Frustrating problem with the XH A1s at DVinfo.net

Danny Winn · February 16th, 2010, 07:27 PM

One thing that is really annoying with the A1s is that when you're shooting on location and use the viewfinder or even a 9 inch monitor in my case, then get back home and start capturing your footage, you start seeing the corner of a boom in the corner of your shot, or a mic cord in the bottom corner of the screen. These things were not seen in the viewfinder or the monitor.

In otherwords, the camera films about 3 to 4 more inches than the displays are showing. I've learned to compensate for those added few inches now but occasionally I stil catch a corner of something unwanted in the shot.

I wish the viewfinder and scene in the monitor was exactly what the camera was capturing. Most of my stuff goes on the web so the stuff that gets cut off when on TV does show with web videos.

I am about to buy a 15 inch 720p hd TV as a monitor real soon, does anybody know if that will help???

Bo Sundvall · February 17th, 2010, 02:42 AM

Hi Danny

This phenomenon is known as overscan. I absolutely agree with you, it's really annoying and I don't know why Canon decided to use overscan on the LCD/EVF on the A1/A1s. I own both a XH-A1 and a HV20 and on the HV20 it's even worse. No WYSIWYG here.

There are two ways to get round the problem:

- Compensate for it while filming by zooming in a little bit.
- Correct it in post by zooming in 2-3%. (On my 42" plasma screen I can zoom in in post to 20% without seeing any noticeable degradation of the picture, at least in static scenes.)

Regards,

/Bo

Allan Black · February 17th, 2010, 04:11 AM

Another way is to mark up the LCD using these, there are different sizes.

Hoodman | HSK-3.0 Hoodskin LCD Screen Protector Film | SHSK 3

Cheers.

Danny Winn · February 17th, 2010, 10:32 PM

Not sure how that would help Allan, putting marks on those things anywhere within the viewfinder would make you film even more unwanted items, that's the problem. The entire viewfinder is not showing what you're actually filming.

The marks would have to be outside the viewfinder area to be accurate and of course there's no way that can work.

Am I missing something here?

Allan Black · February 18th, 2010, 05:49 PM

Hi Danny .. after I had the same problem I experimented and eventually drew fine lines 4mm around the inside edges of the LCD on a Hoodman.

At any time I know I have to zoom to just inside those lines which takes out overscan.

If I'm using the EVF I can also check the framing on the LCD. Outdoors in the bright sun I turn the LCD on 'bright' and use a Hoodman H400 to shade it.

Cheers.

Danny Winn · February 18th, 2010, 06:57 PM

Haha,

I guess I'm still not getting it Allan, I'm filming way more than the viewfinder is displaying already, so drawing lines inside the viewfinder and following those lines is still gonna leave me with way more than I want to film plus even more that I can't see outside the LCD viewing area.

So say I set up my shot with the lines 4mm inside the LCD that you suggest and I can't see the boom in the upper right corner of the LCD cause it's not displayed, then I get home and capture my footage. Now I see the Boom in the corner because it was filmed even though it was not displayed in the LCD viewfinder.

I don't get how drawing line inside the dimensions of the LCD would do any good.

I really appreciate you trying to help me though but I just dont get it. Hehe

The truth is, Canon should make the LCD viewfinder or monitor record exactly what you're seeing, no more, no less.

David Chilson · February 19th, 2010, 09:59 AM

Danny,

When you output to your monitor, use the HD/SD component out NOT the viewfinder component out to monitor your footage, that way you see what the camera sees, not what is being sent to the viewfinder and prevent this problem from happening.

For that footage you already have you can resize or pick up a copy of NewBlue FX (sp) it has a crop borders function that works pretty slick too. One time I had the hood on my 16x9 wide angle lens slip down (couldn't see it in the viewfinder) and every corner had a ugly little radius I was able to fix, so it saved a lot of footage.

Allan Black · February 19th, 2010, 01:59 PM

Danny yes they should let you see exactly what you're getting but they don't. My explanation is similar to Bo's when he said ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Sundvall

- Compensate for it while filming by zooming in a little bit.

So once you frame the shot, then zoom in to make those lines (drawn 4mm inside the outer edges of the LCD) the outside edges of your framed shot.

If you don't zoom in you see the 'boom' later, but by zooming in .. you lose 'the boom'.

HTH Cheers.

Danny Winn · February 19th, 2010, 02:07 PM

Yeah,

As I wrote in the very first thread comment, the zoom thing is what I currently do to compensate, but I just use the ending edges of the LCD instead of the lines you're taking about.

Just wasnt getting how the lines 4mm in would work any better than just zooming in from the edges of the LCD.

I appreciate it though brother, I think we can all agree that we'd like the "What ya see is what ya get" lcd or monitor;)

Mike Hammond · March 11th, 2010, 10:58 AM

Hi guys,

I'll be getting an xh-a1s soon. Am I to understand that there's no way to turn off overscan so that while I'm filming, I won't have to keep that in mind all the time?

Seems like a huge PITA when shooting events on the fly - another thing to worry about?

Thanks.

Bo Sundvall · March 12th, 2010, 02:56 AM

Hi Mike

That's corect, you can't turn this nice option off. See it as a bonus, you get more than you expect. :-)

Sometimes though, overscan can be positive as ordinary CRT televisions always has overscan to some degree. Don't know how LCD/Plasma screens behaves though.

I don't know how other brands behave. Perhaps someone with a Pana 151/171 or Sony Z5 might tell if the LCD:s on these also suffers from overscan.

