, which is easy enough for close-up.

It has most assist features found in Ninja recorders. This pairs really well with a 7" (inferno in my case). You get to choose where to send zebra, false color, etc., to the touch screen or external. So it is really nice to mix up what the recorder and camera are best at.

It is significantly larger than a 400/405, though as others have said, strangely light.

The image quality is just gorgeous as you might expect. Can't wait to see how 10 bit and Log3 affect editing :)

I preordered on B&H in August. It came out in the 3rd week of September, but it turns out many preordered before me and they were cleaned out. Finally got one when their second shipment came in a month later.

My most expensive purchase yet and I felt guilty for about 2 hours. That's long gone. I now spend more time with the camera than my wife :D

[Nick Mirro]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

The correct shutter speed for 30p is 1/60th. The correct shutter speed for 24p is 1/48.

I wonder what Canon was thinking here. Oh well, easy enough to set it manually to 1/60th. Thank for the input!

Yikes wow! Just read up on shutter angle. That's new and solves that issue! Just set it to 180 and forget it :)

[Mark Fry]

Originally Posted by Nick Mirro

Sorry to come off as so ignorant. I've been using Canon camcorders for 10 years. I did mean shutter speed. I've always thought the optimal SS was twice the frame rate, so at my preferred 30 fps, I figure the camcorder would use 1/60th as its default.

And I'm sorry for not reading your original post carefully enough - I should have realised you'd muddled those terms accidentally. I was passing on the advice I wish I'd had in my first few weeks of using a "proper" camera.

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

No, that is incorrect. Standard practice throughout the television/video/film industry us to set the the shutter speed so that it is AT LEAST twice the frame rate, or else you will have excessive motion blur in your images.

Interesting - I've always used 1/50 sec as my default (I'm in PAL-land) but had assumed that was because 25i (interlaced) is 50 half-frames per second and if/when I'm able to shoot 50p then I'll still use 1/50. I'll need to experiment when the time comes.

Originally Posted by Nick Mirro

Yikes wow! Just read up on shutter angle. That's new and solves that issue! Just set it to 180 and forget it :)

The XF605 lets you set shutter speed that way, does it? Neat. :)

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Mark Fry

Interesting - I've always used 1/50 sec as my default (I'm in PAL-land) but had assumed that was because 25i (interlaced) is 50 half-frames per second and if/when I'm able to shoot 50p then I'll still use 1/50. I'll need to experiment when the time comes.

1/50 was correct for 25i and is still correct for 25p, but it might be incorrect for 50p -- it all depends on what you are going ot do with the 50p footage in post. If you are going edit 50p on a 50p timeline and release the video in 50p then 1/100 would be appropriate. However, if you are going to do what most people do who shoot 50p, and put that 50p footage on a 25p timeline and/or release their video as 25p, then 1/50 would be the appropriate shutter speed. Putting 50p on a 25p timeline is the same thing as shooting 25p in the first place because half the frames are just thrown away by the NLE. Therefore, 50p that will be used on a 25p timeline needs to be shot as if it was 25p in the first place. And the correct shutter speed for 25p is 1/50. The exception is if the 50p footage is intended to be used as half-speed slow-motion on a 25p timeline, in that case, 1/100 is the best shutter speed.

Before you press the record button you have to already know how the footage will be used in post in order to select the most appropriate shutter speed. BTW, these numbers aren't just my opinion, they are the recognized standard practices throughout the industry. Yes, there are creative reasons to vary ths shutter speed sometimes, but these are the mainstream settings to use the rest of the time.

50p for a 50p production: 1/100
50p for a 25p production: 1/50
25p for a 25p production: 1/50
50p for use as slow-motion footage in a 25p production: 1/100

[Erick Perdomo]

Originally Posted by Nick Mirro

Thanks so much! Davinci Resolve helps quite a bit :) I've spent a couple of hours indoors with the 605 today. First impressions... The buttons are really well thought out. Took very little time to mostly memorize. The rocker arm is silky with effortless variable speed control, very different than the 400. The touch screen is a bit small and probably a little difficult for someone with big fingers. Still though it is sensitive and perfectly laid out.

My favorite feature is shooting at f25. Exceeding the lens' refraction limit is a small tradeoff for macro footage. Huge boost in DOF. The subject needs to be blasted with light, which is easy enough for close-up.

It has most assist features found in Ninja recorders. This pairs really well with a 7" (inferno in my case). You get to choose where to send zebra, false color, etc., to the touch screen or external. So it is really nice to mix up what the recorder and camera are best at.

It is significantly larger than a 400/405, though as others have said, strangely light.

The image quality is just gorgeous as you might expect. Can't wait to see how 10 bit and Log3 affect editing :)

I preordered on B&H in August. It came out in the 3rd week of September, but it turns out many preordered before me and they were cleaned out. Finally got one when their second shipment came in a month later.

My most expensive purchase yet and I felt guilty for about 2 hours. That's long gone. I now spend more time with the camera than my wife :D

Careful there! Spend some quality time with your wife! LOL...but not before you put together an awesome video shot entirely with the XF605! Good to hear that you are happy with the XF605. I have seen a few videos on youtube and I have mixed opinions. I know that I adjusted my XF300 so that I could get the best video quality out of it-so the XF605 will need some adjustments too for sure. But I'm not sure people posting videos shot with the XF605 have actually taken the time to do that...some videos look really good and others look just meh...I hope to see your video sometime soon...I know it won't be as good as a video shot with the C100mk2 and a fast lens like a sigma 18-35mm f1.8 but I hope the XF605 is a good camcorder with decent low light performance...can't wait for the video...your wife will understand...lol