Remove The Cassette
 

If I load a tape when my A1 is in 'play' or 'record' mode, half of the time
it won't accept the tape and and issues the 'Remove The Cassette' message. However if I load a tape when the unit is 'off' it works fine. [Perhaps a tape-tension test is being bypassed this way??? -- is this ill-advised?]

It has been this way since I first got it. I use Panasonic MiniDV Master tapes (AY-DVM63MQ).

I'm reluctant to send the unit in for repair now because it is otherwise working fine and I want to use it for some upcoming events. Any advice, warnings?

That is a big concern. Hopefully it is not a big problem like on the GL series. I had so many problems with my GL2 I swore I would never buy from Canon again, due to technical incompitencies and not having a working camcorder for over 3 months. I was furious that I kept having problems and they keps sending it back to me with different problems, but anger subsided and I couldn't resist the new XH-A1.

Anyhow, I hope that this doesn't become a large problem. I am very happy with mine, and no problems so far.

I would suggest sending it in after you don't need it for a while, cause who know how long it will take.

I am sure that they would make it a priority to fix, the last thing Canon needs is bad publicity for the camcorder, that is sweeping up the marketplace right now.

Steve -

Did you try other tapes (Sony)? What about included HDV tape? Does the same problem occur then?

I'm using the AMQ (Advance Master Quality) tapes in mine. No problems at all. What you're seeing is definitely not normal.

Holly, 3 months? Ugh! Were you wrangling with one of the Canon Factory Service Centers? (I had great service from Mack Camera with my GL2).

Adrian, my impression was that the manufactures behind the HD standard defined it so they could re-use/leverage certain existing technologies (including DV tape drives) in their new product lines. Oh well...

Bogdan, I just got that Canon tape that came with the A1 kit and tried it for the first time. Same thing -- loaded 2 out of 4 times. When it fails initially it sounds like a normal load but then you hear a rewind sound for four/five seconds, then it stops and issues the message.

Bill, I agree. This is a problem with my unit. (There is no way this behaviour could be considered normal).

Thanks everyone!

Steven, since you're in the middle of the country, you have your choice between the two CUSA video service centers. The phone number for the one in Jamesburg, NJ is (732) 521-7007 and the phone number for the one in Irvine, CA is (949) 753-4200. Hope this helps,

Steven,

I actually sent in in 4 times, each time it had a new problem and the original problem wasn't fixed, each time they said it met factory specs. I ended up selling it for cheap because they still coudln't fix it (they messed up the focus, it wouldn't hold focus or respond to manual focusing.) I couldn't deal with their incompitence any longer.

I wrote an email to the vice president and no response, not paid work and about quit videography because of it.

I swore I wouldn't buy Canon again, but this camcorder caught my eye, and I am in love with it.

It is to bad that the remove cassette happened to you.

Can this problem crop up after the warranty's deadline ?

I am sure it can happen after warranty, I am not sure what would stop it from happening. When it does, Canon will charge you for it, because in there words "we haven't heard of this before" and "this is new to us."

If the problem is widespread, I'd imagine we'd have heard from H1 owners with the problem. I'm assuming that Canon uses the same transport for the H1 as the A1 and G1.

There may be components in common, but the tape mechansm of the XL H1 is different. With the GL2 and XH cameras, you have to push in the tape slot to close, whereas the XL H1 tape slot retracts automatically.

According to the Canon web site, the GL2's Remove Cassette error is fairly generic and can be due to a number of possible causes, some benign and temporary, others requiring repair. Any mechanical device can fail, but by definition a well designed gizmo does so much less often. Let's hope that the tape mechanism has been beefed up and Steven's problem is a rare anomaly.

Holly, sorry to hear you had such difficulties. A lot of states have lemon laws, usually something on the order of mandating replacement or refund in full after 3 failed repair attempts for a problem that occurs within the bounds of a warranty. Generally, you're out of luck if the problem is outside the warranty, either in time or as an exclusion (as an aside, I'll reiterate my gripe that Canon has placed these cameras in their new professional line, yet at last read a few weeks ago, the warranties still exclude professional use.). In any case, I don't think you'd have been out of line demanding a replacement unit after four failed repair attempts regardless of warranty status.

I searched the forums for the gl2 tape drive error and found what is causing this malfunction. Seems that the same drive of the GL2 is being used with the A1 :(. This is what I found :

"I am lucky and have a repair facility locally. I got to know the tech in the process of figuring out the problem. Basically according to the tech the pinch rollers have to be replaced. It is part of the tape drive mechanism. The tech told me that the motors try to place a specific amount of tension on the tape as it is pulled over the heads. I guess the pinch rollers are a little set of gears that help keep the pressure constant. If the pressure varies just the tiniest bit it stops and wants to eject the tape because it thinks the tape has ended or something."

