24F & 30F question at DVinfo.net

Devon Lyon · November 13th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Hope someone can help with the following question (Chris, if this isn't the right place, please feel free to send me elsewhere):

I have shot a bunch of test footage with my XH-A1 in 24F and 30F and imported and edited on PPro 2.0 via Cineform Aspect HD. I've exported as .mov and .avi and as MPEG-2 DVD both through Adobe Media Encoder and through TMPGEnc. I kept the settings at the progressive, or no fields, settings. The footage looks fantastic on my HD LCD TV and on my rear projection screen TV, but I notice interlace "teeth" on the edges of moving objects when viewed on my Sony WEGA CRT TV.

Any ideas why I only see the "teeth" on the CRT? Any initial ideas of what I'm doing wrong?

Would very much appreicate any insight! Thanks guys (and gals).

Chris Hurd · November 13th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Hmm... don't know if this should go to our Cineform forum or our Premiere forum...

Devon Lyon · November 13th, 2006, 05:23 PM

Wondered the same thing, but I know a lot of people are currently readling this thread and hoped they might be able to help...

Steve Nunez · November 13th, 2006, 05:49 PM

Perhaps this is an issue with the TV set itself as the other sets didn't seem to interlace the footage....can't wait to hear the end result of this one.

Devon Lyon · November 13th, 2006, 05:54 PM

I am currently trying a bunch of different variations on my export MPEG2 creation.

Steve, I agree, but could it be because the other two sets are not CRTs? It is a nice Sony TV and the DVD player is Sony that reads progressive DVDs. Odd I know...I will keep trying to figure it out.

Caleb Brewer · November 13th, 2006, 06:05 PM

I don't have an A1 so I don't know about that but you could play it on another CRT TV and see if it does the same.
It could be the player.
Does anything else you play on that TV and DVD player have any problems?

Henry Cho · November 13th, 2006, 06:06 PM

devon,

in premiere's export movie settings, can you verify that "keyframing and rendering" is set to "no fields"? even when working in a progressive project, premiere defaults to "lower field first" when exporting a movie file.

Devon Lyon · November 13th, 2006, 06:11 PM

Henry:

Will do, I have a bunch of different tests that I will try at home tonight on my Sony CRT and will also try and find a different CRT/DVD combination.

Also, does anyone know what GOP settings we should use for 24f and for 30f when rendering out MPEGs? There is a setting for "M Frame" and a setting for "N Frame".

Jack Jenkins · November 13th, 2006, 06:15 PM

What is your dvd player set at? Mine has an option for 720p or 1080i.

Devon Lyon · November 13th, 2006, 09:32 PM

OK. I am now about 97% sure it is because the DVD player (Sony with progressive scan) that is hooked up to the TV will not play progressive scan DVDs properly (i.e., showing the "teeth") because I don't have it hooked up with component cables. When I tried to activate the progressive function it wouldn't work.

Sorry for asking the question, but I thought the DVD player was working properly. Add to that the fact that I thought the reason the clips looked fine on my HD LCD TV and my HD rear projection screen was because they were not CRT tubes, I think you can understand my confusion.

Two more things. I can now verify, without doubt, that HD footage captured to PPro 2.0 via Cineform Aspect HD and then rendered as a SD MPEG2 DVD looks MUCH better (seriously) when created through TMPEGenc then through Adobe Media Encoder. I have tested this a few times, with a few clips and asked two other people to give me their opinion. It requires an extra step because you need to render out your final file vial PPRo export > Movie > Cineform HD .avi file and then import into TMPEGenc, but there is a noticable difference.

Sorry for the long post, but can anyone please explain the GOP settings? What should M Frame and N Frame be set to for 30f and 24f footage?

November 13th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#1
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	24F & 30F question Hope someone can help with the following question (Chris, if this isn't the right place, please feel free to send me elsewhere): I have shot a bunch of test footage with my XH-A1 in 24F and 30F and imported and edited on PPro 2.0 via Cineform Aspect HD. I've exported as .mov and .avi and as MPEG-2 DVD both through Adobe Media Encoder and through TMPGEnc. I kept the settings at the progressive, or no fields, settings. The footage looks fantastic on my HD LCD TV and on my rear projection screen TV, but I notice interlace "teeth" on the edges of moving objects when viewed on my Sony WEGA CRT TV. Any ideas why I only see the "teeth" on the CRT? Any initial ideas of what I'm doing wrong? Would very much appreicate any insight! Thanks guys (and gals). __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 13th, 2006, 05:18 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hmm... don't know if this should go to our Cineform forum or our Premiere forum... __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 13th, 2006, 05:23 PM	#3
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	Wondered the same thing, but I know a lot of people are currently readling this thread and hoped they might be able to help... __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 13th, 2006, 05:49 PM	#4
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Perhaps this is an issue with the TV set itself as the other sets didn't seem to interlace the footage....can't wait to hear the end result of this one. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 13th, 2006, 05:54 PM	#5
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	I am currently trying a bunch of different variations on my export MPEG2 creation. Steve, I agree, but could it be because the other two sets are not CRTs? It is a nice Sony TV and the DVD player is Sony that reads progressive DVDs. Odd I know...I will keep trying to figure it out. __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 13th, 2006, 06:05 PM	#6
Caleb Brewer New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jackson, TN Posts: 7	I don't have an A1 so I don't know about that but you could play it on another CRT TV and see if it does the same. It could be the player. Does anything else you play on that TV and DVD player have any problems? __________________ Adobe Production Studio --

November 13th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#7
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	devon, in premiere's export movie settings, can you verify that "keyframing and rendering" is set to "no fields"? even when working in a progressive project, premiere defaults to "lower field first" when exporting a movie file.

November 13th, 2006, 06:11 PM	#8
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	Henry: Will do, I have a bunch of different tests that I will try at home tonight on my Sony CRT and will also try and find a different CRT/DVD combination. Also, does anyone know what GOP settings we should use for 24f and for 30f when rendering out MPEGs? There is a setting for "M Frame" and a setting for "N Frame". __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 13th, 2006, 06:15 PM	#9
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	What is your dvd player set at? Mine has an option for 720p or 1080i.

November 13th, 2006, 09:32 PM	#10
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	OK. I am now about 97% sure it is because the DVD player (Sony with progressive scan) that is hooked up to the TV will not play progressive scan DVDs properly (i.e., showing the "teeth") because I don't have it hooked up with component cables. When I tried to activate the progressive function it wouldn't work. Sorry for asking the question, but I thought the DVD player was working properly. Add to that the fact that I thought the reason the clips looked fine on my HD LCD TV and my HD rear projection screen was because they were not CRT tubes, I think you can understand my confusion. Two more things. I can now verify, without doubt, that HD footage captured to PPro 2.0 via Cineform Aspect HD and then rendered as a SD MPEG2 DVD looks MUCH better (seriously) when created through TMPEGenc then through Adobe Media Encoder. I have tested this a few times, with a few clips and asked two other people to give me their opinion. It requires an extra step because you need to render out your final file vial PPRo export > Movie > Cineform HD .avi file and then import into TMPEGenc, but there is a noticable difference. Sorry for the long post, but can anyone please explain the GOP settings? What should M Frame and N Frame be set to for 30f and 24f footage? __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;