interlaced or progressive? at DVinfo.net

Caleb Brewer · November 12th, 2006, 06:52 PM

Ok you guys have really got me interested in this camera. I have something that has been confusing me and it seems to be going around.

Let me see if I have this right. The A1's CCDs are interlaced but it writes a progressive image without deinterlaceing. (if this is true) Why does the camera have 1080i on the side and back?
Also it can record at: (1080 24F). (1080 30F), and (1080 60i) Right?

Raymond Toussaint · November 12th, 2006, 07:33 PM

What's written on the cam doesn't matter: if it appears to be progressive and feels and looks like progressive, it is progressive to me. The chips are interlaced, the vertical res. will loose a little, but at the end remains a look (F-mode) with high resolution and a progressive 'feel'. Whats in a name?

BTW. They asked not to start a F-mode versus progressive discussion without new info what F mode really is. I think that is a good statement. Just look at it.

Chris Hurd · November 12th, 2006, 07:44 PM

This camera operates at 1080i60, 1080p30 and 1080p24. For all intents and purposes, Frame mode is progressive scan. For example, as far as Final Cut Pro is concerned, there's no real difference between Frame mode and progressive scan. The capture setting used to get 24F Frame mode into a Final Cut editing system is HDV 1080 24P. Hope this helps,

Caleb Brewer · November 12th, 2006, 08:14 PM

Thanks Raymond and Chris for the info.
Do you know about how much rez is lost?

I don't want to start a back and forth about which is better 24P of 24F. That wasn't my intention.

Bill Pryor · November 12th, 2006, 08:21 PM

From everything I've read there may be a little vertical resolution loss but probably not noticeable to most eyes. I think the upcoming Sony V1 1/4" CMOS chip camera with 24p also uses interlaced chips but gets the progressive frames from them. In my opinion we often make too much out of wanting great resolution. Good resolution is, of course, good. But these new HDV cameras all have incredible resolution for the size chips they use. I've seen excellent movies blown up to 35mm shot with everything from XL1s to PD150s to lots of other video cameras, and if a PD150 can shoot good enough footage for a 35mm print that a distributor will buy, then I'm quite sure any of the new 1/3" chip cameras can do the same thing even better. Remember that Lars von Trier won the Palme d'Or for "Dancer in the Dark," most of which was shot with 100 PD100s.

Pete Bauer · November 12th, 2006, 09:36 PM

Caleb, just browse through the XL H1 forum or keyword search it and you'll find lots -- way too many -- posts about it, many that include links to rez charts and clips. Get a beverage first though, it'll take a while to read through it all...in addition to the facts, it seemed to become an emotional topic that generated too much speculation and FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt). Happy reading!

Bill Pryor · November 13th, 2006, 02:36 PM

My main interest in 24F(P) is not so much resolution as to not have interlace artifacts when exporting a finished project for DVD authoring, and to save space (24 is less than 30, last time I looked).

November 12th, 2006, 06:52 PM	#1
Caleb Brewer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jackson, TN Posts: 7	interlaced or progressive? Ok you guys have really got me interested in this camera. I have something that has been confusing me and it seems to be going around. Let me see if I have this right. The A1's CCDs are interlaced but it writes a progressive image without deinterlaceing. (if this is true) Why does the camera have 1080i on the side and back? Also it can record at: (1080 24F). (1080 30F), and (1080 60i) Right?

November 12th, 2006, 07:44 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	This camera operates at 1080i60, 1080p30 and 1080p24. For all intents and purposes, Frame mode is progressive scan. For example, as far as Final Cut Pro is concerned, there's no real difference between Frame mode and progressive scan. The capture setting used to get 24F Frame mode into a Final Cut editing system is HDV 1080 24P. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 12th, 2006, 09:36 PM	#6
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Caleb, just browse through the XL H1 forum or keyword search it and you'll find lots -- way too many -- posts about it, many that include links to rez charts and clips. Get a beverage first though, it'll take a while to read through it all...in addition to the facts, it seemed to become an emotional topic that generated too much speculation and FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt). Happy reading! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

November 12th, 2006, 07:33 PM	#2
Raymond Toussaint Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 173	What's written on the cam doesn't matter: if it appears to be progressive and feels and looks like progressive, it is progressive to me. The chips are interlaced, the vertical res. will loose a little, but at the end remains a look (F-mode) with high resolution and a progressive 'feel'. Whats in a name? BTW. They asked not to start a F-mode versus progressive discussion without new info what F mode really is. I think that is a good statement. Just look at it.

November 12th, 2006, 08:14 PM	#4
Caleb Brewer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jackson, TN Posts: 7	Thanks Raymond and Chris for the info. Do you know about how much rez is lost? I don't want to start a back and forth about which is better 24P of 24F. That wasn't my intention.

November 12th, 2006, 08:21 PM	#5
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	From everything I've read there may be a little vertical resolution loss but probably not noticeable to most eyes. I think the upcoming Sony V1 1/4" CMOS chip camera with 24p also uses interlaced chips but gets the progressive frames from them. In my opinion we often make too much out of wanting great resolution. Good resolution is, of course, good. But these new HDV cameras all have incredible resolution for the size chips they use. I've seen excellent movies blown up to 35mm shot with everything from XL1s to PD150s to lots of other video cameras, and if a PD150 can shoot good enough footage for a 35mm print that a distributor will buy, then I'm quite sure any of the new 1/3" chip cameras can do the same thing even better. Remember that Lars von Trier won the Palme d'Or for "Dancer in the Dark," most of which was shot with 100 PD100s.

November 13th, 2006, 02:36 PM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	My main interest in 24F(P) is not so much resolution as to not have interlace artifacts when exporting a finished project for DVD authoring, and to save space (24 is less than 30, last time I looked).