It wouldn't be a surprise if the XH tape mechanism was essentially the same as the one as the GL2's but I don't think we know that for a fact. The quote Adrian mentioned came from near the end of this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=30557

Here is a link to the GL2 advisory, which does indicate that there are a number of possible causes for the "Remove the Cassette" message:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...7&modelid=7512

We shall see if other cases of XH tape mechanism problems turn up. Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. For now, Steven is unlucky enough to need warranty service or replacement "out of the box" but so far I think he's the only one?

I find it quite strange how a camcorder which costs $3999 tends to have a defective tape drive while a consumer camcorder which costs about $500 works perfectly :S

I think this thread should be a sticky.

interestingly enough, my 3+ (?) year old canon elura 40 minidv cam which has a very similar action as the A1 (e.g. put the tape in and it retracts automatically) has worked flawlessly for years, even when other stuff failed.

each time I see the tape retracting on that one, I wonder how long till that thing breaks, but it's been flawless...

I know this doesn't help on the A1 but I couldn't help but reply to the above...

This is no different than buying a new car and having to take it in to fix a bug. There will be occasional units that slip out with a defect from time to time.
Over the last 7 years I've had my GL1 and GL2 in for service a two or three times each (not bad considering the abuse that gets heaped on them shooting weddings and events)
Canon service has given me free service on a few occasions even though the equipment or service warranty had expired. They've screwed up a few times and not fixed the problem right first time, but unfortunately thats also the same thing as taking your car in to get it fixed as well. People are human and they make mistakes.
My A1 works fine so far ythough I've only used it for one gig.
Andy

No way. We're talking about *one* person who has an issue. The majority of folks are saying that they're not having any trouble at all. This thread is not going to be a "sticky" unless a lot of people are experiencing a problem, and so far that's not the case.

I'm very much against F.U.D. (fear, uncertainty and doubt), and if I stickied this thread then I would be guilty of spreading F.U.D., which would not be fair to anybody. Steven's particular issue seems to be one of a kind so far. Let's not lose our heads, please (heh) -- thanks in advance,

Cheers to that Chris. Mine has operated perfectly.

I had a GL-2 for over three years, as well as two one-chip Canons. They all gave this error once in a awhile but reinserting the tape once took care of it and it was never a problem. I was somewhat disappointed by the drop out rate that I started seeing after about 20 hours on the heads on two of these cameras. The GL-2 never got bad but I would see one or two drop outs per tape even after a factory service.

I hope things go somewhat better with the A1 I have on order.

By the way I just sold my GL-2 on ebay for $1400. I am amazed with the way the value has held up on these cameras. I paid maybe $2400 for the camera and a wide angle lens three years ago. To refer to another thread on this topic, I told my wife how much I got for the GL-2 but am being a bit vague about how much the A1 will cost :)

GL2 vs A1 Tape Mechanisms
 

I have used a GL2 for the past 3.5 years and ran hundres of tapes through it. I did have a tape handling related problem once and it was handled under a Mack warranty. I know some one else said the tape mechanisms are the same in these two cameras, but they sound very different to my ear.

I too have had my GL2 for at least three years now and have recorded in hundreds of tapes. I have never had any issue other than the occasional request for a head cleaning tape to be inserted.

Other than that the GL2 was never let me down.

I just took ownership of an XH-A1 two weeks ago though and just got back from Hawaii and my first real use of the A1. I recorded 11 tapes worth of the parties and bbq's I was attending. I just got it all captured last night and the stuff I've looked at so far is outstanding even in the low light shots.

I loved my GL2 but I knew I'd be getting a A1 when I saw the announcement.

So this shouldn't be a cause for concern as it is something which happens rarely and can be fixed easily. There is one solution though : Firestore.........

There should be no concern at this point, but if more users complain, then there might be issues of concern.

I am just happy to have such a fabulous cam.

I haven't had any problem. I thought at first the cassette didn't want to eject, but the door was pushing up against the hand strap that was too tight and hadn't opened all the way.

Well there are at least 2
 

I have an identical problem to Steven's, except that it doesn't matter what mode my camera is in. The tape is frequently rejected (This happens with JVC, Canon, and Panasonic Tapes) on first insertion. However, the tape is always accepted if you just shut the door the 2nd time. A minor annoyance, and I just haven't had a chance to have it checked out by Canon.

So by no means is this an isolated incident, and I feel that it is being under-reported, simply because it is an annoyance but doesn't prevent users from using their cameras. I have used mine for 2.5 months now, and finally decided to search if others were having similar problems.

Regarding the following statement by Adrian Paul Spiteri:

"I am lucky and have a repair facility locally. I got to know the tech in the process of figuring out the problem. Basically according to the tech the pinch rollers have to be replaced. It is part of the tape drive mechanism. The tech told me that the motors try to place a specific amount of tension on the tape as it is pulled over the heads. I guess the pinch rollers are a little set of gears that help keep the pressure constant. If the pressure varies just the tiniest bit it stops and wants to eject the tape because it thinks the tape has ended or something."