Regards,

/Bo

Danny Winn · March 14th, 2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Hammond

Hi guys,

I'll be getting an xh-a1s soon. Am I to understand that there's no way to turn off overscan so that while I'm filming, I won't have to keep that in mind all the time?

Seems like a huge PITA when shooting events on the fly - another thing to worry about?

Thanks.

Yeah Mike, it is definitly a PITA. Know matter how you film with this camera you have to always keep in mind that you'll be filming slightly more than you're seeing in the viewfinder or your monitor.

Like I said before, I have learned to deal with it but it does take extra time to set up each shot making sure not to film mics, booms, lights and other items.

February 16th, 2010, 07:27 PM	#1
Danny Winn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 291	Frustrating problem with the XH A1s One thing that is really annoying with the A1s is that when you're shooting on location and use the viewfinder or even a 9 inch monitor in my case, then get back home and start capturing your footage, you start seeing the corner of a boom in the corner of your shot, or a mic cord in the bottom corner of the screen. These things were not seen in the viewfinder or the monitor. In otherwords, the camera films about 3 to 4 more inches than the displays are showing. I've learned to compensate for those added few inches now but occasionally I stil catch a corner of something unwanted in the shot. I wish the viewfinder and scene in the monitor was exactly what the camera was capturing. Most of my stuff goes on the web so the stuff that gets cut off when on TV does show with web videos. I am about to buy a 15 inch 720p hd TV as a monitor real soon, does anybody know if that will help???

February 17th, 2010, 04:11 AM	#3
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Another way is to mark up the LCD using these, there are different sizes. Hoodman \| HSK-3.0 Hoodskin LCD Screen Protector Film \| SHSK 3 Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

February 18th, 2010, 05:49 PM	#5
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Hi Danny .. after I had the same problem I experimented and eventually drew fine lines 4mm around the inside edges of the LCD on a Hoodman. At any time I know I have to zoom to just inside those lines which takes out overscan. If I'm using the EVF I can also check the framing on the LCD. Outdoors in the bright sun I turn the LCD on 'bright' and use a Hoodman H400 to shade it. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

February 19th, 2010, 09:59 AM	#7
David Chilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Walworth, NY Posts: 292	Danny, When you output to your monitor, use the HD/SD component out NOT the viewfinder component out to monitor your footage, that way you see what the camera sees, not what is being sent to the viewfinder and prevent this problem from happening. For that footage you already have you can resize or pick up a copy of NewBlue FX (sp) it has a crop borders function that works pretty slick too. One time I had the hood on my 16x9 wide angle lens slip down (couldn't see it in the viewfinder) and every corner had a ugly little radius I was able to fix, so it saved a lot of footage. __________________ Dave Chilson www.loc.org

February 17th, 2010, 02:42 AM	#2
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi Danny This phenomenon is known as overscan. I absolutely agree with you, it's really annoying and I don't know why Canon decided to use overscan on the LCD/EVF on the A1/A1s. I own both a XH-A1 and a HV20 and on the HV20 it's even worse. No WYSIWYG here. There are two ways to get round the problem: - Compensate for it while filming by zooming in a little bit. - Correct it in post by zooming in 2-3%. (On my 42" plasma screen I can zoom in in post to 20% without seeing any noticeable degradation of the picture, at least in static scenes.) Regards, /Bo

February 17th, 2010, 10:32 PM	#4
Danny Winn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 291	Not sure how that would help Allan, putting marks on those things anywhere within the viewfinder would make you film even more unwanted items, that's the problem. The entire viewfinder is not showing what you're actually filming. The marks would have to be outside the viewfinder area to be accurate and of course there's no way that can work. Am I missing something here?

February 18th, 2010, 06:57 PM	#6
Danny Winn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 291	Haha, I guess I'm still not getting it Allan, I'm filming way more than the viewfinder is displaying already, so drawing lines inside the viewfinder and following those lines is still gonna leave me with way more than I want to film plus even more that I can't see outside the LCD viewing area. So say I set up my shot with the lines 4mm inside the LCD that you suggest and I can't see the boom in the upper right corner of the LCD cause it's not displayed, then I get home and capture my footage. Now I see the Boom in the corner because it was filmed even though it was not displayed in the LCD viewfinder. I don't get how drawing line inside the dimensions of the LCD would do any good. I really appreciate you trying to help me though but I just dont get it. Hehe The truth is, Canon should make the LCD viewfinder or monitor record exactly what you're seeing, no more, no less.

February 19th, 2010, 02:07 PM	#9
Danny Winn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 291	Yeah, As I wrote in the very first thread comment, the zoom thing is what I currently do to compensate, but I just use the ending edges of the LCD instead of the lines you're taking about. Just wasnt getting how the lines 4mm in would work any better than just zooming in from the edges of the LCD. I appreciate it though brother, I think we can all agree that we'd like the "What ya see is what ya get" lcd or monitor;)

March 11th, 2010, 10:58 AM	#10
Mike Hammond Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Orange, NJ, U.S. Posts: 163	Hi guys, I'll be getting an xh-a1s soon. Am I to understand that there's no way to turn off overscan so that while I'm filming, I won't have to keep that in mind all the time? Seems like a huge PITA when shooting events on the fly - another thing to worry about? Thanks.

March 12th, 2010, 02:56 AM	#11
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi Mike That's corect, you can't turn this nice option off. See it as a bonus, you get more than you expect. :-) Sometimes though, overscan can be positive as ordinary CRT televisions always has overscan to some degree. Don't know how LCD/Plasma screens behaves though. I don't know how other brands behave. Perhaps someone with a Pana 151/171 or Sony Z5 might tell if the LCD:s on these also suffers from overscan. Regards, /Bo