Pal Users-frame Rate Advice at DVinfo.net

Alastair Brown · February 11th, 2007, 04:32 PM

I looking at oage 38 of the manual and it's really not giving me any background as to the what why and whens of shooting on either 50i mode and 25F Mode.

Could somebody write a description of the advantages/dis-advantages of these settings and which are either better suited to certain applications.

I'm pretty confused by this.

Neil McLean · February 11th, 2007, 04:51 PM

Hello Alastair,

UIAM you can select from frame modes of 50i or 25F with the 25F cine mode giving a cine-quality look and feel.

Neil

Josh Dahlberg · February 11th, 2007, 09:31 PM

50i
- good for 'reality' look, news and sports as motion is smoother

25f
- use this for a 'cine' look as this is very close to film's 24fps cadence. Be careful with pans (make 'em slow) as there is a stutter to this look. This mode mimics progressive scan, but suffers a 10-20% horizontal resolution loss (which is pretty hard to notice).

People doing indie film work definitely prefer the 25f mode, no question, and there are some users on this board who use it exclusively. But get a feel for both styles and figure out your own preference.

Try both modes, then freeze some frames once you've recorded them in your NLE. You will be able to see the difference clearly. The 50i frames will be composed of two separate fields (frame grabs look nasty where motion is present) blended together, whereas the 25p frames will appear as one complete image. Also try some quick pans in both modes as well as some shot of cars or people passing quicky. You'll soon see the difference in motion, one smooth, the other with a stutter.

Alastair Brown · February 12th, 2007, 05:05 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to be shooting mainly weddings, so would I be right in saying that the cinematic feel of 25f would be better suited?

Neil McLean · February 12th, 2007, 05:14 AM

Alastair,

Have a look at Joe Simon's thread http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81810

From what I can gather he films weddings in Louisiana, though he tends to use 24f.

I would suggest having a good play around with the A1. Film the same scenes using different presets/customs and talk into the mic to remind yourself of the camera set-up for each scene, e.g. 50i, 25f, 24f.

Good luck
Neil

Alex Leith · February 12th, 2007, 06:50 AM

Personally I shoot almost everything in 25F. We're so used to seeing progressive used on TV in the PAL world that there is less and less being shot at 50i.

Of course it's subjective, but I prefer the aesthetic quality of 25F. And as long as you keep your shutter speed at 1/50 you're not really going to have problems with stutter on pans. Stutter is mostly an artefact of pulldown from 24p to 60i.

Piotr Wozniacki · February 12th, 2007, 07:20 AM

I second that, Alex; in fact even with shutter at 1/25th I don't find the stutter to be very annoying, and this gives a lot better lowlight performace!

Brando Ng · February 12th, 2007, 07:45 AM

Here are very good presentation,

60i, or you can think it is 50i
http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/1107288

24F, or you can think it is 25F
http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/1107257

February 11th, 2007, 04:32 PM	#1
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Pal Users-frame Rate Advice I looking at oage 38 of the manual and it's really not giving me any background as to the what why and whens of shooting on either 50i mode and 25F Mode. Could somebody write a description of the advantages/dis-advantages of these settings and which are either better suited to certain applications. I'm pretty confused by this.

February 12th, 2007, 06:50 AM	#6
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	Personally I shoot almost everything in 25F. We're so used to seeing progressive used on TV in the PAL world that there is less and less being shot at 50i. Of course it's subjective, but I prefer the aesthetic quality of 25F. And as long as you keep your shutter speed at 1/50 you're not really going to have problems with stutter on pans. Stutter is mostly an artefact of pulldown from 24p to 60i. __________________ Alex

February 12th, 2007, 07:20 AM	#7
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I second that, Alex; in fact even with shutter at 1/25th I don't find the stutter to be very annoying, and this gives a lot better lowlight performace! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 11th, 2007, 04:51 PM	#2
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	Hello Alastair, UIAM you can select from frame modes of 50i or 25F with the 25F cine mode giving a cine-quality look and feel. Neil

February 11th, 2007, 09:31 PM	#3
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	50i - good for 'reality' look, news and sports as motion is smoother 25f - use this for a 'cine' look as this is very close to film's 24fps cadence. Be careful with pans (make 'em slow) as there is a stutter to this look. This mode mimics progressive scan, but suffers a 10-20% horizontal resolution loss (which is pretty hard to notice). People doing indie film work definitely prefer the 25f mode, no question, and there are some users on this board who use it exclusively. But get a feel for both styles and figure out your own preference. Try both modes, then freeze some frames once you've recorded them in your NLE. You will be able to see the difference clearly. The 50i frames will be composed of two separate fields (frame grabs look nasty where motion is present) blended together, whereas the 25p frames will appear as one complete image. Also try some quick pans in both modes as well as some shot of cars or people passing quicky. You'll soon see the difference in motion, one smooth, the other with a stutter.

February 12th, 2007, 05:05 AM	#4
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Thanks for the replies. I'm going to be shooting mainly weddings, so would I be right in saying that the cinematic feel of 25f would be better suited?

February 12th, 2007, 05:14 AM	#5
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	Alastair, Have a look at Joe Simon's thread http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81810 From what I can gather he films weddings in Louisiana, though he tends to use 24f. I would suggest having a good play around with the A1. Film the same scenes using different presets/customs and talk into the mic to remind yourself of the camera set-up for each scene, e.g. 50i, 25f, 24f. Good luck Neil

February 12th, 2007, 07:45 AM	#8
Brando Ng New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 10	Here are very good presentation, 60i, or you can think it is 50i http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/1107288 24F, or you can think it is 25F http://stage6.divx.com/content/show/1107257