I am the one quoted in that statement. After the GL2 fiasco I swore off ever getting a Canon as well but the A1 changed my mind. Every time I insert the cassette I wonder if it will pop up again on me. I am really hoping it is a different or updated tape mechanism. I don't want to go through the hassle again....at least my local tech has an idea of how to get it fixed though. Whoever had the original problem in this post, if you are located in the middle of the US, there is a repair facility here in Wisconsin that is familiar with the problem in GL2s and may have an idea of how to fix it...especially if still in warranty.

Hi Nick, you are being careful and making sure to push the tape transport chassis before actually shutting the door, right?

Yes I am closing the loading mechanism before the door. I'd hope I wouldn't overlook the big yellow, do not press, and press here labels. (I first thought it was some sort of user error, but after shutting the mechanism in a variety of ways, with various tapes, I can guarantee that it is a mechanical problem. However I am still at a loss as to why the tape is always accepted upon the 2nd closing). I submitted the problem to Canon, and I'll post an update here if they tell me anything interesting. Now I just need to plan a week or so where I can part with it for repair.

Man, I apologize for asking you that question, but you'd be surprised how many people miss that step.

I had this problem on an out of warranty gl2 some years back. The warning almost always cleared up if I just removed the battery. Started intermittent and then became consistent almost every time I rewound the tape, and often at the beginning of a tape. Sometimes had to remove the battery 2 or 3 times before the error cleared.

As a last resort before sending it back to Canon I followed some instructions I found here about dripping some lens cleaner onto a particular cog in the tape transport. This worked immediately but the problem came back after a day or two. After half a dozen applications the problem went away and never returned.

Am I missing something? Why would you try and load a tape in play or record mode? I would not think that would be possible.

i have used a gl1 for 6 years and never, never had a load problem. occasional drop outs..but i never cleaned the heads...used in se alaska, mountain biking, skiing, backpacking...beat it up, fell on it over the handlebars on a bike filming while descending a gnarly trail in bc. cant speak highly enough....however i had a burned pixel, and 5 trips back and forth with accumulative damage, tracked that the shipper wasnt packing it right..only giving one wrap of paper. last time lens was broken, microphone boom broken. i contacted customer relations at canon in new york...and they replaced it with a new gl2. i traded up with a canon dealer in seattle to an xh a1, and have nothing but raves.

i use only panasonic tapes..with the exception of using sony a couple times in the gl1. i now use the panasonic amq, the same cut as the sony high end tapes but for less price. had used the xh a1 in terrible weather on vancouver west coast last week and we experienced a lot of rain. the camera got wet, condensation, even though i did my best to prevent it. operated flawlessly with no error messages. it is a great camera so far, and operated in difficult marine conditions. wether those effects are accumulative i do not know. but i cant say enough about the quality of this camera.

Interesting.

I actually never intentionally tried to reload tape while any of my camcorders where in play or record. I seem to remember accidentally trying it and one of the machines just refusing to open.

Anyway, I unintentionally did it with the A1 this week and got the error message. Turned it off and reloaded. Works fine.

Except for this thread I probably would have assumed that this is normal.

Wrong?

While I can't definitively speak for Steven and his problem, I assume by play and record mode, he simply means the camera is on (Not currently recording or playing, but simply in standby, such as in Tv with the tape stopped). No one is talking about trying to insert or remove tapes while the tape is running.

No problem at all, when I diagnose computer problems over the phone and need to make sure the power cord or something else simple is plugged in, I always tell the individuals to unplug it on both ends, then plug it back in. As many individuals just say, "Well OF COURSE it is plugged in, I'm not that dumb!" At which point they see a power cord laying next to the power outlet...

Me too. But.... my A1 only takes tapes without exception when the dial is turned to "off". Is it broken or working the way it should?

So say you are in Av mode but not recording, if you open the door to the tape mechanism, it doesn't eject the tape? That seems kind of odd, as if you needed to do a quick tape change, it would be a pain to have to turn the whole system off, reload, then start up again.

My A1 will eject and load tapes when the dial is set to off, or any of the other recording modes. But the problem I am having with the tape being rejected the first time happens in all modes as well.

I can eject from a recording mode, but when I try to reload without going to "off", the A1 tells me to take the tape out. I just turn it off then load and things are fine. I thought it was my fault for not turning it off.

I haven't really experimented, kinda didn't want to break something.

Yeah, you are fine to open the door no matter what the mode. If it wasn't ready to eject the tape, it wouldn't let you. In the manual page 23 at the bottom it also mentions that it will eject/load tapes no matter what the dial is set to.

However, your issue seems similar to mine. If you would, do as you have been doing, and after you load a new tape and it says to remove it, simply close the door a second time and see if it accepts it.

It should not be doing that. It should be able to load tape in any of the modes.
When you close the cassette tape well, be careful to close it by only pushing on the corner of the door mechanism closest to you. On mine it's marked with a yellow tab.