Having problem with SD (native and down-converted)

[Luis Rolo]

Originally Posted by Richard Hunter

Hi Luis. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. I've just tried a render from a Vegas 25p HDV timeline using 25F footage from the A1. If I select the Quicktime DV codec I see stairstepping on diagonal lines, but if I use the Vegas DV codec (AVI) there is no problem. The AVI colours are much richer as well. Seems to me that QT7 must have some problems rendering progressive footage to certain output formats. DV is not really supposed to be progressive, so maybe that's part of the problem.

Richard

Thanks everybody.
So, Richard, it seems i'm in trouble, since i'm on a mac and it's all done around QT...

[Richard Hunter]

Originally Posted by Luis Rolo

Thanks everybody.
So, Richard, it seems i'm in trouble, since i'm on a mac and it's all done around QT...

Hi Luis. Well you could choose a different codec for the output. It doesn't have to be DV, does it? What happens if you render as MPEG2 and burn it to DVD?

Richard

[Luis Rolo]

OK! Problem solved!
And the solution it's a very strange one...
Even with progressive footage, i must export it as interlaced to DV.
After that, the DV and the mpeg2 files were fine.
I'm happy because i solved the problem, but it doesn't make any sense.

[Richard Hunter]

Hi Luis. That's good news, glad you got it working.

Richard

[Luis Rolo]

OK, i think i opened my mouth too early.
Everything is fine 'till i make the DVD. The DVD got the strange lines and some flickering again.
I'm going to try to post this in the Mac forum to see if i can get some more help, because it seems to me some kind of problem with QT.

[John L. Miller]

Hi Luis, I have been fighting the same thing although I am Using PC with Vegas and Architect. I finally got rid of the lines completely, I ended up rendering my project to a .wmv file in HD. Then let Architect rerender the file for DVD and I clicked "reduce interlace flicker" before the rerender. It came out beautiful, No problems at all. I was able to get the same result rendering directly to SD by upping my bitrates and then making sure I clicked "reduce interlace flicker". Silly since its all progressive, but whatever works.

[Richard Hunter]

Originally Posted by Luis Rolo

OK, i think i opened my mouth too early.
Everything is fine 'till i make the DVD. The DVD got the strange lines and some flickering again.
I'm going to try to post this in the Mac forum to see if i can get some more help, because it seems to me some kind of problem with QT.

Hi Luis. How are you watching the DVD? Is it on a computer, TV or what? Also, when you make the MPEG2 file for the DVD, does it follow the standard, i.e. interlaced, Upper Field First, or is it progressive?

Richard

[Luis Rolo]

Originally Posted by Richard Hunter

Hi Luis. How are you watching the DVD? Is it on a computer, TV or what? Also, when you make the MPEG2 file for the DVD, does it follow the standard, i.e. interlaced, Upper Field First, or is it progressive?

Richard

I'm watching on both computer and TV.
Right now i'm getting better results if i bypass the DV conversion and go directly to mpeg2, but it's not perfect yet. And i'm also having better results with "upper field".

[Alvise Tedesco]

Such a shame I didn't see this thread before!
I needed an XH-A1 for a job in Moscow I'll have next week. I bought one thinking it was on a pair with my DVX in SD (I'm not mentioning the nice and sharp hdv image).
I am stupid, since I din't test it personally BEFORE buying!!

I can't believe how many people don't see and don't mind for this horrible aliasing in SD. It turns out I'll sell it the day after I come back from Moscow, because (unfortunately) I'll need HD/HDV only when clients will ask for it.

From a professional point of view, this camera is unusable in SD

Cheers

[Amie Spiridigliozzi]

Anyone use New Tek's VT4? I have the lines problem in SD and I think a little in HD. Anyone know how to get rid of them in MY editing system. I use DVD Workshop to create the DVD.

[Mark Fry]

Originally Posted by Alvise Tedesco

Such a shame I didn't see this thread before!
I needed an XH-A1 for a job in Moscow I'll have next week. I bought one thinking it was on a pair with my DVX in SD (I'm not mentioning the nice and sharp hdv image).
I am stupid, since I din't test it personally BEFORE buying!!

I can't believe how many people don't see and don't mind for this horrible aliasing in SD. It turns out I'll sell it the day after I come back from Moscow, because (unfortunately) I'll need HD/HDV only when clients will ask for it.

From a professional point of view, this camera is unusable in SD

Cheers

No, it's not unusable for SD production. Down-conversion from the camera is viable in some cases, but the quality is generally reckoned to be better when done in software. I shoot and edit HDV then do the conversion on my PC at the end of the edit. As mentioned above, some NLEs do a good job of the down-conversion (I use Avid Liquid 7.2 which creates very good-looking PAL DVDs from 1080/50i footage), but if you have problems you can try MPEG Stream Clip or Canopus ProCoder on a PC or Compressor on a Mac - again, as recommended above. Progressive seems to be more fussy than interlaced, but there are workflows that work.

At the end of the day, you may still prefer your old DVX for SD production and there will be other people that share your view. The work flow is certainly simpler. However, many other professionals (and amateurs like myself) find the XH-A1 a very usable, versatile camera that gives remarkably good results. You will even find experienced producers who prefer the XH-A1 to a 2/3" Sony DSR DVcam for SD DVD production.

[Luis Rolo]

I finally managed to make good down-conversions in fcp.
Tried many ways and many codecs and i found out the problem.
Try this: Edit 1080f and at the end put the final result in a square pixel SD uncompressed or prores sequence (rendering set to best). Export using "current settings" as a self contained movie.
Make your new beautiful DVD...

One problem was down-converting directly to anamorphic SD. Converting first to square-pixel SD solved the problem.
The other was the DV codec. I don't know if this is correct, but the DV codec seems always interlaced. Even with progressive footage the signal is interlaced (but with the progressive cadence). So avoid it at any cost.

The results are perfect, at least for me.

L.R.

[Pavel Tomanec]

Luis, I have a question what did you do after you exported as SD square pixels from FCP before burning your DVD? Did you go directly to DVD Studio Pro?

Thanks,
Pavel